Updated: Court blocks Permanent Injuction ordering DISH DVRs disabled
- Thread starter chaddux
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
- Replies 309
- Views 52K
Henry Ford didn't invent the automobile.
Credit for that goes to Nicolas Cugnot back in the 1770s. Ford didn't invent the internal combustion engine. Ford didn't invent the assembly line, nor was his company the first to use it. Ford was simply the first American company to use it on such a large scale. Ford didn't hold patents that he could have used to stop competing automakers.Like Bimson says, it's no coincidence that almost every DVR sold today implements the same "trick play" and DVR playback features that Tivo invented. We had hard drives and MPEG encoders years before the Tivo and ReplayTV came out, but Tivo was the first to introduce these ideas to the market. Tivo didn't just come up with the ideas, they said exactly how to do it. And they did it. And other companies like Dish copied exactly these features; not only did they copy the ideas, they copied the implementation.
There were other ways to accomplish some of what Tivo had done, but Tivo's method was by far the cheapest, and as a result, silicon vendors incorporated the technology into their chips to support the features in the way that Tivo had devised. To this day, Dish Network (and most of the DVR industry) uses inexpensive chips from Broadcom that were created with Tivo's implementation in mind.
Last edited:
Carts, horse and buggys, etc have had four wheels for centuries.
As far as the engine, I guess you forgot about people like Nicolaus August Otto, Rudolf Diesel, and Karl Benz. It's one thing to put four wheels on a cart. It's quite another to come up with something to make it run. Before Mr. Diesel and Karl Benz, we had large carts propelled by steam engines. The ideas and implementations of Mr. Diesel and Mr. Benz made automobiles practical, and both made millions in royalties on their patents.
Last edited:
No one here can know what Tivo might settle for. Sure they have a court order for $74M or $90M or whatever. But there is the threat of the 2nd lawsuit from Dish and Tivo might be perfectly happy to take $50M or $35M plus a signed DirecTV-like contract with E* and/or other concessions.
I do think E* has to put a settlement offer on the table at this point.
I do think E* has to put a settlement offer on the table at this point.
Judge rules Echostar MUST DISABLE ALL DVR's
WTF? Please tell me this is not going to happen.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060818/tv_nm/echostar_dc
LOS ANGELES (Hollywood Reporter) - A judge has ordered EchoStar to disable the digital video recorders used by several million subscribers to its Dish satellite TV service because they infringe on patents held by TiVo.
ADVERTISEMENT
Thursday's ruling from U.S. District Judge David Folsom in Marshall, Texas, demands that within 30 days EchoStar must basically render useless all but 192,708 of the DVR units it has deployed.
The decision comes four months after a jury ruled that EchoStar should pay TiVo $74.9 million because it willfully infringed TiVo patents that allow for the digital storage of TV programming.
The judge also denied EchoStar's request that the injunction be stayed pending appeal, making it difficult for EchoStar to continue offering its subscribers' DVR functionality without striking a quick licensing deal with TiVo or another DVR maker.
While the injunction battle clearly was won by TiVo, the scrappy pioneer of the DVR industry also was handed a loss Thursday when Folsom ruled against its request that the jury award be tripled. The judge, however, ordered EchoStar to pay an additional $5.4 million in interest payments and $10.3 million in supplemental damages, bringing the amount EchoStar owes TiVo to nearly $90 million.
NO BAD FAITH
In ruling against treble damages, Folsom noted that EchoStar was not allowed to present evidence that it received outside legal advice indicating that the DVRs it created did not infringe TiVo's patents. That EchoStar sought such advice before TiVo sued it "could demonstrate a lack of willfulness" on the part of EchoStar, the judge wrote in denying TiVo's request of treble damages.
"The evidence does not show the defendants acted in bad faith, nor does the jury's willfulness finding amount to a finding of bad faith," Folsom wrote.
In asking for an injunction, TiVo argued that, while it would become extinct if unable to protect its patents and sell its DVRs, EchoStar's primary business of satellite TV transmissions does not depend on its ability to offer DVRs.
EchoStar claimed, among other arguments, that TiVo's motive in filing a lawsuit was to gain additional leverage over EchoStar and other prospective business partners in order to strike lucrative licensing deals.
The vast majority of TiVo subscribers, in fact, come by way of a licensing agreement with EchoStar competitor DirecTV. Another agreement with cable giant Comcast Corp. won't bear fruit until later this year, and TiVo has had trouble lining up other big players in the pay TV market, who mostly have been offering their customers generic DVRs.
Siding with TiVo, Folsom wrote that one thing both companies agreed on is that DVR customers are "sticky," meaning that once they obtain a DVR they stick with it, so business that TiVo has been losing to EchoStar might not be recovered without a ruling of infringement.
'CRITICAL TIME'
TiVo, the judge wrote, "is losing market share at a critical time in the market's development -- market share that it will not have the same opportunity to capture once the market matures."
EchoStar also claimed that the timing of TiVo's lawsuit -- several years after EchoStar began selling DVRs -- amounted to proof that it was not suffering irreparable injury. Folsom, though, noted that TiVo hadn't sued EchoStar sooner because it was trying to enter into a business deal with it.
EchoStar also said an injunction would unduly hurt its business, an argument Folsom was not entirely unsympathetic to -- though, again, he came down on the side of TiVo.
"Although the injunction will likely result in some degree of customer loss and will impact (EchoStar's) ability to compete in the market, (EchoStar) will not be irreparably harmed," he wrote.
Folsom's ruling was filed after the close of regular and after-hours trading on Wall Street, so it did not affect the share prices of EchoStar and TiVo. When TiVo won its jury trial in April, its shares moved up 23 percent in after-hours trading, though the stock has since given back much of that gain.
TiVo shares closed up fractionally Thursday to $6.49, while EchoStar shares fell 1.1 percent to $32.75.
Reuters/Hollywood Reporter
WTF? Please tell me this is not going to happen.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060818/tv_nm/echostar_dc
LOS ANGELES (Hollywood Reporter) - A judge has ordered EchoStar to disable the digital video recorders used by several million subscribers to its Dish satellite TV service because they infringe on patents held by TiVo.
ADVERTISEMENT
Thursday's ruling from U.S. District Judge David Folsom in Marshall, Texas, demands that within 30 days EchoStar must basically render useless all but 192,708 of the DVR units it has deployed.
The decision comes four months after a jury ruled that EchoStar should pay TiVo $74.9 million because it willfully infringed TiVo patents that allow for the digital storage of TV programming.
The judge also denied EchoStar's request that the injunction be stayed pending appeal, making it difficult for EchoStar to continue offering its subscribers' DVR functionality without striking a quick licensing deal with TiVo or another DVR maker.
While the injunction battle clearly was won by TiVo, the scrappy pioneer of the DVR industry also was handed a loss Thursday when Folsom ruled against its request that the jury award be tripled. The judge, however, ordered EchoStar to pay an additional $5.4 million in interest payments and $10.3 million in supplemental damages, bringing the amount EchoStar owes TiVo to nearly $90 million.
NO BAD FAITH
In ruling against treble damages, Folsom noted that EchoStar was not allowed to present evidence that it received outside legal advice indicating that the DVRs it created did not infringe TiVo's patents. That EchoStar sought such advice before TiVo sued it "could demonstrate a lack of willfulness" on the part of EchoStar, the judge wrote in denying TiVo's request of treble damages.
"The evidence does not show the defendants acted in bad faith, nor does the jury's willfulness finding amount to a finding of bad faith," Folsom wrote.
In asking for an injunction, TiVo argued that, while it would become extinct if unable to protect its patents and sell its DVRs, EchoStar's primary business of satellite TV transmissions does not depend on its ability to offer DVRs.
EchoStar claimed, among other arguments, that TiVo's motive in filing a lawsuit was to gain additional leverage over EchoStar and other prospective business partners in order to strike lucrative licensing deals.
The vast majority of TiVo subscribers, in fact, come by way of a licensing agreement with EchoStar competitor DirecTV. Another agreement with cable giant Comcast Corp. won't bear fruit until later this year, and TiVo has had trouble lining up other big players in the pay TV market, who mostly have been offering their customers generic DVRs.
Siding with TiVo, Folsom wrote that one thing both companies agreed on is that DVR customers are "sticky," meaning that once they obtain a DVR they stick with it, so business that TiVo has been losing to EchoStar might not be recovered without a ruling of infringement.
'CRITICAL TIME'
TiVo, the judge wrote, "is losing market share at a critical time in the market's development -- market share that it will not have the same opportunity to capture once the market matures."
EchoStar also claimed that the timing of TiVo's lawsuit -- several years after EchoStar began selling DVRs -- amounted to proof that it was not suffering irreparable injury. Folsom, though, noted that TiVo hadn't sued EchoStar sooner because it was trying to enter into a business deal with it.
EchoStar also said an injunction would unduly hurt its business, an argument Folsom was not entirely unsympathetic to -- though, again, he came down on the side of TiVo.
"Although the injunction will likely result in some degree of customer loss and will impact (EchoStar's) ability to compete in the market, (EchoStar) will not be irreparably harmed," he wrote.
Folsom's ruling was filed after the close of regular and after-hours trading on Wall Street, so it did not affect the share prices of EchoStar and TiVo. When TiVo won its jury trial in April, its shares moved up 23 percent in after-hours trading, though the stock has since given back much of that gain.
TiVo shares closed up fractionally Thursday to $6.49, while EchoStar shares fell 1.1 percent to $32.75.
Reuters/Hollywood Reporter
holy sh*t! just pond dish into the ground! one case after the other. they are totally against dish! this sucks! dish cannot possibly with stand too much more. can they? and these jury member don't have a dvr? i think dish's dvr is very generic to me. isn't this black mail? guess our dvr's are worth a lot more now. how is it possible to disable the dvr? i have try-ed several before putting it on my account. some didn't even have the smart card and all worked!
No way E* will turn off their DVRs, can you imagine the FLOOD of calls and not to mention the bad press they'd receive... it would do them much harm. They will take it to the wire, Tivo will take the money they get from E* and call it a day, Tivo is in dire need of money so they'll not argue. I still think the whole thing is lame and the patent system is all wrong.
Disabling the DVR functions would just be a software update and an account update in that obviously they wouldn't continue to charge the DVR service fee. I strongly doubt that the case will hold up because hard drive recording has been around for longer than Tivo, but who knows in this wonderfully regulated "free" market economy? I'm sure further information will be available beyond that post in the next few days. My guess is that it will be tied up in appeals for much longer than the latest ruling. Also, what about all the cable companies who, unlike DirectTV, have non-Tivo DVRs and aren't a part of this lawsuit? It all seems pretty fishy that both this and the Distant Networks are hitting at the same time as the company is experiencing incredible growth.
Charlie: The Man and His Dream...GM replaced in the Tucker tale by bitter tech companies finding themselves eclipsed by growing upstart Dish.
This definitely smells of the collusion of some anti-competition media parties. Maybe its Rupert pulling strings w/ his buds in Washington so Charlie will be forced to consider that buy-out deal?
This definitely smells of the collusion of some anti-competition media parties. Maybe its Rupert pulling strings w/ his buds in Washington so Charlie will be forced to consider that buy-out deal?
that would be outstanding if dish could acquire tivo. if they fight it out can tivo or dish hold out till spring? dish couldn't without the dvr. and tivo needs money now! i think the patent is illegal. the dvr is generic enough to me. if it found future recordings on its own then that's tivo to me. what about these dam jury members non of them have a dvr?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EchoStar Asks Federal Court to Stay Texas Injunction
ENGLEWOOD, Colo., Aug 18, 2006 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- EchoStar Communications Corporation (NasdaqISH) issued the following statement regarding recent developments in the Tivo Inc. v. EchoStar Communications Corp. lawsuit:
"This morning, EchoStar will ask the Federal Circuit Court of Appeals to block an injunction issued by a Texas Court yesterday, while EchoStar appeals that decision. The Texas judge did not grant treble damages or attorney fees to Tivo, but he did let stand the jury decision that EchoStar digital video recorders infringe a Tivo patent, and immediately enjoined continued sale of allegedly infringing DVRs. The injunction would also require that allegedly infringing DVRs in consumer homes be shut off within 30 days.
We are pleased the Court concluded EchoStar did not act in bad faith and did not copy Tivo's technology, and we intend to continue our vigorous defense of this case. We believe that, for a number of reasons, the Texas Court should be reversed in all other respects on appeal. We also continue to work on modifications to our new DVRs, and to our DVRs in the field, intended to avoid future infringement. Existing DISH Network customers with DVRs are not immediately impacted by these recent developments, and we will keep consumers informed as events develop. We hope to have additional information for our customers very soon."
About EchoStar
EchoStar Communications Corporation (NasdaqISH) serves more than 12.46 million satellite TV customers through its DISH Network(TM), the fastest growing U.S. provider of advanced digital television services in the last five years. DISH Network offers hundreds of video and audio channels, Interactive TV, HDTV, sports and international programming, together with professional installation and 24-hour customer service.
SOURCE: EchoStar Communications Corporation
For EchoStar Communications Corporation
Kathie Gonzalez, 720-514-5351
press@echostar.com
EchoStar Asks Federal Court to Stay Texas Injunction
ENGLEWOOD, Colo., Aug 18, 2006 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- EchoStar Communications Corporation (Nasdaq
ISH) issued the following statement regarding recent developments in the Tivo Inc. v. EchoStar Communications Corp. lawsuit: "This morning, EchoStar will ask the Federal Circuit Court of Appeals to block an injunction issued by a Texas Court yesterday, while EchoStar appeals that decision. The Texas judge did not grant treble damages or attorney fees to Tivo, but he did let stand the jury decision that EchoStar digital video recorders infringe a Tivo patent, and immediately enjoined continued sale of allegedly infringing DVRs. The injunction would also require that allegedly infringing DVRs in consumer homes be shut off within 30 days.
We are pleased the Court concluded EchoStar did not act in bad faith and did not copy Tivo's technology, and we intend to continue our vigorous defense of this case. We believe that, for a number of reasons, the Texas Court should be reversed in all other respects on appeal. We also continue to work on modifications to our new DVRs, and to our DVRs in the field, intended to avoid future infringement. Existing DISH Network customers with DVRs are not immediately impacted by these recent developments, and we will keep consumers informed as events develop. We hope to have additional information for our customers very soon."
About EchoStar
EchoStar Communications Corporation (Nasdaq
ISH) serves more than 12.46 million satellite TV customers through its DISH Network(TM), the fastest growing U.S. provider of advanced digital television services in the last five years. DISH Network offers hundreds of video and audio channels, Interactive TV, HDTV, sports and international programming, together with professional installation and 24-hour customer service. SOURCE: EchoStar Communications Corporation
For EchoStar Communications Corporation
Kathie Gonzalez, 720-514-5351
press@echostar.com
Don't add fuel to the fire. DirecTV has nothing to do with this. DirecTV just licenses Tivo. Tivo is protecting it's interests.JonUrban said:
Ken F said:Henry Ford didn't invent the automobile.
Do a search on the Seldon Patent. The automobile actually was patented. All US makers paid the royalty. The patent was broken because the patent holder never actually produced a car, not because the patent was wrong.
