TIVO wins E* Lawsuit - Potential Impact on ALL DVRs

[mike123abc]

The TiVo patent essentially describes continuing to record while viewing data from the past. This has been done for years in computers, files on the disk get written to over time and continuously update while they are read at the same time. TiVo claiming that somehow putting video data in a file and being able to view it at the same time recording is continuing makes it unique shows just how poorly the patent office understands the technology for which they grant patents.

Long before the patent for TiVo was applied for I used a device called a network sniffer, it would record all the traffic on the network, break down the information in real time and allow one to look at the traffic, going back and forth through time and viewing the packets while it continued to record the information coming over the network. It was used to debug things like network file systems and other TCP/IP programs. You could watch the packets go by, pause it, go back and forth and watch the packets again in the past going by. All the functionality of what TiVo claims is unique. Yeah the data being captured at the time was not video, but the whole "time warp" concept was there.

 

[Stargazer]

If Tivo sues Dish Network for this then they would have to sue all the other companies that made DVR's too if the lawsuit was for watching a previous show while another one is recording.

 

[kb7oeb]

OK, let's look at this from another standpoint. MP3's and players have been out for years. However, Apple just happens to make the best one on the market, the iPod, in most peoples opinion. The iPod has become the generic name though for any MP3 player. We know that typically that the iPod uses itunes and everyone else uses Windows Media, but this is like the same thing. One company has become the generic. Can we see Apple suing Philips, RCA, Sony, etc? Just because their player is doing it better, yet others do it cheaper?

What did apple invent on the ipod other than the encryption used for itunes? They licensed MP3 just like all the other MP3 players out there.

What did tivo invent? Everything they started with already existed, power pc computer, hard drive, MPEG2 encoder/decoder and an already written OS Linux.

This is the same crap like the TV guide grid patent,Amazon one click and the recent Netflix patent.

Is Tivo going to sue the open source offerings like Myth TV? Doubtful, but they could and that would make things really scary.

I doubt Tivo could do much to Mythtv, if I understand the DeCSS case mythtv should be protected as free speech since its distributed as source code. Also its not noncommercial so there is probably nobody worth suing.

 

[Stargazer]

Bell ExpressVu uses the Echostar receivers too so what effects Dish Network would probably affect them too.

 

[Kryspy]

Stargazer,

That is unsure for us up here in Canada. It may cause a premium to be applied to the price we pay for the ExpressVU 9200 receivers.

Tivo, unless they want to have their case heard in Canada really cannot affect any levies to us who already own and use the 9200 (942).

Reminds me of when MGM studios sent a e-mail to my ISP (Cogeco) demanding to know who owned this IP (mine) as I had downloaded 3 episodes of Dead Like Me in HD via bit torrents.

My ISP basically forwarded me their e-mail and their response which was basically a polite "Go to Hell".

Anywas point being as we all know US law has no bearing in Canada.

In the end I see Dish winning and appeal, throwing some shut up money at Tivo and then putting the final nail in their coffin by either buying them out or implementing more TIVO like functionality.

Shouldn't Ford sue every other car manufacturer now according to this patent?

Kryspy

 

[glennh73]

Who owns the DVD Patent? , who owns the CD-ROM patent, all this is big business controlling the market and never having competition.

Tivo wants to own the DVR market and be the only piece of equipment that records. So in hence they can charge any price they want and no one can ever create a better version cause of this patent.

Patents are good but then in cases like this, they are what is wrong with this country. No one can ever create anything cause you are worry about law suits. God i miss the good old days.

 

[dendavis]

So what happens if the injunction prohibiting E* from shipping DVR's is granted? Next March, when MPEG-4 becomes the only source for HD on E*, how 'bout those with the older 6000/921/942 boxes who did not/could not upgrade in time? Think Charlie will "do the right thing" and hold off on disposing of MPEG-2?--------nah!

 

[Kagato]

Stargazer,

That is unsure for us up here in Canada. It may cause a premium to be applied to the price we pay for the ExpressVU 9200 receivers.

Tivo, unless they want to have their case heard in Canada really cannot affect any levies to us who already own and use the 9200 (942).

Reminds me of when MGM studios sent a e-mail to my ISP (Cogeco) demanding to know who owned this IP (mine) as I had downloaded 3 episodes of Dead Like Me in HD via bit torrents.

My ISP basically forwarded me their e-mail and their response which was basically a polite "Go to Hell".

Anywas point being as we all know US law has no bearing in Canada.

In the end I see Dish winning and appeal, throwing some shut up money at Tivo and then putting the final nail in their coffin by either buying them out or implementing more TIVO like functionality.

Shouldn't Ford sue every other car manufacturer now according to this patent?

Kryspy

While Tivo may have to sue Bell in Canadian court, that doesn't mean they can't enjoin E* from shipping the DVRs to Bell.

As far as buying Tivo out? Not so simple. Their market cap is 679.36M. A buy out would mean paying a premium over the stock price. At least 750Mil. That's A LOT of change for some DVR IP. It's far cheaper to pay $1.15/mo per DVR like DirectTV does.

 

[bytre]

EchoStar witnesses said the company's box differed from TiVo's in several ways. "For one, we have initiatives to provide clunky software on our DVRs, and minimize the training for our technical support" said a representative of EchoStar legal firm, Dewey, Chetham, and Howe. "We want to appear to our customers as being like their friendly neighborhood cable company, only with a geeky dish to show off to their neighbors. We couldn't offer Tivo's feature set and polish and still seem like a cable co, could we?"

 

[ravensong]

EchoStar witnesses said the company's box differed from TiVo's in several ways. "For one, we have initiatives to provide clunky software on our DVRs, and minimize the training for our technical support" said a representative of EchoStar legal firm, Dewey, Chetham, and Howe. "We want to appear to our customers as being like their friendly neighborhood cable company, only with a geeky dish to show off to their neighbors. We couldn't offer Tivo's feature set and polish and still seem like a cable co, could we?"

LMFAO!

 

[minorthr]

Who owns the DVD Patent? , who owns the CD-ROM patent, all this is big business controlling the market and never having competition.

Tivo wants to own the DVR market and be the only piece of equipment that records. So in hence they can charge any price they want and no one can ever create a better version cause of this patent.

Patents are good but then in cases like this, they are what is wrong with this country. No one can ever create anything cause you are worry about law suits. God i miss the good old days.

I believe philips own the cd patent and I think they get a cut of every cd sold.

 

[PATONENOW]

EchoStar Could Dish Out Millions To TiVo By Laurie Sullivan
TechWeb.com
Fri Apr 14, 6:52 PM ET



A federal jury in Texas has awarded TiVo $74 million in damages in patent lawsuit against EchoStar Communications Corp.

The 10-member jury in the United States District Court Eastern District of Marshall, Texas said EchoStar willfully infringed on TiVo's Digital Video Recorder (DVR) patent.

In the lawsuit, TiVo alleged EchoStar infringed its patent that allows consumers to record one show while watching another. EchoStar denied wrongdoing and said it plans to appeal the decision.

EchoStar, known for DISH Network brand, issued a statement Thursday calling the verdict the "first step in a very long process." EchoStar said it was confident an appeal or a continuing U.S. Patent Office review of TiVo's technology would overturn the verdict.

"We believe the patent, as interpreted in this case, is overly broad given the technology in existence when TiVo filed its patent," the company said. "We believe the decision will be reversed."

TiVo said in a statement following the jury action on Thursday that it intends to seek a permanent injunction against EchoStar's DVR products, the company. The company said it holds more than 87 patents, with approximately 138 applications pending.

Earlier this week, TiVo and satellite provider DirectTV Group Inc. agreed to continue their relationship for another three years. The two companies also agreed not to file a patent suit against the other for the patent suite against the other for the duration of the agreement. Terms of the deal were not disclosed.

 

[bidger`]

I believe philips own the cd patent and I think they get a cut of every cd sold.

I believe SONY owns half as well.

 

[Frostwolf]

Actually, Kodak marketed one for a couple of years in the late '70s. Polaroid immediately filed suit and won 10 years later. Kodak was forced to buy back every single unit, as Polaroid refused to grant a license.

http://www.ozcamera.com/k-instant.html

Yeah we had one, made a lot better picture than polaroid too, but they never bought ours back.

 

[vurbano]

The stupidity of our legal system never ceases to amaze me. To think that someone could actually have a patent on a pause or rewind button or etc is absurd IMO.

 

[jayn_j]

The stupidity of our legal system never ceases to amaze me. To think that someone could actually have a patent on a pause or rewind button or etc is absurd IMO.

Well, as I said before, where do you judge innovation? Now that we are all used to it, pause of live TV is expected, but 10 years ago, nobody would have even considered the possibility. It was a lot more innovative than most of the patents granted these days.

Every idea is obvious once it has been implemented.

 

[jawilljr]

Well, as I said before, where do you judge innovation? Now that we are all used to it, pause of live TV is expected, but 10 years ago, nobody would have even considered the possibility. It was a lot more innovative than most of the patents granted these days.

Every idea is obvious once it has been implemented.

It is not innovative to use a MULTITASKING OS (Linux) to MULTITASK... To me that is quite obvious since Linux Multitasks so well...

They could have used Windows to multitask.

Jerry

 

[jayn_j]

It is not innovative to use a MULTITASKING OS (Linux) to MULTITASK... To me that is quite obvious since Linux Multitasks so well...

They could have used Windows to multitask.

Jerry

Sorry, the innovation is not in the way the concept was implemented, but rather in the concept itself. They didn't claim multitasking as an innovation. They made the claim of using a simple button to pause, skip through and resume live television. In my mind that was innovation. Apparently, the court agrees. I know that isn't the answer you want to hear, but they were the first to claim that use model.

Jerry, if not this, please tell me what you would consider a valid patentable idea, and let's then discuss the technology that it is built upon.

Jay "whose company lives and dies by its intellectual property"

 

[SaltiDawg]

I'm not aware of any cable companies who build their own DVRs or even the software for DVRs. Which cablecos are you referring to ??

Who is it that you think builds Dish's STB's? Maybe Tivo sued the wrong company and the courts didn't notice?

 

[Bulldog]

EchoStar witnesses said the company's box differed from TiVo's in several ways. "For one, we have initiatives to provide clunky software on our DVRs, and minimize the training for our technical support" said a representative of EchoStar legal firm, Dewey, Chetham, and Howe. "We want to appear to our customers as being like their friendly neighborhood cable company, only with a geeky dish to show off to their neighbors. We couldn't offer Tivo's feature set and polish and still seem like a cable co, could we?"

Amen:up