Uplink Activity Wednesday, November 16th 2005

[Smith P.]

Scott, the real fact is how the 8PSK transponders WORKING, not the words from horse's mouth .

I can't belive my ears - you're an apologet of Dish propaganda !

 

[Devil24]

I really think you guys need to chill out... wow!!!

Changes will come, new channels will be available... but we have to be patient.

I respect and agree with Scott's opinion. It's been only a couple of days since this new testing was first noticed and everybody (and their moms) around here is going crazy... we need to relax and wait... I'm sure Charlie will bring us more than a few surprises during the following weeks and before year's end.

 

[CKNA]

While this is true to a point, I am told that this is a software upgrade to a new version of 8 PSK turbo (Much like when you had Analog modems and were able to update them to 56k via a software update)

I am told that all HD receivers are getting a software upgrade to support this new version of 8PSK turbo within a week.


Is this true or not I don't know. I am only reporting what I am being told.

The only thing thing I may see them do is change FEC to something like 3/4 as 8psk was always turbo coded.

 

[CKNA]

I couldn't find a good thread about that Tech Chat here...what was the deal? There was a link to another thread that I posted in for a while before I realized it was on "the other guys".

Anyway, I kept asking for confirmation of this over there. (Or if Turbo was new, was the 40% improvement over QPSK or 8PSK?) The thread consisted of a few people like me asking for some more tech details, and a bunch of people saying "They're going to convert HD to 8PSK!" and "Will they replace my 811 with an 8PSK receiver?" The actual experts never showed.

The fact that Scott G and other "big dogs" (and not just the usual idiots) continue to dispute this means there will continue to be confusion. The supposed "8PSK-Turbo" software updates adds to the "stupid myth".

Personally speaking, my logic circuits tend to agree with you. But I know and trust Scott G and others, and I don't know you, so I tend to believe him.

So, the confusion will continue. I don't really care as long as they turn 'em on soon.

It's nice how these forums bring together people with different areas of expertise. I know a lot about creating digital video, but nothing about transmitting it. I had just finished explaining pixel aspect ratios to Hokienginer in another thread and was thinking "this guy can't be an engineer!" Then I come to another thread and he's schooling me on Forward Error Correction. But that can cause problems...I sometimes trust someone who helped me on one topic, and it turns out later they were dead wrong on a different topic.

I am not looking for anybody to believe me. I know Scott G and he just passes along what he was told by Dish. The problem is that whoever said this at Dish either does not know or says wrong info on purpose.

 

[richmert]

I am not looking for anybody to believe me. I know Scott G and he just passes along what he was told by Dish. The problem is that whoever said this at Dish either does not know or says wrong info on purpose.

i also used to believe that scott simply passed what he knew. as a matter of fact i was at dbstalk reading scott a year or two ago and i never faulted him for leaving and forming another site BUT......... it was not so long ago that i started a thread that said the wall street journal reported that the VOOM satellite was for sale and that E* was interested in buying it. All i was doing was reporting the WSJ and the thread got like 3000 hits in a day or two. suddenly the thread was renamed and moved to a different forum and the title was RUMOR ONLY

this kind of COOL AID VOOM attitude is what Scott and all the others are about here. when i want facts i go to dbstalk or avsforum. the facts are maniputated here and my VOOM post is proof.

 

[HokieEngineer]

Whoa now buddy. I'm not sure what happened in the past, but you seem to have an axe to grind.

Somehow I bet this whole "8psk turbo code" deal got hyped up at dish, thus they pass these "upgraded to support" words around. Its really no big deal. I just caution people from thinking that Dish somehow found the holy grail of the satellite world. I will eat a big plate of crow if they improve their transponder data rate 30% over the existing 8psk modulation.

So, maybe we can drop the whole parsing words and what "turbo" means. I've been a part of it, so from now on, you wont hear anymore on it from me.

I think larger questions need to be asked. Such as, the new Voom channels on 61.5 were added onto 8psk transponders. The new Voom channels on 129 have been added to qpsk transponders! That is a step BACKWARDS actually. Now, we know they can do 8psk on 129. Is this, as Scott guessed, just them firing up the new equipment at the uplink? They haven't fully configured it yet? Or... as I might throw out for you guys to chew on... The bird at 129, Echostar 5... is not a fully functional satellite. Could it be that it will not support anymore 8psk transponders? Current data rates for the voom channels hover between 10-12Mbit/s, and they only have two HD channels per transponder.

 

[richmert]

Whoa now buddy. I'm not sure what happened in the past, but you seem to have an axe to grind.

no need to patronize me. i admit that this may not be the thread to talk about the past but when i here someone say scott only speaks the truth i need to tell my story. just ignore me and go on with your 8psk tc conversation.
oh and dont call me buddy. i am not your buddy. i dont even know you. you should really try to find the other thread before you pretend to be my buddy. thanks anyway though. i cant have enough buddies.

 

[JohnH]

goaliebob's next update will have info about a rethink of the WB Distant Networks situation.

 

[riffjim4069]

I think this be the most popular Uplink Activity report ever. Can't wait to read the next one.

 

[dont24]

MPEG2 East Coast High Definition Locals.

I hope this is what they are. With a 942 on the way, maybe I can drop Comcast and return their HD DVR. Shelling out way to much cash on a monthly basis for programming services

 

[waltinvt]

Some thoughts on HD DNS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Greczkowski
MPEG2 East Coast High Definition Locals.

I hope this is what they are. With a 942 on the way, maybe I can drop Comcast and return their HD DVR. Shelling out way to much cash on a monthly basis for programming services

Let's talk about the idea of Dish putting up the other 3 HD DNS (and move this to another thread if appropiate).

"E" could have done what "D" did last year in regards to HD DNS (allow about 1% of viewers to receive them) but chose not to. When the '04 SHVERA didn't play out exactly as they'd hoped I think they decided it wasn't worth the bandwidth for HD nets unless they could provide them to more viewers.

What would be different now? Despite what the FCC was mandated to do, they still haven't defined a "white area" for determing the "digitally unserved". COrrect me if I'm wrong but I thought there was a one year deadline on that which would be early Dec - right?

Maybe for some reason "E" now figures it can get away with offering more viewers the HD DNS. I don't think they'd be bothering otherwise.

 

[John Kotches]

In response to goaliebob:

Past history of dish software testing, dish doesnt have a veary good track record on this.. Ie take a look at the 921 software and the 942 untill recently. And that was even with alpha and beta testing. Major Bugs were still present.

Welcome to the world of software engineering; It happens. Guess what, just about everything with software has bugs. Most of 'em are latent, meaning they might not even be uncovered until you find the right conditions.

There is no way for Dish to test every possible combination when you throw in OTA HD to the mix. Once that hits, all bets are off. Guess what, that's where the vast majority of problems for the HD receivers come from. Not from core satellite technology that Dish controls, but rather from OTA HD that Dish does not.

History has showed us that the channels that appear on these tables generally do appear. there have been some that has been on the tables to be taken off of months later. Generally that was becasue of contract negotations. In this case, Echostar has an agreement with voom months prior to this weeks updates. Also the recivers need acurate system tables as that is how the revciver tells what channels are what and other general information. Dish wouldnt release channels on the inaccurate system tables to the general public because that would cause problems.

Get back to me when we have these channels in our channel guides. Until then, they are test uplinks and subject to change. When the channels are GA, as opposed to test mode which someone finds by sniffing packets (which is basically what you're doing) that's when any of this is gold.

I think you missed the point here.. my point is how buggy the 921 is and dish engenerring has not fixed the problems with that reciver. Thus leaving the coustomers who payed over 1000 for this reciver high and dry. I can tell you dont have a 921. as you would have understood my point. Also by that time that a mpg4 dvr comes out the deal that they offer 921 owners would allso apply to 942 owners as were all in the same boat for mpg4. 921 owners really got the shaft on that one.

No, I don't have a 921. I think the price is too high for a device that doesn't have a usable way to archive off content, and its space is way too limited. Until I can archive content the way I want, and build a library of HD movies I'm not going to purchase an HD-DVR. I can certainly afford a 921, but what's the point if I'm constantly having to delete material?

The 921 is still working, and its now going to continue working for quite a bit longer than was previously anticipated. This will remain true until realtime MPEG-4 encoding is getting the encoding efficiency that E* is looking for. So you're getting even more lifetime out of a product you're "being shafted on". The longer it works and continues to receive all of the HD content available the less it looks like you're "being shafted" and rather just whining about it. What's it been, around two years and counting now?

Also, early adopters always pay the highest price. It was your decision to adopt early and at that price. Did Dish make you buy the product?

I think having the lack of knowledge about the operations of the company you own is a veary bad thing. With out the proper knowledge someone can undermine you in a moment and before you know it the companys gone down the toobs.. There is a way of having the knowledge of your company with out micormanaging. A CEO's job is about 80 percent listing and 20% doing work. It is a CEO's ultimate responceablity to see that company succeed. If you dont have the knowledge of what your company is doing or how there doing it you cant run a company efficantly.. Dish network can be ran alot more efficantly but at the current moment the company is not. I know from personal experiance. The lower level employees do the actuall work that is set out by top management. middle managment supervises these employees.

Minutiae is minute details. That's stuff way below what a CEO should be bothering with. The fact that you responded back about it makes me wonder if you know the meaning of the word. Usually when Charlie's wrong on a chat, it's about this type of stuff, and it's stuff I'd be worried about him spending much of his time on. He's got other things to take care of as CEO.

You left off the first layer of management in your corporate layout. There's entry level management that handles the rank and file employees.

 

[John Kotches]

If one thinks of Scott as more of a reporter, then that's probably a better description of his role. He's only as good as the source of his information on any given report.

Assuming he reports the information he's given accurately (I have no way of telling if he does or not), then it's simply a matter of seeing if it comes to pass or not. If it does, it was a good tip, if not obviously it wasn't

To expect 100% accuracy, especially if a deal isn't signed, sealed and delivered before it's leaked to Scott isn't realistic.

Best,

 

[waltinvt]

<snip>.....Assuming he reports the information he's given accurately (I have no way of telling if he does or not), then it's simply a matter of seeing if it comes to pass or not. If it does, it was a good tip, if not obviously it wasn't

There's no doubt in my military mind (old expression only you vets will understand) that Scott is as straight as an arrow with respect to what he reports to us. That's not to say he doesn't get fed erroronuos info sometimes but he's always been quick to let us know when that's happened.

I think he has to walk a fine line sometimes between what he can "leak" here versus his commitment to his sources. I don't envy him with that. I'm a vet from military intelligence (more years ago than I care to disclose) and I know there are times you'd love to say things but can't. Also, it's not always easy to know when you're being "manipulated" by your sources.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

i also used to believe that scott simply passed what he knew. as a matter of fact i was at dbstalk reading scott a year or two ago and i never faulted him for leaving and forming another site BUT......... it was not so long ago that i started a thread that said the wall street journal reported that the VOOM satellite was for sale and that E* was interested in buying it. All i was doing was reporting the WSJ and the thread got like 3000 hits in a day or two. suddenly the thread was renamed and moved to a different forum and the title was RUMOR ONLY

this kind of COOL AID VOOM attitude is what Scott and all the others are about here. when i want facts i go to dbstalk or avsforum. the facts are maniputated here and my VOOM post is proof.

I believe we should get some facts straight here. First I don't know of the thread you speak about but I should let you know that I really had nothing to do with the VOOM forum, that was run by Sean Mota and Ilya, it was their baby to run as they saw fit and they did a great job (kind of like out FTA forum which Iceberg and PSB run) I myself did not move or rename anything.

Secondly a lot of the stuff you were reading in the press (especially the Wall Street Journal) was COMING FROM SATELLITEGUYS, Peter Grant from the Wall Street Journal contacted me on several occasions for VOOM news and he reported many of the items I told him (As did many other national press including Fox News, MSNBC, USA Today, MultiChannel News, TV Week and others)

Third I broke a lot of news about VOOM (and other things) that VOOM and Dish Network did not want you to know, in fact it is a fact that I broke the news that the VOOM channels were coming to Dish Network 4 days before the deal was officially announced. NO OTHER SITE REPORTED THIS.

Fourth, I am not a mouthpiece for Dish Network, in fact I would say I say a LOT that they would rather I not say, and I also know for a fact that all the information that we are discussing in this very thread they do not want known by the public. I also KNOW that since this thread has been online Dish Network has been getting calls from customers why they can't see the new VOOM channels yet, and when they are asked how they found out this information I am told the customer says that they saw it on SatelliteGuys.

Another fact is when I first started SatelliteGuys I was contacted by a Vice President of Dish Network asking me to not allow uplink reports from John H as Dish considered that information private and they also considered them hacking posts. I actually went along with them for a couple weeks until I learned about how John H got the information and I did not consider it hacking at all. Once I was properly educated on how it works I had no problem with it at all, and now I actually look forward reading the uplink reports.

I would say the other site is more a mouth piece for Dish Network then us, they will not mention anything and frown on speculation about Dish Network, try posting comments or negatvie opinions about a product such as the 921 or 942 and look how quickly the post goes away or is closed. Here at SatelliteGuys we give our members to speak their mind. We are not worried about offending anyone and believe that letting people tell it as they see it is best to help others make informed decissions about Satellite providers.

I am very proud of all the news which you have read here first at SatelliteGuys.US, I always have my ear to the group listening for new news to break to you. I will be the first to admit not everything pans out, but when you are hearing buzz from a few seperate sources you go with what you got and hope it pans out.

I am the first to admit I am not the most technical person in the world, I couldnt honestly tell you the difference between 8PSK and 8PSK Turbo.I am only reporting what I am hearing an the new big buzz word is 8PSK Turbo. Some of you guys like P Smith are saying this 8 PSK is the same one they have been using for a long time, The thing that has me stumped is if it is the same as it was why are they releasing new software to support it. So is there a change? I don't know is my answer. But I do know I will keep reporting what I know and what I find out.

Thats my view on things, I am proud to give folks a place to discuss this stuff and I look forward to reading whats coming from GoalieBob, John H, P Smith, HokieEngineer and others. I think its safe to say that we have some interesting stuff coming up, and I am looking forward to bringing it to you here at SatelliteGuys.US!

 

[mdonnelly]

Yeah, those VOOM Nazis did get a little carried away sometimes.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

For all the stuff that was going on at that time (There were litterally HUNDEREDS of News stories all coming out at the same time) they did a great job. I will be the first to admit some mistakes were made, but they did VERY well for being unpaid volunteers.

A lot of folks don't understand that we don't get paid for doing this.

 

[digiblur]

I think larger questions need to be asked. Such as, the new Voom channels on 61.5 were added onto 8psk transponders. The new Voom channels on 129 have been added to qpsk transponders! That is a step BACKWARDS actually. Now, we know they can do 8psk on 129. Is this, as Scott guessed, just them firing up the new equipment at the uplink? They haven't fully configured it yet? Or... as I might throw out for you guys to chew on... The bird at 129, Echostar 5... is not a fully functional satellite. Could it be that it will not support anymore 8psk transponders? Current data rates for the voom channels hover between 10-12Mbit/s, and they only have two HD channels per transponder.

I don't think this is true. I don't see why they couldn't fire up all the working transponders as 8PSK. Kind of like someone saying you can't use DVB on some of those old C-Band birds, which we know is not true.

 

[SummitAdvantageRetailer]

It must work as they added all those new HD channels up there.

I am sure we will be hearing a lot more about this in January.

In January? What's coming in January?!

 

[HookedOnTV]

I'm thinking maybe the 30% is going to come from switching the SD channels over from QPSK. Roughly they will free up one in four transponders. That could help a lot in getting all national HD channels on either 110 or 119, leaving 129 and 61.5 for HD LIL's.

Dated December 2003... Turbo issue:

http://www.broadcom.com/press/release.php?id=473736

Broadcom's Advanced Satellite Communications Technology Selected By EchoStar's DISH Network™ Service
Advanced Modulation and Turbo Code Technology Deployed
In EchoStar's DISH Network High-Volume Set-Top Box Product Line
IRVINE, Calif., Dec. 1 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Broadcom Corporation (Nasdaq: BRCM), a leading provider of silicon solutions enabling broadband communications, today announced that EchoStar Communications Corp. (Nasdaq: DISH) is using Broadcom's 8PSK (Phase Shift Keying) turbo code technology across EchoStar's newest line of DISH Network™ satellite TV receivers, including the DISH 111, DISH 311, DISH 322, Dish Player-DVR 522, DISH 811 and Dish Player-DVR 921 products.

Broadcom's 8PSK turbo code is an advanced modulation and coding technology that increases information throughput by 35 percent in a given bandwidth or radio frequency link with no additional power requirements. This capability allows EchoStar's DISH Network to provide more programming services to subscribers using their current dish antennas. With the help of Broadcom® turbo code technology in DISH Network's new line of satellite set-top boxes, DISH Network hopes to expand the wide variety of available video and audio programming to include local stations for additional geographic areas, international programming and bandwidth-hungry, high-definition TV programming.

"Our customers want access to more channels and are increasingly requesting targeted programming and HDTV channels," said Mark Jackson, Senior Vice President of EchoStar Technologies Corporation. "Broadcom's turbo code technology enables us to deploy a field-proven solution meeting the technical performance that our service offering requires. We can provide our customers expanded services while continuing to provide them the variety and premium quality channels they have come to expect from DISH Network."

"The fact that EchoStar, one of the leading DBS service providers in the U.S, has begun to use our technology across its satellite receiver product line is a clear indication of Broadcom's ability to bring advanced technology solutions to the cost-conscious consumer electronics market," said Daniel A. Marotta, Vice President of Broadcom's Broadband Communications Group. "We've invested over 3 years of effort working with EchoStar to take our 8PSK turbo code solution from the initial specification to a rigorously tested production ready product. It is satisfying to see our solution going into volume deployments today which allow EchoStar to provide even more services to their DISH Network customers."

Product Features

The BCM4500 is a highly integrated, all-digital satellite receiver that supports BPSK, QPSK, and 8PSK modulation, operating with both advanced modulation satellite systems and legacy QPSK systems. The advanced modulation turbo-code forward error correction (FEC) decoder delivers extremely high performance, approaching theoretical capacity limits, with no requirement for external RAM. This versatile receiver provides full variable rate operation from 1-30 Mbaud, providing multiple operating points for optimal system deployment. Other features include an integrated microcontroller for configuration, acquisition and performance monitoring, and a host interface that operates via a high-level application programmers' interface to reduce host software development time and simplify system integration.

The BCM3440 Direct Conversion Satellite Tuner delivers superior performance for the direct broadcast satellite market, and offers all the advantages of standard logic CMOS process. The fact that the BCM3440 is fabricated in CMOS technology is significant because it is a widely available, cost-effective technology and provides a path for integration with other Broadcom satellite products.

The BCM4500/BCM3440 chipset is available and is priced at $20 for volume quantities. The BCM3440 is packaged in a 48-pin TQFP, while the BCM4500 is offered in a 128-pin MQFP. The BCM94500 Advanced Modulation reference design, which integrates the chipset, is available today for system evaluation, test and design.

About Broadcom

Broadcom Corporation is a leading provider of highly integrated silicon solutions that enable broadband communications and networking of voice, video and data services. Using proprietary technologies and advanced design methodologies, Broadcom designs, develops and supplies complete system-on-a- chip solutions and related hardware and software applications for every major broadband communications market. Our diverse product portfolio includes solutions for digital cable and satellite set-top boxes; cable and DSL modems and residential gateways; high-speed transmission and switching for local, metropolitan, wide area and storage networking; home and wireless networking; cellular and terrestrial wireless communications; Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) gateway and telephony systems; broadband network processors; and SystemI/O™ server solutions. These technologies and products support our core mission: Connecting everything®.

Broadcom is headquartered in Irvine, Calif., and may be contacted at 1-949-450-8700 or at www.broadcom.com .

Safe Harbor Statement under the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995:

All statements included or incorporated by reference in this release, other than statements or characterizations of historical fact, are forward- looking statements. These forward-looking statements are based on our current expectations, estimates and projections about our industry, management's beliefs, and certain assumptions made by us, all of which are subject to change. Forward-looking statements can often be identified by words such as "anticipates," "expects," "intends," "plans," "predicts," "believes," "seeks," "estimates," "may," "will," "should," "would," "could," "potential," "continue," similar expressions, and variations or negatives of these words. These forward-looking statements are not guarantees of future results and are subject to risks, uncertainties and assumptions that could cause our actual results to differ materially and adversely from those expressed in any forward-looking statement.

Important factors that may cause such a difference for Broadcom in connection with the BCM3440, BCM4500 and BCM94500 products include, but are not limited to, general economic and political conditions and specific conditions in the markets we address, including the continuing significant economic slowdown and volatility in the technology sector and semiconductor industry, trends in the broadband communications markets in various geographic regions, and possible disruption in commercial activities related to terrorist activity or armed conflict in the United States and other locations; the rate at which our present and future customers and end-users adopt Broadcom's technologies and products in the markets for satellite set-top box applications; delays in the adoption and acceptance of industry standards in those markets; competitive pressures and other factors such as the qualification, availability and pricing of competing products and technologies and the resulting effects on sales and pricing of our products; our ability to retain and hire key executives, technical personnel and other employees in the numbers, with the capabilities, and at the compensation levels needed to implement our business and product plans; the availability and pricing of third party semiconductor foundry and assembly capacity and raw materials; fluctuations in the manufacturing yields of our third party semiconductor foundries and other problems or delays in the fabrication, assembly, testing or delivery of our products; the risks of producing products with new suppliers and at new fabrication and assembly facilities; the timing, rescheduling or cancellation of significant customer orders and our ability, as well as the availability of our customers, to manage inventory; the loss of a key customer; our ability to specify, develop or acquire, complete, introduce, market and transition to volume production new products and technologies in a timely manner; the timing of customer-industry qualification and certification of our products and the risks of non-qualification or non- certification; the volume of our product sales and pricing concessions on volume sales; the effects of new and emerging technologies; changes in our product or customer mix; intellectual property disputes and customer indemnification claims and other types of litigation risk; problems or delays that we may face in shifting our products to smaller geometry process technologies and in achieving higher levels of design integration; the quality of our products and any remediation costs; the effectiveness of our expense and product cost control and reduction efforts; the risks and uncertainties associated with our international operations, particularly in light of recent events; the effects of natural disasters, public health emergencies, international conflicts and other events beyond our control; the level of orders received that can be shipped in a fiscal quarter; and other factors.

Our Annual Report on Form 10-K, subsequent Quarterly Reports on Form 10-Q, recent Current Reports on Form 8-K, and other Securities and Exchange Commission filings discuss the foregoing risks as well as other important risk factors that could contribute to such differences or otherwise affect our business, results of operations and financial condition. The forward-looking statements in this release speak only as of this date. We undertake no obligation to revise or update publicly any forward-looking statement for any reason.

Broadcom®, the pulse logo, Connecting everything® and SystemI/O™ are trademarks of Broadcom Corporation and/or its affiliates in the United States and certain other countries. EchoStar® and DISH Network™ are trademarks of EchoStar Communications Corporation. All other trademarks mentioned are the property of their respective owners.

Broadcom Trade Press Contact
Laura Brandlin
Director of Marketing Communications
949-926-5108
lbrandlin@broadcom.com

Broadcom Trade Press Contact
Bill Blanning
Sr. Director, Corporate Communications
949-926-5555
blanning@broadcom.com

Broadcom Technical Contact
Stuart Thomson
Product Line Manager
949-926-6215
sthomson@broadcom.com

Broadcom Investors Relations Contact
T. Peter Andrew
Sr. Director, Investor Relations
949-926-5663
tpandrew@broadcom.com

SOURCE Broadcom Corporation
-0- 12/01/2003