TIVO vs E*

[jacmyoung]

Since I don't have a crystal ball, I have no idea how much, if anything, they will get out of them.

As long as Charlie is not afraid of losing the money, he has every right to risk it and try to avoid paying or even win some. To criticize his such behavior is to turn one's back on capitalism

 

[riffjim4069]

E* needs to continue to fight the "Bull in the china shop". Tivo is the one that has done it's best to kill any company that comes out with any DVR. ReplayTV basically sold out to D* because they couldn't keep up in the field vs Tivo. Keep up the fight and hopefully win and maybe Tivo will be in a shoe's on the other foot situation. I want there to be more than 1 provider of DVR's in the world. Maybe the Judge in E. TX. will no longer be the place to file to get one's electronic way in the industry. He has seemed to always swing toward the plaintiff.

I agree...if this were 2005, but the fight has been fought and E* was TKO'ed by the USPTO, the Courts, and Tivo! As the CEO, Charlie Ergen has a responsibility to his shareholders (not to you, me, or anyone else) and he needs to act in their best interest. Industry experts have been urging Mr. Ergen to settle this matter with Tivo since 2006, but this maverick poker player has continued to push this matter in the courts, willfully ignored a court order to disable DVR functionallity in all infringing DVRs (yes, willfully disobeying a lawful order!), has cost the company untold tens of millions of dollars, and is on the verge of a major catastrophe should 3-4 million DVRs be downgraded.

Again, the time to fight is long over. It's time for Mr. Ergen to act responsibly and in the best interest if his shareholders. I bet the investors having 10 or 20 million dollars invested in E* would agree.

 

[jacmyoung]

Let's be open. What did the threats threaten to do? Was it a bomb scare? I mean if participants should be worried about their safety I think they have a right to know.

I am curious too, but it sounded to me whatever happened might have some legal implication, if so confidentiality may be in order. I hope it is not the case though.

 

[jacmyoung]

I agree...if this were 2005, but the fight has been fought and E* was TKO'ed by the USPTO, the Courts, and Tivo! As the CEO, Charlie Ergen has a responsibility to his shareholders (not to you, me, or anyone else) and he needs to act in their best interest. Industry experts have been urging Mr. Ergen to settle this matter with Tivo since 2006, but this maverick poker player has continued to push this matter in the courts, willfully ignored a court order to disable DVR functionallity in all infringing DVRs (yes, willfully disobeying a lawful order!), has cost the company untold tens of millions of dollars, and is on the verge of a major catastrophe should 3-4 million DVRs be downgraded.

Again, the time to fight is long over. It's time for Mr. Ergen to act responsibly and in the best interest if his shareholders. I bet the investors having 10 or 20 million dollars invested in E* would agree.

If the fight were long over, the shareholders would have long had the opportunity to decide what was the best for them, to continue to invest in E*, or to quit. After all, the investment in E* had made a lot of money for those investors in the past, they knew long ago what Charlie would likely do. No one is forcing them to continue to invest. In fact I read here and there some had sold their E* stocks, apparently many continue to invest still.

As long as you have a choice, then take the responsibility of your own, don't blame him for not being responsible to you. Capitalism 101.

If a TiVo investor constantly gets pissed by Charlie's behavior and some comments in this thread and elsewhere, making him so on edge he loses his cool from time to time, maybe investing in TiVo is not good for his health. Maybe investing in stocks is not good for his health.

 

[Greg Bimson]

E* needs to continue to fight the "Bull in the china shop". Tivo is the one that has done it's best to kill any company that comes out with any DVR. ReplayTV basically sold out to D* because they couldn't keep up in the field vs Tivo.

TiVo has "killed" other DVR companies? ReplayTV didn't die because of TiVo. TiVo and ReplayTV agreed to drop their litigation against each other. A few months later, SonicBlue filed for bankruptcy. D&M Holdings bought up most of ReplayTV, and within the past two years, DirecTV purchased the ReplayTV patents from D&M Holdings.

That is far from TiVo putting ReplayTV out of existance.

Maybe the Judge in E. TX. will no longer be the place to file to get one's electronic way in the industry. He has seemed to always swing toward the plaintiff.

A jury in eastern Texas found infringement. A judge in eastern Texas found infringement during a contempt proceeding based on the testimony from the trial. And the eastern Texas docket has lately been a panacea for finding not guilty of infringement.

 

[riffjim4069]

If the fight were long over, the shareholders would have long had the opportunity to decide what was the best for them, to continue to invest in E*, or to quit. After all, the investment in E* had made a lot of money for those investors in the past, they knew long ago what Charlie would likely do. No one is forcing them to continue to invest. In fact I read here and there some had sold their E* stocks, apparently many continue to invest still.

As long as you have a choice, then take the responsibility of your own, don't blame him for not being responsible to you. Capitalism 101.

So besides being wrong about almost every facet of this case for the past 5-years you're now condoning irresponsible and potentially negligent behavior by a CEO? Your statement about investor choice is akin to a drunken driver running down someone and your telling the victim's family next time they have an option to stay off the roads and sidewalks so they don't get pancaked by Charlie during one of his drunken binges. The proper response would be to tell Mr. Ergen not to drink & drive and mow down innocent pedestrians, and hold him personally accountable for his actions. That's Capitalism 102.

Anyway, I do own both EchoStar and Tivo stock in my portfolio so both parties are accountable to me in some small fashion. Although some investers are free to withdraw their money from EchoStar, most would like to know their hard earned funds are being used wisely and in a responsible manner, and that the CEO isn't squandering tens if not hundreds of millions because he's "stubborn" and doesn't like the Tivo ruling. EchoStar should have settled this matter years...instead, they are now find themselves in a very difficult situation with a very real possibility that 3-4 million DVRs will be downgraded. Or course, when that happens I am sure that some people will blame Tivo.

The only reason we are even discussing Tivo versus E* here in mid-2009 is because one man, and only one man.

Anyway, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree yet again...

 

[riffjim4069]

TiVo has "killed" other DVR companies? ReplayTV didn't die because of TiVo. TiVo and ReplayTV agreed to drop their litigation against each other. A few months later, SonicBlue filed for bankruptcy. D&M Holdings bought up most of ReplayTV, and within the past two years, DirecTV purchased the ReplayTV patents from D&M Holdings.

That is far from TiVo putting ReplayTV out of existance.A jury in eastern Texas found infringement. A judge in eastern Texas found infringement during a contempt proceeding based on the testimony from the trial. And the eastern Texas docket has lately been a panacea for finding not guilty of infringement.

Thanks once again for providing members with facts and putting this case into proper perspective. :

 

[Martin Tupper]

I just wish the ignore feature also ignored any posts that quoted the ignored poster. Maybe there's a software improvement in the works.

That sounds good too but it has nothing to do with what I suggested.

What you have suggested is to provide a legitimate way to force people to read one's own biased views without allowing any challenge.

That person will simply put posters who disagree with him on ignore, he will then be free to say what he wants and those who disagree may not respond. This is not China.

I don't think that's an accurate description of Thomas22's suggestion.

 

[jacmyoung]

...Your statement about investor choice is akin to a drunken driver running down someone and your telling the victim's family next time they have an option to stay off the roads and sidewalks so they don't get pancaked by Charlie during one of his drunken binges. The proper response would be to tell Mr. Ergen not to drink & drive and mow down innocent pedestrians, and hold him personally accountable for his actions. That's Capitalism 102.

The proper analogy should be, if he is a "known drunken driver" and had paid for his DUI offense before, then it is your responsibility to determine if next time you think he is on a "drunken binge", whether you should ride in the same car with him or not. Don't blame him for your injury if he crashes again, in fact if you decide to ride with him despite the fact you know he is drunk, you may be responsible for the damages too

 

[jacmyoung]

I don't think that's an accurate description of Thomas22's suggestion.

What do you think Thomas22? Maybe I should have quoted riffjim4069?

 

[rockymtnhigh]

Guys, drop it about the ignore features, and your requests for it. It is off-topic entirely.

 

[long_time_DNC]

Do you guys realize (or even care?) that in order to find out any useful information on this topic, I had to google it and read info on other sites because all that's going on in here is just a bunch of B.S!

In 10 minutes on other sites, I found out what was going on with the case and I had to spend almost an hour reading through a buncha garbage and OT bickering here just to get some minorly useful details.

I understand that everyone has opinions, thoughts, ideas (subjective and otherwise), but c'mon already...can't we have more substance and less conjecture, please???

I come here to find out stuff (which 95% of the time works out just great), but this thread is a freakin' nightmare...almost as bad as the Voom thread was...

 

[whatchel1]

Wikipedia version?

TiVo has "killed" other DVR companies? ReplayTV didn't die because of TiVo. TiVo and ReplayTV agreed to drop their litigation against each other. A few months later, SonicBlue filed for bankruptcy. D&M Holdings bought up most of ReplayTV, and within the past two years, DirecTV purchased the ReplayTV patents from D&M Holdings.

That is far from TiVo putting ReplayTV out of existance.A jury in eastern Texas found infringement. A judge in eastern Texas found infringement during a contempt proceeding based on the testimony from the trial. And the eastern Texas docket has lately been a panacea for finding not guilty of infringement.

The 1st statement sounds like your source is Wikipedia version and yes have read that. About the judge and jury not sure either know enough about the products to understand more than they both record and playback using a hard drive. I think that is part of the basis for the continuation of the fight that is going on. And I have no idea how it would be possible to educate a jury well enough for them to understand the intricacy of the technology. Before anyone jumps down my throat for that one I work with TV-sat & PC and I'm not sure that I completely understand the very slight differences.

 

[rockymtnhigh]

Do you guys realize (or even care?) that in order to find out any useful information on this topic, I had to google it and read info on other sites because all that's going on in here is just a bunch of B.S!

In 10 minutes on other sites, I found out what was going on with the case and I had to spend almost an hour reading through a buncha garbage and OT bickering here just to get some minorly useful details.

I understand that everyone has opinions, thoughts, ideas (subjective and otherwise), but c'mon already...can't we have more substance and less conjecture, please???

I come here to find out stuff (which 95% of the time works out just great), but this thread is a freakin' nightmare...almost as bad as the Voom thread was...

No, they don't care Joe, and I am not even convinced that we should continue the thread. Just shut it down, and open up something when there is some actual news. Or just keep a sticked thread (locked) with updates as they occur. As letting the inmates run the asylum doesn't seem to be working.

 

[Ronnie-]

Sorry If I missed this, but has the threats topic been covered again? Is there another thread for it?
I am just curious.

 

[rockymtnhigh]

no. nothing to worry about. Just idiots with big heads.

 

[Ronnie-]

no. nthing to worry about. Just idiots with big heads.

Good enough for me.
:up

 

[rockymtnhigh]

And folks, if you want to discuss the politics of this lawsuit, I would strongly recommend you check out SonicBabble.com - where you can discuss and debate the politics of this to your hearts content. Its run by one of our supporting members, and is open to all ideological viewpoints.

We have allowed this thread to get out of control, and to get way too deeply mired in the politics of a (possibly) corrupt patent system, claims of an unethical judge; etc, etc... That stuff is going to end. Our rules clearly state that political discussion is not permitted at satelliteguys.

The time has come to reign in the b.s.

 

[vampz26]

No, they don't care Joe, and I am not even convinced that we should continue the thread. Just shut it down, and open up something when there is some actual news. Or just keep a sticked thread (locked) with updates as they occur. As letting the inmates run the asylum doesn't seem to be working.

Speaking as one off the big-headed idiots...I do agree that this thread has run its course. We've seen constant repetition of legal rhetoric, sycophantic praise to the like minded, my over-the-top melodrama, and a veritable blood-bath of troll bannings.

If there is a thread in this forum that has run its course and back again it is this one. I'm honored to have been a part of it, and yes...even a wee-bit ashamed.

But none-the-less, I'm not going to think twice about writing "Tivo vs. E*: The Movie" in time for a summer release...

 

[Ronnie-]

And folks, if you want to discuss the politics of this lawsuit, I would strongly recommend you check out SonicBabble.com - where you can discuss and debate the politics of this to your hearts content. Its run by one of our supporting members, and is open to all ideological viewpoints.

We have allowed this thread to get out of control, and to get way too deeply mired in the politics of a (possibly) corrupt patent system, claims of an unethical judge; etc, etc... That stuff is going to end. Our rules clearly state that political discussion is not permitted at satelliteguys.

The time has come to reign in the b.s.

Here is a link to the thread set up for it if interested.

Tivo and E*. Talk about patent laws and the court system - SonicBabble - Where America Debates America!