TIVO wins E* Lawsuit - Potential Impact on ALL DVRs

[Jim S.]

I've always said that if people are going to abuse the patent system by taking out patents on the obvious, we should abolish patents altogether. The stated purpose of patents is to ensure innovation by providing for financial rewards for creators. However, the existence and success of Linux proves that financial rewards are not at all necessary. People will create just because they wish to have a better world.

 

[pdxsam]

I've always said that if people are going to abuse the patent system by taking out patents on the obvious, we should abolish patents altogether.

The problem with the patent system is not only the abuse but the fact that the government grants the abusive patents.

It's wacky that you can patent something that's already been patented by another group if you have some additional idea that makes it "better"

Is Tivo going to sue the open source offerings like Myth TV? Doubtful, but they could and that would make things really scary.

Sam

 

[Barry Erick]

Thing is, TIVO was not first. Maybe first for a consumer, but not first with the technique. We've been doing it for years (as a user) before there was a TIVO with other equipment.

 

[RBBrittain]

It's Texarkana - Half Texas- Half Arkansas.
Tom in TX

I think the plaintiff-friendly side of the U.S. Post Office & Courthouse there (the only Federal office building on a state line) is the Texas side. The Arkansas side's in the Western District of Arkansas, which also covers highly-conservative Northwest Arkansas--home to Wal-Mart, Tyson, and J.B. Hunt, among others. Any class action filed on the Arkansas side would likely be transferred to Fort Smith or Fayetteville, then dismissed in the blink of an eye.

 

[hdtvtechno]

No
Directv will buy Tivo
There i said it

 

[minorthr]

I wonder what is going to happen with this injunction tivo says "TiVo intends to seek a permanent injunction against EchoStar's DVR products"

now if that is granted is that the sale of dvrs? does that make all the current dish dvrs in the field boat anchors?

This is going to be very interesting.

 

[slacker9876]

I hope so. Maybe the courts can force Comcast to take their peice of crap DVR and replace it with a TiVo unit.

-John

Comcast will be rolling TiVo DVR's in the 3rd Qtr of this year. This is great news overall (well I am a TiVo Fan) and I hope an injunction will be grnted along with the suit against all DVR makers including DirecTV very very soon.

 

[David Dietzel]

Dish should absolutely buy TIVO, expell the TIVO execs with golden parachutes and then incorporate full TIVO technology into a 622 software update. Dish should have purchased TIVO some time ago.

 

[Brewer4]

Things just got more interesting. And I was thinking Tivo was dead on the ropes. They are back baby. Not necesarily with innovation and marketing, but legal patents. The monetary amount is only afraction of what this means. Its huge for Tivo. D* knew what itwas doing when it extended the 3 year deal. Wow.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

It would surprise me if D* bought Tivo now, right after signing the 3 year agreement. Why bother with the agreement?

D* still plans to bring out their own DVR boxes too.

It will be interesting to see how much E* pays in the end, and when they eventually get around to doing so.

I hope Tivo doesn't have patent rights now over all digital video recorders. If so, then if I held a patent on cell phones, I would be calling my lawyers.

 

[PATONENOW]

But how happy will D* be if they have to pay E* a couple million bucks a month royalty?

I speculated early on that if E* lost, they would make a deal to aquire TiVo. They would steal a bunch of subs from D* especially if they provided full features like HMO and MRV.

D* needs to step up and aquire TiVo before E* does. What is good for TiVo in this case is not necessarily good for D*.

THAT was the reason that D* and TIVO made a new agreement so that as in the agreement D* can use the TIVO tecknology without fear of a lawsuit and vice-versa.

 

[Stargazer]

Tivo suffering due to other companies coming out with their own DVR service hurt TIvo really bad and almost put them under forcing Tivo to take action like this. I do not think that the current Dish or DirecTv DVR's using their own "in house" software would be capable of using Tivo software. A box swap would be required in which would cost a heck of a lot. Perhaps all new MPEG-4 receivers would receive it.

If DirecTv was able to offer Tivo for $6 per receiver then why shouldnt Dish Network?

If all the Dish Network DVR's became boat anchors then there would be a slew of lawsuits (or class action) unless it was replaced with one at least as good. If the DVR prices would go up then a lot of people would switch providers for a better deal. They cannot raise DVR fees without a HUGE effect. I guess we can forget about seeing the DVR fee waived on the AEP package in the future if Dish has to start paying royalties to Tivo and perhaps another DVR fee increase (maybe another buck). I do NOT like the per receiver DVR fee.

Maybe Dish Network can make a deal if they do not get to buy them out in which they can waive all previous receivers made from having to get Tivo software if the software is required to get the service. Tivo would probably not make that a requirement though since all they would care about is the $$ money $$.

 

[ArtWIS]

Comcast will be rolling TiVo DVR's in the 3rd Qtr of this year. This is great news overall (well I am a TiVo Fan) and I hope an injunction will be grnted along with the suit against all DVR makers including DirecTV very very soon.

Directs new 3 year deal with TIVO includes a no lawsuit clause for the 3 years. I think D* is positioning for a TIVO buyout at the end of the 3 years.

 

[Pepper]

From the yahoo article:

The $87 million request was based on a financial consultant's estimate of how much TiVo would have earned if EchoStar had not sold more than 4 million of its own recorders using TiVo technology.

Probably anybody that has used both can tell that E* has NOT been using TiVo technology.

 

[abricko]

Tivo did not invent the DVR! They improved it (arguably, of course). Anyone who has used a non Tivo DVR can tell the difference and it's clear to see there is a difference... it's too bad this case wasn't held in another venue... instead we get rednecks giving approval to start another monopoly... Because Tivo *invented* the DVR no one else is allowed to build their own DVR and put their own software on it.

Tivo's business model has been wrong all along, that's why they haven't been successful, their product was decent (if not great in some areas) but how could they expect to make money charging a (high) monthly fee for guide data and the ability to re-encode / record TV? They have an add-on box, why would most people need it?

<sarcasm>I hope Tivo doesn't go after the home-brew PVRs and MythTV</sarcasm>

Dish has deep pockets, charlie has way too much pride to just pay up, they'll force tivo into numerous appeals and eventually dry up their little remaining resources.

 

[FunkyBoss]

Hell when Replay was for sale I was saying Dish was NUTS not to bid on it. The folks who won it got it for a song and a dance.

I'm completely with you there. The interface on the ReplayTV units I have is so much better then the Dish 942 I have.

 

[StevenD]

It's Texarkana - Half Texas- Half Arkansas.
Tom in TX

Actually...

Texarkana is named for being at the junction of three U.S. states: Texas, Arkansas, and Louisiana

 

[bcope9]

OK, let's look at this from another standpoint. MP3's and players have been out for years. However, Apple just happens to make the best one on the market, the iPod, in most peoples opinion. The iPod has become the generic name though for any MP3 player. We know that typically that the iPod uses itunes and everyone else uses Windows Media, but this is like the same thing. One company has become the generic. Can we see Apple suing Philips, RCA, Sony, etc? Just because their player is doing it better, yet others do it cheaper?
Hard drives have allowed us to "multi task" for years. Tivo is out of money and they went looking for the biggest competitor around. D* was already on board so they went for E* to try and get some money to stay in business.

 

[Curtis0620]

How many companies make an instant camera?

 

[treiher]

The whole thing disgusts me. TIVO failed because they tried to sell technology hardware as a service. It's not enough to sell the box, but you have to subscribe monthly and continue paying for nothing more than the ability to record, pause, skip forward, predict what you want to watch, etc. Nice stuff, but the real service comes from the company that actually provides the programming, without which TIVO would be useless. The TIVO fees were always way too much to pay for most people to get that in addition to your normal satellite or cable fees. The bottom line is, TIVO was a fancy and much improved VCR. How successful would VCR's have been if you had to pay a monthly fee in addition to the cost of the box just to use them? How successful would TIVO might have been if they just sold the box, no recurring fees? This type of thing happens all the time, companies think they can sell their product as a service when it is NOT A SERVICE. Whenever this is tried it fails. You have to be able to recognize the difference between service and enabling technology.

The concept was a failure, and so now they sue and dupe a jury to survive, and at the end of the day . . . we will all pay more for TIVO exec. management's inability to recognize THEIR failure to run a business and assume responsibility for that. The very fact that Direct TV has the three year deal with TIVO after all this pretty much convinces me never to switch to them. I don't want any part of that company's technology in my home, licensed or otherwise. Maybe I'll eventually have no choice, but for now I do.