TIVO vs E*

[DodgerKing]

What I find Funny is EchoStar didn't even work with TIVO making DVRs, But yet perfected a Great DVR.
D* and Tivo were Partners,and look where that got them.
So why couldn't D* build a DVR with Tivo that wins awards?
I hate to say it But E* great DVRs, I doubt had much of any stolen Tivo knowledge.

It got them a much better DVR than the piece of junk TiVO, in performance, reliability, function, ease of use, interface, interactive features, and quality. I realize the HRs are not as good as the VIPs, but they are still a decent DVR and have some features that are better than the VIPs and some that are not as good. Both the VIPs and the HRs are better than a TiVO.

 

[DodgerKing]

So where is Directvs Tivo DVR? Why aren't the being made still to this day?
E* stole all the knowledge?

They're supposed to be coming. Don't ask me why anyone would want one (I guess it is due to familiarity and name recognition???)

 

[DodgerKing]

That might be true if tivo's DVRs were any good, but they're junk.

+1,000

 

[Tyralak]

Obviously they aren't, since E*'s DVR's with TiVo code are not.

And how long ago were those? It's a stupid comparison, because you're comparing an old, abandoned project with current technology. You're also assuming the small amount of code E* used from tivo in previous model receivers is what makes them great. Hoc ergo propter hoc. Think before you use logical fallacies in place of proof.

 

[vampz26]

Yes. E* DVRs did win awards alright. And all the bitter hate-mongering invectives in the world cannot change that.

I think the original HDtivo for D* won its share of awards too. Its a shame that D* pretty much sentenced them to obsolesence by announcing their mpeg4 plans right around the time it was released. What a huge disappointment that was. I waited over a year for that HDtivo only to say 'why bother'.

 

[KAB]

They're supposed to be coming. Don't ask me why anyone would want one (I guess it is due to familiarity and name recognition???)

2010.

 

[Curtis0620]

Yes. E* DVRs did win awards alright. And all the bitter hate-mongering invectives in the world cannot change that.

I think the original HDtivo for D* won its share of awards too. Its a shame that D* pretty much sentenced them to obsolesence by announcing their mpeg4 plans right around the time it was released. What a huge disappointment that was. I waited over a year for that HDtivo only to say 'why bother'.

You won't believe this, but I agree with you 100% on this one. They also limited the features of the SD Directivos.

 

[Curtis0620]

And how long ago were those? It's a stupid comparison, because you're comparing an old, abandoned project with current technology. You're also assuming the small amount of code E* used from tivo in previous model receivers is what makes them great. Hoc ergo propter hoc. Think before you use logical fallacies in place of proof.

Can you supply any proof that it was only a small amount of code.

 

[DodgerKing]

Yes. E* DVRs did win awards alright. And all the bitter hate-mongering invectives in the world cannot change that.

Give it up already...It is getting old

I think the original HDtivo for D* won its share of awards too. Its a shame that D* pretty much sentenced them to obsolesence by announcing their mpeg4 plans right around the time it was released. What a huge disappointment that was. I waited over a year for that HDtivo only to say 'why bother'.

Disagree. The HRs are hands down a better DVR than the TiVO in pretty much every possible way.

 

[Hemi 6.1]

It got them a much better DVR than the piece of junk TiVO, in performance, reliability, function, ease of use, interface, interactive features, and quality. I realize the HRs are not as good as the VIPs, but they are still a decent DVR and have some features that are better than the VIPs and some that are not as good. Both the VIPs and the HRs are better than a TiVO.

OK Exactly my point then. If Tivo sucked so bad, How can credit be giving to Tivo for E* HD DVR's Performance?

Lets hear it Curtis.
TIVO suck according to D* subscribers, But E* made and keeps on making fantastic DVRs.
So this is all because of Tivo?
Yea OK!

 

[Curtis0620]

Give it up already...It is getting old
Disagree. The HRs are hands down a better DVR than the TiVO in pretty much every possible way.

DLB.
Wishlists.
Recently Deleted Folder.
That is only on the DirecTivo.

Many more on the standalone.

 

[Curtis0620]

OK Exactly my point then. If Tivo sucked so bad, How can credit be giving to Tivo for E* HD DVR's Performance?

Lets hear it Curtis.
TIVO suck according to D* subscribers, But E* made and keeps on making fantastic DVRs.
So this is all because of Tivo?
Yea OK!

A D* subscriber, not all D* subscribers.

 

[Hemi 6.1]

Give it up already...It is getting old
Disagree. The HRs are hands down a better DVR than the TiVO in pretty much every possible way.

HD DVR's like the 10-250, I like some of the features better then the HR 20 had, SD DVRs though, Tivos are way better then the Junk D* puts out,R15,R16, I doubt the R22 is any different.

 

[Rey]

2010.

That's right :up hopefully for the tivo fans

 

[Rey]

HD DVR's like the 10-250, I like some of the features better then the HR 20 had, SD DVRs though, Tivos are way better then the Junk D* puts out,R15,R16, I doubt the R22 is any different.

i can tell you from personal experience that the HR21 worked better for me than the HR20. i really don't like the HR20 except that it has the ota tuners built in.

 

[Hemi 6.1]

A D* subscriber, not all D* subscribers.

Exactly, Because I didn't think the Tivo's Sucked. I had some harddrive issues with my 10-250, But was able to fix and upgrade my 10-250 for less the the $299 lease fee D* wanted for the HR 20. And that was the Biggest POS for the first year I had it.

 

[jacmyoung]

I have said this before, the reason why D* made the D*TiVo DVRs available before was the same reason why D* is not so eager to make the new D*TiVo available now.

Aside from the fact D* did not have a DVR at that time, the most important reason D* agreed to make those D*TiVo DVRs was to avoid a potential lawsuit from TiVo, and D* was smart about this, they ended up paying Tivo only about $0.90/mo. per D*TiVo DVR and got a bunch of TiVo fans to switch to D* service.

But as time went on, D* started to develop their own DVRs, and had some initial issues but managed to gradually improve their own DVRs, also in late 2007 D* purchased ReplayTV. Additionally, as 2008 came and went, it was clear TiVo had a lot of difficulties winning another case on E*. D* became less concerned about TiVo’s threat of litigation, and began to switch its D*TiVo subs to its own DVR service, and did so in mass quantities.

An interesting twist was, on 09/03/08, one day before TiVo and E* were to have the hearing to argue, among other things, the additional damages in the TX courtroom, TiVo and D* made a new release about a planned new MPEG4 D*TiVo DVR, to be release sometime in late 2009. And one big point in that news release was that the new agreement said D* would pay significantly higher monthly fees for those new D*TiVo DVRs, compared to the old D*TiVo DVRs.

Guess what, next day at the court, TiVo argued E* should pay another $220M damages, in part because the DVR rates had increased.

I had always speculated that so called new agreement between D* and TiVo was TiVo’s way to get at E*, and of course D* had no problem helping TiVo in that effort. But D* never was serious about developing this new MPEG4 DVR with TiVo.

Since that news release, we heard not one word, I literally mean not a single word, from D* about this new agreement, TiVo has been the only one who has been talking about this new D*TiVo DVR, but TiVo kept delaying the prospect, citing that D* would not make it available until D* also makes its own “new DVR platform” ready in 2010.

TiVo is desperate, they tried for almost a whole year but failed to get a contempt ruling out of the TX court against E*, while losing millions of D* TiVo subs, and most recently, TiVo has also begun to lose its own standalone net subs accounts, for the first time in its history.

I personally think TiVo DVRs are one of the best ones, so are E*’s VIPs, D* HR DVRs are behind, and the Motorola DVRs for the cable companies are the bottom feeders.

But this thread is not about who makes the best DVRs

 

[jacmyoung]

So now in my continued attempt to try to stick to the topic, please allow me to make another observation.

I believe in this most recent E* filing before the DE court, E* made a concession, in exchange for an agreement from the DE judge.

The concession is, if the TX judge should find E*’s new design only colorably different, meaning the design around is not so successful, E* will agree this new DE case will be moot. This is the same as saying E* will likely drop this new DE case.

But if the TX judge should find E*’s new design more than colorably different, then this new case should kick in, and then, E* argues that this new case should stay in the DE court.

But the DE judge’s decision whether to transfer this new case should be delayed, until the TX judge makes his ruling. Because if the TX judge finds the earlier not the latter, E* will drop this new case.

Logic says the DE judge should not waste time to make a decision until we know if this new case is moot or not, and that will not happen until the TX judge makes his ruling known.

I again like to point out that the above E*’s argument supported my two speculations from a long time ago:

1) E* filed this new case in preparation for the event that E* is successful in its design around effort;
2) E* is confident that their design around is successful, and they should be, as I have reasoned over and over why the design around was a success.

 

[DodgerKing]

HD DVR's like the 10-250, I like some of the features better then the HR 20 had, SD DVRs though, Tivos are way better then the Junk D* puts out,R15,R16, I doubt the R22 is any different.

Perhaps that maybe true. I am not familiar with those models.

 

[DodgerKing]

• DLB.

Wishlists.
Recently Deleted Folder.
That is only on the DirecTivo.

Many more on the standalone.

Those are nice features that many do like, although I personally do not like that Deleted Item Folder (which was added a few months ago) and the Wishlist. Although I do see how many would.

I don't want to turn this into a Direct vs. TiVO, but here are some features on the HRs (some of which appear on the TiVO and the VIP):

HRs interactive features:

• Many interactive game packages or game mix channels (LP, CI, EI, ST, MM, ex) with 8 channels
• Sports mix (8 channels)
• News mix (8 channels)
• VOD correlated with each channel (for example TLC is 280 so TLC VOD is 1280).
• The Weather Channel
• Internet programming
• DirecTV2PC
• Mediashare
• Game Search
• iPhone and other networking phone DVR programming
• MRV (CE only now)
• Caller ID

Other features I prefer on the HR over TiVO:

• The ability to switch between a recorded show and live show by pushing the Previous button
• The colored short cut buttons (changing favorites, mini guide, 9 favorite channels, ex)
• Guide sorting
• Hide SD duplicates
• Remote use with TV is easier
• Remote use with A/V receiver more interactive
• One button to turn off and on both TV and receiver at the same time
• Fewer menus and sub folders to navigate
• Fewer problems and crashes

I know the VIPs are faster and the guide features have even more options.