TiVo's contempt motion is out

[jayn_j]

Recording while viewing as a concept can not be patented, nor pause, fast forward, playback..., because such prior arts existed, in a $10 item called a VCR. You can record and view at the same time on a VCR, pause, fast forward and backward. Even if some of the concept was new, an art must not be obvious to a person of ordinary skill at the time to be infringed on.

That is why if you read the appeals court's review of the argument, it went to painstaking details to compare each word in eash construction of the claims, because most of the time, only the specific method used to achieve a concept, may be infringed upon, not a concept itself.

Really? Show me the VCR where I can start recording, then play back from the start 20 minutes later, while still recording the rest of the program. Show me the VCR where I can pause to go answer the phone, while still recording and pick it up from the point where the phone rang. Not part of the patent claims, but show me the VCR that can random access programs and index them by name (that should have been claimed on another patent, and don't bother to tell me about computer storage. It's a different application and thus valid)

And once again: EVERYTHING IS OBVIOUS ONCE IT HAS BEEN DONE.

TIVO totally changed the concept of home recording when it came out.

 

[Curtis0620]

Hell with that. I ACTIVELY wish to see Tivo go bankrupt. They sucked in the first place and that's why they are out of business and resorting to desperate measures such as suing companies with a better product than their own.

You realize that DISH has been found guilty of stealing TiVo's software?

You like companies that try to take advantage of smaller ones?

 

[RVD420]

Seems dish has two options:
1. use single DVRs and let us hook them up via ethernet. As long as I can share recordings from one to the other, I would not mind having multiple units. You could even stack 4 in your closet and cable them together. All other untis could just access the recorded programs on these.

Well ReplayTV DVR offer what you suggest. To bad they are no longer made, and that DirecTV bought ReplayTV.

 

[psychicmind]

Seems dish has two options:
2. just drag this out unitl Tivo goes bankrupt, or is close to it and buy them out. Then dish could start filing claims against every other DVR maker.....

TiVo is not going to go bankrupt without completing their Dish Lawsuit. TiVo already knew Dish would appeal and drag out the process as long as they can. I believe TiVo is more than willing to pay 20 million in lawyer/court fees over years and years since winning would open the door to receiving income from EVERY active DVR from ANY service provider.

Suing Dish is an investment for TiVo and I doubt they will allow bankruptcy to stop their lawsuits.

 

[BrianB]

Uh.... buying a device and then paying for service is not at all uncommon.

I bought a cell phone. I pay for service so that I can use it.

I bought a car with On-Star. I pay for service so that I can use it.

and so on...

In those instances, you are continuing to use that companie's services (phone calls, calls to OnStar CS, etc). With Tivo, the box will continue to work without them involved. Guide data is a different story though.

 

[philhu]

Tivo needs to go the hell out of business. This whole "No, you bought the DVR, but you still need to pay for SERVIC!" thing is complete, and utter Bullsh!t. If I want to pay $200 for a DVR, I'll do whatever the diddy F I want to do with it, and I'm not going to pay for a service to use it. Why not make an ad supported system, or have an RSS style system, or just use normal EPA signals? Sheesh.

Gayest patent ever. DVRs existed before Tivo did anyway.

No they didn't. Tivo (or arguably Replay, but it has been prven elsewhere that Tivo was actually first by about 5 months with a conceptual display of tivo at a show (CES maybe?) before either company showed anything else or sold product)

Either way, Tivo got a patent, it was upheld in a year of research by the Patent office, and Tivo won.

Dish, get off your high horse and license or pay for what you had taken. When you get caught, you can't just fix it for future and forget about the old violations.

And you might not like Tivo's business model. If you don't like paying licensing fees, THEN DON'T USE THE PRODUCT/CONCEPTS!!!

 

[8bitbytes]

Some interesting and informative reading here:

Debunking the Software Patent Myths

 

[belawrence]

Really? Show me the VCR where I can start recording, then play back from the start 20 minutes later, while still recording the rest of the program. Show me the VCR where I can pause to go answer the phone, while still recording and pick it up from the point where the phone rang. Not part of the patent claims, but show me the VCR that can random access programs and index them by name (that should have been claimed on another patent, and don't bother to tell me about computer storage. It's a different application and thus valid)

And once again: EVERYTHING IS OBVIOUS ONCE IT HAS BEEN DONE.

TIVO totally changed the concept of home recording when it came out.

Everything you just said is accurate except ReplayTV made it to market about two months before Tivo.

 

[Derwin0]

Really? Show me the VCR where I can start recording, then play back from the start 20 minutes later, while still recording the rest of the program.

There were DVD recorders that would allow you to do that. They called it "Trick Play" or "Time Slip".

 

[jayn_j]

Everything you just said is accurate except ReplayTV made it to market about two months before Tivo.

Been discussed endlessly. Market date and patent application date are unrelated. TIVO patented first, and demonstrated before Replay was released.

There were DVD recorders that would allow you to do that. They called it "Trick Play" or "Time Slip".

I don't think there were any DVD recorders out before the first TIVO. TIVO has been around since 1997. I seem to recall the first DVD recorders (standalone) in the 2001-2 timeframe. Time-slip is being promoted as something new

 

[Derwin0]

I don't think there were any DVD recorders out before the first TIVO. TIVO has been around since 1997. I seem to recall the first DVD recorders (standalone) in the 2001-2 timeframe. Time-slip is being promoted as something new

Pioneer had DVD-R's out in 1997. Stand Alone Recorders by Pioneer were out in Japan at the same time (was tempted to by one that year, as I was stationed in Japan at the time, but they were very pricey). Not sure if they had Trick Play or not though.

And didn't Tivo & Replay launch in '99, not '97?

 

[Thomas22]

Been discussed endlessly. Market date and patent application date are unrelated. TIVO patented first, and demonstrated before Replay was released.

Irelevent but for a different reason. ReplayTV and TiVo patented different aspects of DVRs. It's apples and oranges.

 

[haertig]

Playback while the same program continues to record is.

That doesn't sound a whole lot different than "the monitor head" on a tape deck. You monitor what has just been recorded. We've had that capability for decades and decades.

 

[Thomas22]

That doesn't sound a whole lot different than "the monitor head" on a tape deck. You monitor what has just been recorded. We've had that capability for decades and decades.

Wow. If only the Dish lawyers knew about that they could have included it in their request to the patent office to reexamine TiVo's patent.

 

[jayn_j]

Wow. If only the Dish lawyers knew about that they could have included it in their request to the patent office to reexamine TiVo's patent.

 

[OoTLink]

Either way, Tivo got a patent, it was upheld in a year of research by the Patent office, and Tivo won.

Part of the problem with patents on software is that they only patent the end result, not how it is achieved.

Basically, Tivo patented devices that produce light, and Dish made a light bulb. Therfore, they're being sued for making a device that produces light, and even if it uses a completely different method, Tivo can take credit for it.

And no, I disagree - it does have previous work involved. You could record to a storage device while playing through that recording long before Tivo, computers? Quicktime has been doing that for F-ing years (you download a laaarge video right? Meanwhile, you can go back to the beginning and watch it as it downloads)....

Frivolous patents.


Also, I disagree about the 'subscription model'; A cellphone needs service to function. However, if you buy a cellphone you can still use it with whoever you wish (any GSM phone will work on any GSM network provided you unlock it, and that is a protected right you have).. The infrastructure to make cellphones work is massive, the infrastructure to provide EPG info for a device like a DVR isn't just available all over the place with ads, but it's available OTA for free as well.

 

[Thomas22]

Part of the problem with patents on software is that they only patent the end result, not how it is achieved.

Basically, Tivo patented devices that produce light, and Dish made a light bulb. Therfore, they're being sued for making a device that produces light, and even if it uses a completely different method, Tivo can take credit for it.

Dish infringed the process that TiVo patented. If Dish can accomplish the same thing using a different process they will not be infinging.

Here is the first sentence of the section in TiVo's patent that Dish infringed:

"31. A process for the simultaneous storage and play back of multimedia data, comprising the steps of:

See the word "process"?

 

[Derwin0]

Dish infringed the process that TiVo patented. If Dish can accomplish the same thing using a different process they will not be infinging.

Which is what they say the new software does.

 

[dgordo]

DISHs motion in opposition to being held in contempt was released as part of the Delaware case.

 

[sclaws]

DISHs motion in opposition to being held in contempt was released as part of the Delaware case.

That was actually an interesting read...thx for the post.