TiVo's contempt motion is out

[8bitbytes]

Since the infringement was software, specifically the Time Warp patent, by loading the new software and rebooting the dvr the dvr functionality based on that patent is disabled and will be well past the expiration of that patent. No hardware was found to be infringing any patents so to require the hardware to be turned off that is not running infringing software is bullish by Tivo but not defensible.

In Polaroid vs Kodak, the chemical process for instant photos was what infringed 7 of Polaroid's patents and Kodak could have easily changed the chemical and layers process (software) to continue in the instant camera business with the existing instant cameras (hardware). They decided not to and shut it all down in favor of their new disc cameras.

A patent is not a perfect protection against imitation. It only grants the patentholder the right to sue intruders once they have been identified. This implies that the patentholder must supervise the market and react in case of infringement. The reaction may be to go to court, to settle an agreement or to accept the entry. Xerox has a portfolio full of patents that have been infringed but for the most part did not choose to pursue the infringements.

 

[8bitbytes]

It's interesting that the legal pdf document still contains the real text that is supposed to be "blocked out" in this redacted version. When I view the document on my linux workstation using the standard evince document viewer, all I have to do is highlight the blocked part and I can read the original text under the black blocks.

The adobe viewer on my Windows workstation will not permit this.

I'm surprised the text is actually there and just "covered"!

It's surprising that even though the Feds learned this fact the hard way, many legal entities still think the black bar over the pdf document text prevents the text from being read. Just load it in a text or hex editor and find the text.

 

[mike123abc]

DISH has to prove their new software doesn't infringe, not Tivo. If they can't then they are definately in contempt. I think we can at least agree about this.

I agree, the question is how do they prove it? Dish claims they had 3 separate outside firms review the code and they gave it to TiVo. Is this enough? It is hard to prove a negative.

 

[riffjim4069]

Citi: 75% Chance TiVO Wins DISH Patent Trial (TIVO)

Good article (expert analysis) about the case...personally, if I were the Cable Cartel (Comcast, Time-Warner, etc.), I would attempt to outbid EchoStar.

Source

TiVo (TIVO) bulls have long argued that the even though the company was getting lapped by knock-offs, it had a booster engine that would let it catch up: Patent rights that would force competitors to pay up or get out of the DVR businesss. Now they're about to get proven correct, says Citi analyst Tony Wible.

Tony notes that the last phase of a long-running patent dispute wraps up Sept. 4 in a Texas courtroom, and gives TiVo a 75% chance of walking away from the fight victorious. Here's his breakdown of the odds:

But the most intriguing possibility (at least for TiVo bulls) comes from a different Citi analyst. Jason Bazinet, who covers DISH, also concludes that TiVo is likely to win the case -- which might prompt DISH to go ahead and buy the DVR-maker outright:

Given the downside potential to DISH, our Cable analyst Jason Bazinet (who also has a note out today on the trial) believes DISH may attempt to purchase TIVO at up to a 225% premium. We note that TIVO has anti-takeover provisions and would not likely sell for anything less than a massive premium.

The logic here: If TiVo wins, DISH either has to turn off all of its DVRs -- unacceptable -- or fork over a license fee for each of the 4.5 million ones it has sold so far -- expensive but doable. But for a few bucks more, Bazinet argues, DISH could buy TiVo outright. That would take care of its legal problems -- and create headaches for its cable competitors, who may well have patent problems of our own.

Plausible? TiVo investors, an excitable bunch, certainly think so: They've bid shares up 7% today.

 

[navychop]

And I believe that's what it's all about, and all it has ever been about. And it didn't work for SCO.

 

[riffjim4069]

And I believe that's what it's all about, and all it has ever been about. And it didn't work for SCO.

For the greater good, Cable & Satellite powers should unite, buy TiVo, and release the patents and all derivatives into the public domain.:up

 

[navychop]

Well, we can dream.

 

[dgordo]

tivo reply dated 7/18:

TIVO'S REPLY IN FURTHER SUPPORT OF ITS MOTION FOR ECHOSTAR TO BE HELD IN CONTEMPT FOR VIOLATION OF THIS COURT'S PERMANENT INJUNCTION

 

[dgordo]

Echostar motion dated 7/18

THE ECHOSTAR DEFENDANTS’ UNOPPOSED MOTION FOR WITHDRAWAL OF
THEIR MOTION FOR INTERPRETATION OF THE INJUNCTION

 

[NoCenterIceNoDishNetwork]

Echostar motion dated 7/18

THE ECHOSTAR DEFENDANTS’ UNOPPOSED MOTION FOR WITHDRAWAL OF
THEIR MOTION FOR INTERPRETATION OF THE INJUNCTION

So.... Resolved?

 

[rsmith7]

Charlie needs to just get on board and pay the licensing fee. Maybe they can make the DVR better instead of circumventing the Tivo technology. Take my $5.98 DVR fee and apply it to the licensing fee.

I love my Dish DVR but is the fight worth it?

 

[Fitzie]

Resolved? No. Tivo's position is that replacement of infringing software with non-infringing software is not an option for the hardware in which it was placed. Dish believes infringing software can be removed and replaced with non-infringing software. I believe Dish will win this battle based on the fact Tivo's patent of equipment was reversed at the higher court, and the infringing software has been removed. Dish's motion had to do with the issue of whether Dish could replace the exempted number of receivers which age out or have other difficulties with similar receivers. Dish said it has decided it will simply replace them with new non-infringing Mpeg 4 receivers rather than trying to maintain the exempted number, and thus withdraws it motion. Tivo has won that point and thus does not oppose the motion for withdrawal.

We should see something soon.

 

[dgordo]

Im not sure how you can say so easily that DISH will win. Maybe they will, I have no idea but the tivo motion makes some points that refute your logic:

"EchoStar's argument relies on the fiction that the Adjudicated Receivers morphed into "new" products as a result of an alleged software download– an argument this Court anticipated and rejected two years ago."

"EchoStar's argument, that an alleged modification of the original software can automatically remove the Adjudicated Receivers from the scope of the injunction, would undo the judgment of infringement in this case. The judgment was not limitedto the original software; rather, the Adjudicated Receivers en toto were judged to infringe. Although Claims 31 and 61 are sometimes referred to as the "software claims," they actually cover a process and an apparatus, respectively, and also contain hardware elements. The Federal Circuit's mandate encompasses findings of infringement with respect to all of the Adjudicated Receivers (not just software therein), as well as affirmance of this Court's injunction. "

 

[megamike]

Quote from Case 2:04-cv-00001-DF-CMC Document 846 Filed 07/18/2008 Page 1 of 3

- In any event, due to internal business decisions, EchoStar recently determined that it no longer needs the relief requested. EchoStar is increasingly moving to set-top boxes compatible with MPEG-4 technology, as opposed to MPEG-2, which is the platform for the DP-721, DP-921, and DP-942 models.
Thus, EchoStar has recently adopted a new program in which it replaces non-functioning boxes of those three models with different models compatible with MPEG-4 technology. End Quote

I thought they were exchanging the 721 with 522 or maybe 625, those are not mpeg4. Any comments?

 

[vegassatellite]

Quote from Case 2:04-cv-00001-DF-CMC Document 846 Filed 07/18/2008 Page 1 of 3

- In any event, due to internal business decisions, EchoStar recently determined that it no longer needs the relief requested. EchoStar is increasingly moving to set-top boxes compatible with MPEG-4 technology, as opposed to MPEG-2, which is the platform for the DP-721, DP-921, and DP-942 models.
Thus, EchoStar has recently adopted a new program in which it replaces non-functioning boxes of those three models with different models compatible with MPEG-4 technology. End Quote

I thought they were exchanging the 721 with 522 or maybe 625, those are not mpeg4. Any comments?

Hmmm, maybe they are MPEG4. I suppose they could be but not capable of 8psk.

 

[Fitzie]

dgordo said "I'm not sure how you can say so easily that Dish will win."

Answer: simple logic. If the equipment is non-infringing, and the software is non-infringing, why wouldn't the two together be non-infringing? I understand that Tivo wants to punish Dish by making them pull all their old receivers they possibly can. Maybe Tivo's nickname should be "Tivo the Destroyer." Or perhaps, "Tivo, younger brother of Conan the Barbarian."

Fitzie

 

[navychop]

Quote from Case 2:04-cv-00001-DF-CMC Document 846 Filed 07/18/2008 Page 1 of 3

- In any event, due to internal business decisions, EchoStar recently determined that it no longer needs the relief requested. EchoStar is increasingly moving to set-top boxes compatible with MPEG-4 technology, as opposed to MPEG-2, which is the platform for the DP-721, DP-921, and DP-942 models.
Thus, EchoStar has recently adopted a new program in which it replaces non-functioning boxes of those three models with different models compatible with MPEG-4 technology. End Quote

I thought they were exchanging the 721 with 522 or maybe 625, those are not mpeg4. Any comments?

The 522, 625, 721, 921 & 942 models definitely can not utilize MPEG-4 signals. The 721 is not 8PSK capable.

Some have reported getting a 721 to replace their broken 721.

My take on your post is that there is a good chance that at some point in the future, when my 721 breaks they will give me one heck of a deal on a ViP box. Or maybe the day approaches "soon" when they'll just offer to take the 721 out of service with me for a great ViP deal. And then I'll have to start paying the DVR fee or up my programming package to eliminate it.

I cannot be bought!
However, I rent for reasonable rates.
And sometimes conviction goes out the door when money come in the window.

 

[Fitzie]

navy chop said "I cannot be bought!
However, I rent for reasonable rates.
And sometimes conviction goes out the door when money come in the window"

Coming at the end of a nice informative post, that surprised and tickled me. Thanks!

 

[megamike]

Maybe we can get a VIP when they run out of 721's.

 

[dgordo]

dgordo said "I'm not sure how you can say so easily that Dish will win."

Answer: simple logic. If the equipment is non-infringing, and the software is non-infringing, why wouldn't the two together be non-infringing? I understand that Tivo wants to punish Dish by making them pull all their old receivers they possibly can. Maybe Tivo's nickname should be "Tivo the Destroyer." Or perhaps, "Tivo, younger brother of Conan the Barbarian."

Fitzie

I agree with your point, if dish isn't infringing they win. But they have already been found to infringe. Maybe the court will decide that they are no longer infringing but maybe the court will rule that the injunction has nothing to do with software or hardware but rather devices that needed to be disabled. Remember, tivos patent never doesn't say anything about software or hardware. Its just not as cut and dry as you made it seem.