Traditional Providers Losses, 3rd Quarter 2023 Edition

[Bruce]

I wonder what the

A Tale of Two Cable Companies: Comcast Vs. Charter Broadband - Telecompetitor

Charter has stronger unit growth, while Comcast has stronger financial metrics, noted MoffettNathanson. Longer-term, the

www.telecompetitor.com

From the article-

attributes Charter’s stronger performance, at least in part, to the company’s expansion into rural areas. The cableco added 31,000 new customer relationships in their rural edge-out markets in third quarter.

They have been expanding into the rural area for awhile, including my house, back in 2018, all on the Government dime.

I have no idea if Comcast is doing the same.

 

[Bruce]

Altice ( former Cablevision) just reported, down 77,000 video, they are now offically looking to get out of video.

So with Fios, Comcast, Charter and now Altice, we are already at 917,000 video subs lost for this quarter.

With that, First Quarter at 2,215,000, second quarter at 1,730,000 and so far the third at 917,000, the year is already at 4,862,000 with Cox, WOW, DirecTV, Dish (Monday) and the Live TV streaming services yet to report, then the 4th quarter yet to come.

Last year was 5.9 million total.

 

[Bruce]

Cable One/Sparklight lost 18,000 and giving up on Video-

Now Cable One CEO Julie Laulis said her company is preparing to fully shut down its TV service to focus on its broadband service. “We are navigating the final stages of decline in our video product… As we draw down on our remaining video subscribers, we are preparing for an environment without a video business.” Julie Laulis said, according to a report from Ted Hearn.

They only now have 140,000, down from 340,000 in 2016

 

[Bruce]

Well a surprise, Fubo added 310,000.

Usually the 3rd Quarter is good for Paid Live TV Subscribers, mostly because of College/Pro Football returning, but based on the losses that Comcast and Charter had, thought that was over, but it looks like people are getting some type of TV Service, just via streaming.

Also explains the new sub numbers for Peacock and Paramount+, both had gains this quarter and they both have Live Feeds (NBC and CBS) and College and Pro Football.

Curious if Hulu Live gains after 2 quarters of losses, YTTV always gains, but will the number be a lot bigger with College/Pro Football and Sunday Ticket.

So, new number is now 625,000 who have left, Dish is up on Monday with their report, WOW and Hulu Live on Wednesday.

 

[navychop]

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Why ads are hitting streaming services. Hit the Read more.

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[MikeD-C05]

Sounds like they are going to kill the goose that laid the golden eggs, again. Consumers will just stop subscribing if they have to watch commercials. All this pressure from these streaming companies to get more money will end up being the death of streaming as we have known it up to now. My 23 years old Gen Z son hates ads and gets pissed if they come on during a movie. I just get up to get a drink or go to the bathroom when they play. But he can't comprehend it. Younger generations want things V.O.D. and don't really want to stick around to keep it longer than it is on the streaming service. Show is over then so is the subscription.

 

[Bruce]

Sounds like they are going to kill the goose that laid the golden eggs, again. Consumers will just stop subscribing if they have to watch commercials. All this pressure from these streaming companies to get more money will end up being the death of streaming as we have known it up to now. My 23 years old Gen Z son hates ads and gets pissed if they come on during a movie. I just get up to get a drink or go to the bathroom when they play. But he can't comprehend it. Younger generations want things V.O.D. and don't really want to stick around to keep it longer than it is on the streaming service. Show is over then so is the subscription.

Said it before, say it again, I will not pay for any service that forces ads on me.

Everything I sub to is ad free ( except ESPN+ which is to be expected).

If no ad free option available, bye bye.

 

[dishdude]

I took home the first 501 we got into the shop back in 2001 and haven't watched live TV since. If I come across an unskippable ad in a streaming service I'm out.

 

[Radioguy41]

Prime is pushing the dickens out of their Ad supported FreeVee service and it annoys the heck out of me. It's getting more and more difficult to find ad free content because the front page and the search function front end load the returns with FreeVee content. It sure would be nice if there was a setting to eliminate FreeVee content from the front page and from search results but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Bruce]

Prime is pushing the dickens out of their Ad supported FreeVee service and it annoys the heck out of me. It's getting more and more difficult to find ad free content because the front page and the search function front end load the returns with FreeVee content. It sure would be nice if there was a setting to eliminate FreeVee content from the front page and from search results but I'm not holding my breath.

Can’t complain about Freevie because it is free, does not even require you to be a Prime subscriber.

But I find it very easy to separate Prime from Freevee.

Looking at it now

As you can see, it says Prime first, then if you look at the next photo, it says Freevee

 

[savarese04]

Prime is pushing the dickens out of their Ad supported FreeVee service and it annoys the heck out of me. It's getting more and more difficult to find ad free content because the front page and the search function front end load the returns with FreeVee content. It sure would be nice if there was a setting to eliminate FreeVee content from the front page and from search results but I'm not holding my breath.

even on the fire stick, you can easily separate out those two content portfolios. most don't realize it, but they get fed from apps, so if you just open the prime video app, you'll get only prime content. likewise for freevee app.

 

[Juan]

Sounds like they are going to kill the goose that laid the golden eggs, again. Consumers will just stop subscribing if they have to watch commercials. All this pressure from these streaming companies to get more money will end up being the death of streaming as we have known it up to now. My 23 years old Gen Z son hates ads and gets pissed if they come on during a movie. I just get up to get a drink or go to the bathroom when they play. But he can't comprehend it. Younger generations want things V.O.D. and don't really want to stick around to keep it longer than it is on the streaming service. Show is over then so is the subscription.

Peacock shows their commercials BEFORE the show or movie begins..that might work

 

[KAB]

Peacock shows their commercials BEFORE the show or movie begins..that might work

For Peacock, Movies, yes. Show, no.

 

[Bruce]

Time to get this thread back to normal-

Today, DISH announced its 3rd quarter 2023 earnings and reported that DISH and Sling TV lost 64,000 subscribers. This is great news as Sling TV has turned around recent losses and added customers in the 3rd quarter of 2023.

Sling TV added lost 117,00, and DISH lost 181,000 subscribers. In total, DISH now has 8,840,000 pay TV customers between the two brands, down from 8,904,000 during the same period in 2022. Sling TV now has 2.12 million subscribers, and DISH has 6.72 million subscribers.

So not as bad thanks to Sling, but still not good news, when you lose that many more Satellite Subs that pay a average of around $110 and pick up less then you lose subs at $40, is not good when you need some capital from the banks/bonds/investors of any kind for your 5G plans.

Here-The company reported a net loss of $139 million, or 26 cents a share, after net income of $412 million, or 65 cents a share, in the same period a year ago.

Dish Network’s stock drops after a surprise loss, revenue miss

Dish Network stock tumbles after a surprise loss, revenue miss

www.marketwatch.com

So, total loss is 669,000 this quarter.

So when I did my search for Dish 3rd Quarter, this popped up from 2016, when they had 13,643,000 Satellite Subscribers, which means they have lost over 50% Sat.Subs in 7 years.

DirecTV is doing worst, roughly about 58% loss for Sat. Subs, what surprises me is how well Comcast and Charter have held up until this year, especially Comcast, who is just awful with their video service, since they knock down the resolution of everything to 720P.

https://ir.dish.com/news-releases/news-release-details/dish-network-reports-third-quarter-2016-financial-results

 

[MikeD-C05]

At this rate I wonder how much longer DISH satellite service can continue like this. They had better get their wireless up to 75% of coverage by June 2025 or they will lose all that bandwith and with it the rest of their company aims. I wish that they could do something that would rescue DISH but I am not optimistic it will continue like this losing subs every quarter.

 

[Bruce]

At this rate I wonder how much longer DISH satellite service can continue like this. They had better get their wireless up to 75% of coverage by June 2025 or they will lose all that bandwith and with it the rest of their company aims. I wish that they could do something that would rescue DISH but I am not optimistic it will continue like this losing subs every quarter.

Based on news stories, $21 Billion in debt, down to about $1.5 Billion in cash and now unprofitable, Chapter 11 might be an option to handle that debt, but then risks the Government taking back the spectrum.

Dish needs about $6-8 Billion next year, just to cover build out, debt coming due, that includes the $3.5 Billion it has to pay T-Mobile next year.

Also just noticed this, it’s Boost Mobile lost another 225,000, down to 7.5 Million subscribers, it had 9 million when Dish took over.

Lastly this-
Liberty Latin America Ltd. on Monday said it is to buy Dish airwaves rights in Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands — and about 120,000 prepaid mobile subscribers in those markets — in exchange for cash and international roaming credits.

So selling what they can for quick cash.
edit, it was for $256 million.

Dish Falls Most in 23 Years After Earnings Miss Ahead of Merger

(Bloomberg) -- Dish Network Corp. suffered its worst stock decline in 23 years after reporting disappointing third-quarter revenue and a drop in wireless customers that was much worse than analysts predicted.Most Read from BloombergIsrael Latest: North Gaza Cut Off as Reported Deaths Pass...

finance.yahoo.com

 

[Bruce]

Dish’s stock is taking a massive hit, almost $2 down, it really trended downward after the webcast where they said they were having trouble raising capital.

Also this-

"We're failing fast and we're learning," added Dish founder Charlie Ergen during Dish's quarterly earnings call.

Here is what all the financial people are saying-

But some analysts continue to see Dish as a company headed for disaster. "Even for a long-time Dish skeptic, today's results come as a shock. Dish's Q3 report is astonishingly bad," wrote the financial analysts at MoffettNathanson in a report to investors Monday.

Added the analysts: "A Chapter 11 emergence from bankruptcy – without spectrum sales – might be the only allowable outcome."

The financial analysts at Raymond James summarized Dish's financial performance in the third quarter with one word: "Weak."

Others agreed. "Subscriber and financial results weaker than expected," wrote the analysts at New Street Research.

Dish's struggles continue in Q3

Dish's third quarter results came in far below expectations, and the company's CEO made an early exit. 'We're failing fast and we're learning,' said Dish founder Charlie Ergen. Next up for Dish: a merger with EchoStar.

www.lightreading.com

 

[meStevo]

Dish Chairman Charlie Ergen Admits Company Must Walk “A Narrow Path” Toward Financial Stability; DirecTV Merger Pursuit Is Paused As Stock Crashes To 25-Year Low​

“We have a narrow path, but there is a path, to achieve financial stability and make sure we meet our commitments,” Chairman Charlie Ergen said. “Having been through this for a long time, we’ve had narrow paths before.”​

​

The company’s shares plunged more than 37% on more than eight times normal trading volume to finish the day at $3.44. It was the stock’s biggest single-day drop in the nearly three decades since it began trading and its lowest closing price in 25 years.​

Dish Chairman Charlie Ergen Admits Company Must Walk “A Narrow Path” Toward Financial Stability; DirecTV Merger Pursuit Is Paused As Stock Crashes To 25-Year Low

With its shares in free fall after a dismal third-quarter earnings report, Dish Network executives faced the music with Wall Street, conceding in an earnings call that they face an array of intensi…

deadline.com

Things seem particularly dire all of the sudden, and DISH is probably the stronger of the 2 satellite providers. If they find themselves unable to put together a merger w/ DirecTV I wonder if it dooms both of them long term, with one or both destined for post-bankruptcy niche services (and the other being sold off for parts).

 

[navychop]

I’m guessing I need not ponder too much about dropping Dish. They may go under first.

 

[Bruce]

Things seem particularly dire all of the sudden, and DISH is probably the stronger of the 2 satellite providers. If they find themselves unable to put together a merger w/ DirecTV I wonder if it dooms both of them long term, with one or both destined for post-bankruptcy niche services (and the other being sold off for parts).

If Dish did not have their money pit version of a 5G network or their 1.5 million subscriber losing mobile phone company, I have no doubt they would have outlasted DirecTV.

Next year, I believe by April, they have $3 Billion in Debt due, $2 Billion more the end of 2024 out of $21 Billion in debt, no one to loan them money, even if they did, bad time to refinance.

Then they have a commitment to by more spectrum from T-Mobile for $3.5 Billion, payable next summer.

DirecTV profit is shrinking by $1.6 Billion a year, but they are still profitable, it will take 2 to 2.5 years at this rate before they are unprofitable.

But it will be quicker, if cord cutting picks up as expected.