TiVo's contempt motion is out

[dlsnyder]

Actually you could do this with a VCR, and rather simply too, we used to do it all the time 15-20 years ago. and I know Tivo has not been around this long.

You were not doing the same thing, you were watching a live program while the VCR recorded something else. The TiVo innovation was to permit viewing of a recorded program while recording another program. You could not do that even if you had 2 VCRs, because you could not start watching a program from the beginning while it was still recording and FF through the commercials. Now that I think about it, Replay patented that ability which TiVo also had. Replay took a lot of heat from the NAB over that back in the late 90's IIRC.

 

[cparker]

Tivo needs to go the hell out of business. This whole "No, you bought the DVR, but you still need to pay for SERVIC!" thing is complete, and utter Bullsh!t. If I want to pay $200 for a DVR, I'll do whatever the diddy F I want to do with it, and I'm not going to pay for a service to use it.

Uh.... buying a device and then paying for service is not at all uncommon.

I bought a cell phone. I pay for service so that I can use it.

I bought a car with On-Star. I pay for service so that I can use it.

and so on...

 

[vegassatellite]

Long before DISH ever shuts down the majority of their DVRs, they will buy Tivo. Then they will gut it and sell it at a yard sale. Might even see Charlie put it on Craigslist by the time he's done with them. I'm not sweating, DISH is not going to lose DVR service. It would be ultimate death and he won't do it, plain and simple.

 

[jayn_j]

I agree that DISH will not lose its DVRs. They will prevail, pay fees or buy TIVO. Whatever it takes.

It still bothers me the number of people on this board who downplay the TIVO patents using the brilliant logic that it is invalid because it will inconvenience me.

ALL patents are obvious once they have been thought of. All patents are small incremental steps forward. The TIVO patent is more innovative than 90% of what is granted. As a patent holder, I can tell you that every one of my patents went through multiple itterations with the patent examiner challenging my claims. It is a game, with the inventor and patent attorney originally claiming way too much and letting the examiner whittle it down.

As for the TIVO sw patent, it really was something special. How many of you remember the first time you switched from VCR to a DVR? I know that the very first time, I was amazed and never wanted to go back. The concept of watching while recording was special. I was able to toss two VCRs in favor of one DVR. And the concept of watching the show while still recording it, while skipping the commercials. Wow, there was no way I could do that with a DVR under ANY conditions.

I am very interested to see how DISH claims that they circumvented the rather broad claims. I believe they have circumvented the specific claims of how to program a circular buffer that appear in the manifistation of the claims, but not the record while viewing concept. Therefore, I believe they will ultimately lose the workaround as well.

 

[Jim S.]

I am very interested to see how DISH claims that they circumvented the rather broad claims. I believe they have circumvented the specific claims of how to program a circular buffer that appear in the manifistation of the claims, but not the record while viewing concept. Therefore, I believe they will ultimately lose the workaround as well.

You've just defeated your own argument. If the claims are that broad, the patent should have never been allowed.

I'm still waiting for someone to address my argument of why it makes a difference that it's digital video being recorded vs. any other sort of data, when random-access including multiple handles on a single file has been part of computer science for a long time.

 

[Thomas22]

You've just defeated your own argument. If the claims are that broad, the patent should have never been allowed.

I'm still waiting for someone to address my argument of why it makes a difference that it's digital video being recorded vs. any other sort of data, when random-access including multiple handles on a single file has been part of computer science for a long time.

Maybe you don't know enough about the situation to ask a meaningful question. Have you read TiVo's patent? Do you know which claim within the patent Dish infringed?

 

[DishSubLA]

DISH needs to quit stealing, and pay up. DISH is the most dis-honest company ever.

More than Ruppie Murdoch's? PLEASE!

 

[DishSubLA]

I agree, but TiVo is not far behind...and they learn how to run a business. Unless TiVo can conconct some new patents (substitute flash memory for hard drive) they'll be out of business as soon as their patents start to expire in 2018.

That's why Tivo is getting out of the hardware end of the business is transforming into a software only model. That is what this lawsuit is really all about. It costs too much to acquire a customer by manufacturing and providing the hardware. Echostar was sued because it had the largest number of DVR's out there at the time of the filing. It is Tivo's "test case" and offered it the largest awards because Dish had the most DVR's out there. Tivo's next step, should they prevail against Echostar, will be to terrorize every other company, cable or manufacturer (such as Scientific Atlanta, etc.) into submission to purchasing licensing agreements for Tivo software in all the pretty DVR's out there. That is how Tivo is desperately trying to survive, and they may do it. Personally, I hope they fast fall on Wall Street and die. But their stock price is still so low, it won't be much of a fall.

 

[Curtis0620]

That's why Tivo is getting out of the hardware end of the business is transforming into a software only model. That is what this lawsuit is really all about. It costs too much to acquire a customer by manufacturing and providing the hardware. Echostar was sued because it had the largest number of DVR's out there at the time of the filing. It is Tivo's "test case" and offered it the largest awards because Dish had the most DVR's out there. Tivo's next step, should they prevail against Echostar, will be to terrorize every other company, cable or manufacturer (such as Scientific Atlanta, etc.) into submission to purchasing licensing agreements for Tivo software in all the pretty DVR's out there. That is how Tivo is desperately trying to survive, and they may do it. Personally, I hope they fast fall on Wall Street and die. But their stock price is still so low, it won't be much of a fall.

No, Once TiVo wins, everyone else will fall in line.

TiVo created the most innovative product, in regards to TV, in our lifetime. Why should they be cheated out of the rewards?

Would you have the same opinion if you invented something and someone else is making millions from it?

 

[Zero327]

No, Once TiVo wins, everyone else will fall in line.

TiVo created the most innovative product, in regards to TV, in our lifetime. Why should they be cheated out of the rewards?

Would you have the same opinion if you invented something and someone else is making millions from it?

Most innovative? I thought that would be firing a giant antenna into space instead of burying more cables in the ground to bring television channels across the globe; but maybe it's just me. *shrug*

 

[jacmyoung]

... but not the record while viewing concept. Therefore, I believe they will ultimately lose the workaround as well.

Recording while viewing as a concept can not be patented, nor pause, fast forward, playback..., because such prior arts existed, in a $10 item called a VCR. You can record and view at the same time on a VCR, pause, fast forward and backward. Even if some of the concept was new, an art must not be obvious to a person of ordinary skill at the time to be infringed on.

That is why if you read the appeals court's review of the argument, it went to painstaking details to compare each word in eash construction of the claims, because most of the time, only the specific method used to achieve a concept, may be infringed upon, not a concept itself.

 

[bidger`]

TiVo created the most innovative product, in regards to TV, in our lifetime.

Fanboi status confirmed.

And speaking of "motion of contempt", I have my own that I use on occasion, I wonder what TiVos is.

 

[Curtis0620]

Fanboi status confirmed.

And speaking of "motion of contempt", I have my own that I use on occasion, I wonder what TiVos is.

A fan of not stealing others products. And what about the DISH fanboy's here?

I guess you are ok with it as long as it benefits you.

 

[Curtis0620]

Recording while viewing as a concept can not be patented, nor pause, fast forward, playback..., because such prior arts existed, in a $10 item called a VCR. You can record and view at the same time on a VCR, pause, fast forward and backward. Even if some of the concept was new, an art must not be obvious to a person of ordinary skill at the time to be infringed on.

That is why if you read the appeals court's review of the argument, it went to painstaking details to compare each word in eash construction of the claims, because most of the time, only the specific method used to achieve a concept, may be infringed upon, not a concept itself.

Playback while the same program continues to record is. Can you do that with a VCR? How about pausing live TV?

 

[bidger`]

A fan of not stealing others products.

I quoted you saying that "TiVo was the most innovative product, in regards to TV, in our Lifetime" and you fall back to accusations of theft? 1+1 doesn't equal 3.

TiVo can't even deliver multichannel programming for you, it can only record what you receive from some other source, yet that makes it "innovative"? Hardly. TiVo has shown more of a tendency to litigate than innovate from my perspective.

 

[Curtis0620]

I quoted you saying that "TiVo was the most innovative product, in regards to TV, in our Lifetime" and you fall back to accusations of theft? 1+1 doesn't equal 3.

TiVo can't even deliver multichannel programming for you, it can only record what you receive from some other source, yet that makes it "innovative"? Hardly. TiVo has shown more of a tendency to litigate than innovate from my perspective.

I think you mean DISH. Nobody is involved in more lawsuits than DISH.

 

[psychicmind]

That's why Tivo is getting out of the hardware end of the business is transforming into a software only model. That is what this lawsuit is really all about. It costs too much to acquire a customer by manufacturing and providing the hardware. Echostar was sued because it had the largest number of DVR's out there at the time of the filing. It is Tivo's "test case" and offered it the largest awards because Dish had the most DVR's out there. Tivo's next step, should they prevail against Echostar, will be to terrorize every other company, cable or manufacturer (such as Scientific Atlanta, etc.) into submission to purchasing licensing agreements for Tivo software in all the pretty DVR's out there. That is how Tivo is desperately trying to survive, and they may do it. Personally, I hope they fast fall on Wall Street and die. But their stock price is still so low, it won't be much of a fall.

Yes - That's what a patient lawyer told me too.

If TiVo wins the Dish Lawsuit, the remaining Cable and Sat companies will be terrorized into compliance by TiVo.

I personally don't wish to see any company tank though. I like TiVo, but a 622 is far better.

 

[Bountykiller]

Hell with that. I ACTIVELY wish to see Tivo go bankrupt. They sucked in the first place and that's why they are out of business and resorting to desperate measures such as suing companies with a better product than their own.

 

[zman]

Seems dish has two options:
1. use single DVRs and let us hook them up via ethernet. As long as I can share recordings from one to the other, I would not mind having multiple units. You could even stack 4 in your closet and cable them together. All other untis could just access the recorded programs on these.

2. just drag this out unitl Tivo goes bankrupt, or is close to it and buy them out. Then dish could start filing claims against every other DVR maker.....

 

[Thomas22]

Hell with that. I ACTIVELY wish to see Tivo go bankrupt.

Actively? So are you sacrificing chickens or what?