Updated: Court blocks Permanent Injuction ordering DISH DVRs disabled

[ralfyguy]

IMHO one of four scenarios will happen:

1) E* buys TIVO. Period.

2) If Charlie is tired of his company getting sued, he sells to D*.

3) Charlie pays the fine and the same fee gets applied that D* pays to TIVO.

4) Charlie stays stubborn and DVR's get shut off, means subs get mad and cancel - E* goes broke like VOOM - D* or TIVO buy their sats.

I will NOT go to TIVO out of principle!

I will not stay with Dish, because theere will be just $6 less on the bill, but the whole reason I ever signed up with E* is completely eiminated. I might even sign up for DirecTV before the shutdown, because millions of people are gonna run over to D*, and they'll raise the prices for their stuff, because they know many more people are coming. They won't even have enough DVR's in stock for all.

 

[ralfyguy]

The ViP622 is not mentioned in the ruling. It lists all DVR's, including the 942, but not the 622. WHY?

 

[minorthr]

The ViP622 is not mentioned in the ruling. It lists all DVR's, including the 942, but not the 622. WHY?

Maybe that wasn't out yet when the suit was filed or the judgement was awarded. Or maybe E* changed the way the 622 works so it didn't violate the patent.

I also love this line from E* "We are pleased the Court concluded EchoStar did not act in bad faith and did not copy Tivo's technology, and we intend to continue our vigorous defense of this case." Really did not copy tivo's technology then why did he order you to pay $90 million just because he can

 

[foghorn2]

Charlie: The Man and His Dream...GM replaced in the Tucker tale by bitter tech companies finding themselves eclipsed by growing upstart Dish.

This definitely smells of the collusion of some anti-competition media parties. Maybe its Rupert pulling strings w/ his buds in Washington so Charlie will be forced to consider that buy-out deal?

Poltical? Sounds jike JR Ewing tactics in Texas to me!

Anti-Competition media parties are the biggest socialists in our country.

 

[Getut]

This is the type of thing that drives me insane and also why I am the tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist type of guy. I HATE when companies make you have a live connection to a device in your home.

I don't care what Echostar did or even if they infringed on a patent. They can pay their fines and licensing fees or whatever, but the mere FACT that they even have ABILITY to disable equipment sitting in MY home just roasts me beyond belief. This is perfect rallying cry for people like me who say that fair use rules should be mandated and companies should have NO RIGHT to know (through monitoring, or active links, or product activation), or do, or be connected to any device or software in a persons home. Plain and simple, a persons home is and should be their domain and we should have protections enforced by law if companies even THOUGHT about trying it.

 

[zman]

Maybe I am missing something but didn't TIVO steal most of this technology from other players already in the market including Replay and free linux software?

The real problem we are facing here is an outdated patent office that gives out patents to any company willing to pay the money, whether the idea is new/unique or not.

If Tivo is allowed to continue, every pc sold will be fair game, especially if it includes a video capture card and is capable of multitasking. I do remember however, buying a video capture/recording card from creative labs years ago, way before Tivo even existed. Maybe Creative Labs should sue TIVO. Dang, am getting a headache just thinking of all the possiblities.

 

[JeremyL]

Does this judge or TIVO really think if they shut off our DVR's we're all going to run out and buy TIVO's? I would think a great many of us would avoid TIVO like a plague just because of this lawsuit. I know I will!

So TIVO's poor marketing and business decisions put it on the edge of going under. Granted, they created the best way for DVR software to operate. Dish comes along and says - hey, this really is the best software, let's write our own code that's similar and works just as well, if not better. TIVO, unable to compete in the market, seeks relief from the courts to stay in business. Seems like the typical mindset in this country today - if you can't beat 'em, sue 'em!

 

[foghorn2]

And sue them in Texas? Tivo, living off lawsuits. You'd figure the good people in Texas would not allow this

Someone should look into the judge's other rulings. One guy should not determine millions of consumers ability to use their service and equipment.

This whole thing smells really fishy and political to me.

 

[foghorn2]

.....Dish comes along and says - hey, this really is the best software, let's write our own code that's similar and works just as well, if not better..... !

Microsoft did it, why can't Dish?

 

[Sevenfeet]

Maybe I am missing something but didn't TIVO steal most of this technology from other players already in the market including Replay and free linux software?

The real problem we are facing here is an outdated patent office that gives out patents to any company willing to pay the money, whether the idea is new/unique or not.

If Tivo is allowed to continue, every pc sold will be fair game, especially if it includes a video capture card and is capable of multitasking. I do remember however, buying a video capture/recording card from creative labs years ago, way before Tivo even existed. Maybe Creative Labs should sue TIVO. Dang, am getting a headache just thinking of all the possiblities.

Uh no. Tivo was a legitimate pioneer in this business, about the same time as Replay. The legal point is that Tivo was first to the patent office and has been able to successfully defend that position against Replay years ago (and where is Replay now?). Things like MythTV didn't come around until later. And the fact that Tivo is dependant on Linux itself is irrelevant in this case. Simple video capture on PCs goes back nearly 20 years, but can you really say that those products were functional DVRs? No.

The idea of doing a DVR, as well as a successful implementation is not a trivial thing, especially 9 years ago when development first started. Sure it's been copied, but I think Tivo invented a category and has a right to defend its intellectual property. Do I think the current patent system is broken and bad companies run amok? Of course. But this is one case I think that Tivo has a case and they have certainly been mostly successful convincing the courts of that too.

 

[Hall]

And sue them in Texas? Tivo, living off lawsuits. You'd figure the good people in Texas would not allow this

I recall when this suit first came about and the reason this town in Texas was chosen was explained. Can't recall what it was now though.... That was easy:

It will be a surprise to experienced patent litigators across the country if TiVo does not prevail in its jury trial against EchoStar this month in Marshall, Texas, said Bradford P. Lyerla, intellectual property attorney and partner with Marshall, Gerstein & Borun, an IP-specialty firm based in Chicago.

That is not because the merits of the case are so obviously favorable to TiVo. Rather it is because plaintiffs enjoy the advantage in a patent jury trial. Lyerla pointed to recent statistics for the Eastern District of Texas -- where Marshall is located -- that show that juries there find for plaintiffs in patent cases in about eight out of 10 trials.

http://www.ecommercetimes.com/story/49646.html​

 

[Sevenfeet]

Does this judge or TIVO really think if they shut off our DVR's we're all going to run out and buy TIVO's? I would think a great many of us would avoid TIVO like a plague just because of this lawsuit. I know I will!

So TIVO's poor marketing and business decisions put it on the edge of going under. Granted, they created the best way for DVR software to operate. Dish comes along and says - hey, this really is the best software, let's write our own code that's similar and works just as well, if not better. TIVO, unable to compete in the market, seeks relief from the courts to stay in business. Seems like the typical mindset in this country today - if you can't beat 'em, sue 'em!

Having customers "run back to Tivo" as a result of this injunction isn't the point. The point is E* refusing to pay Tivo money for a patent lawsuit, nothing more. If you don't pay, you can't play.

Granted, Tivo has made some pretty dumb business decisions over the last decade. But some factors are out of their control. In a world where digital TV will soon rule, does Tivo control any of the distribution medias? Do they own a satellite company, major company company, or FIOS utility? No. Those guys control everything on their network which leaves Tivo users with standalone players to add devices that are strictly analog. Only the DirecTivos were different and D* has decided to go in a different direction figuring it was cheaper in the long run to come up with their own design than to pay Tivo licensing fees. Since Tivo and D* were already in a business relationship, D* protected themselves from the patent problem. Comcast has a similar arrangement. That leaves E*, Time Warner and everyone else to deal with it.

 

[foghorn2]

Having customers "run back to Tivo" as a result of this injunction isn't the point. The point is E* refusing to pay Tivo money for a patent lawsuit, nothing more. If you don't pay, you can't play.

Granted, Tivo has made some pretty dumb business decisions over the last decade. But some factors are out of their control. In a world where digital TV will soon rule, does Tivo control any of the distribution medias? Do they own a satellite company, major company company, or FIOS utility? No. Those guys control everything on their network which leaves Tivo users with standalone players to add devices that are strictly analog. Only the DirecTivos were different and D* has decided to go in a different direction figuring it was cheaper in the long run to come up with their own design than to pay Tivo licensing fees. Since Tivo and D* were already in a business relationship, D* protected themselves from the patent problem. Comcast has a similar arrangement. That leaves E*, Time Warner and everyone else to deal with it.

The patent itself is so generic it should be revoked.

 

[RVD420]

I would not worry.

A deal will be reached if Dish does not get the injuction stayed pending appeal.

Worse case is Dish buys Tivo. We all know Dish has the money to buy Tivo. Heck they had the money to buy DirecTV. The only thing that stopped them was the DOJ and antitrust laws.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

I have received a few calls today from a few national media outlets but suprisingly have declined to comment at this time on it because I am not to well versed on the case other then knowing the basic facts.

While I would love to be on national tv and promote SatelliteGuys I don't want to go on TV and look like an uneducated moron.

 

[kingbiged]

Couldn't we just unplug the phone line for the effected DVR's?? Then a software update could not be completed?

 

[iafirebuff]

Software updates via the satellite signal.

 

[JohnH]

Well, someone said there is a poison pill. Could be quite expensive to buy and/or license the product.

 

[foghorn2]

I have received a few calls today from a few national media outlets but suprisingly have declined to comment at this time on it because I am not to well versed on the case other then knowing the basic facts.

While I would love to be on national tv and promote SatelliteGuys I don't want to go on TV and look like an uneducated moron.

Why not, the president can do that every time (Sorry off topic..)

This sure beats posts reguading HD-Lite! Looks like we are united after all.

 

[riffjim4069]

Tivo patents reeks of Amazon's "One-Click Shopping" patent that was later ruled as being too generic a concept to be afforded patent protection. I still say you people owe me gazillions for My "Breathing Air" patent.