TIVO vs E*

[Greg Bimson]

So long as DVRs exist that apparently don't infringe (like D* or cable) there will always be a better mousetrap waiting in the wings.

By definition, a DVR that doesn't infringe must have had that fact verified. What company has been in front of a judge to concur their product doesn't infringe TiVo's patent?

If that is an arugment, it starts with a very bad assumption.

The reality is that the only DVR's that have had the question of infringement tested have been found to infringe. To use the analogy, the cart comes after the horse.

 

[shodobe]

Much clearer air now. Thank you.

Don't like other opinions that don't go along yours? No matter if right or wrong, if clear or muddy, everyone has an opinion. I didn't see anything he said to be absurd or demeaning to you. Ignore people and you are opening yourself to more criticism than you you will really will want.

 

[Mainer_Ayah]

Yeah, well the Slingbox I have performs a lot of the same network integration, and now that the 922 is close to coming out, it will be even more advanced.


As far as Charlie goes; its not about meeting him; its about observing what he has done over the years for the DBS industry. He is truly a satellite pioneer; and I think has a vision for the future that is exciting. Just wait for the 922, with its sling-enabled technology; the satellite receiver to end all receivers (AND since its being made by Echostar, it will be able to sell to the cable industry too). I think TiVO is well aware of the threat that Charlie Ergen and Echostar represent. And it should never underestimate him.

The 922 royalties should do wonders for TiVo's bottom line.

 

[Greg Bimson]

So long as DVRs exist that apparently don't infringe (like D* or cable) there will always be a better mousetrap waiting in the wings.

Now that I've thought about this, this is completely incorrect.

DirecTV and TiVo signed a longer-term agreement last year to agree not to file suit against each other for patent infringement. So it certainly cannot be said that a DirecTV DVR doesn't infringe; the clause in the agreement points that it may. That same clause may also be applied to TiVo and their possible infringement of the ReplayTV patents acquired by DirecTV.

Which is why business deals are always better than not. DISH/SATS' largest court cases involved infringement with parties where there was no business relationship (TiVo and the distant networks).

 

[vampz26]

By definition, a DVR that doesn't infringe must have had that fact verified. What company has been in front of a judge to concur their product doesn't infringe TiVo's patent?

If that is an arugment, it starts with a very bad assumption.

The reality is that the only DVR's that have had the question of infringement tested have been found to infringe. To use the analogy, the cart comes after the horse.

Lol...remember what I said about tech first, law second...or the law fails? What you said illustrates that perfectly.

If you're saying that a dvr infringes if a judge says so, well then...that is a bad argument!

Let me make this easy on you greg. Your reliance on 'legal' is your achilles heal in these ongoing discussions. So long as I consider the system corrupt and have adequate testimony to support the claim, you have nothing to say to me from the legal side that will mean anything, and as you have seen, its all to easy for mr to turn it around against you.

You would need to redeem the courts and prove them infallible before any of your testimony has an significant meaning. This is the real world, not the courtroom where reality gets fabricated on a daily basis.

 

[Thomas22]

The 922 royalties should do wonders for TiVo's bottom line.

That's for sure.

 

[vampz26]

That's for sure.

Much to my point of tivo attempting to profit off the innovations of others...

Why I consider them unethical.

 

[Greg Bimson]

If you're saying that a dvr infringes if a judge says so, well then...that is a bad argument!

Infringement is a legal term. It would be up to a court to determine if something infringes. Conversely, it would be up to a court to determine if a device does not infringe. If the question isn't tested (unless an admission by the patent holder that a device doesn't infringe), then it cannot be stated something does or does not infringe.

But if the question needs to be answered, it is up to a court and ultimately a judge. And if there are errors, it is up to the appeals court. And if there are errors there, ultimately the Supreme Court.

There are checks and balances everywhere.

 

[dfergie]

We have received veiled threats about this thread and have taken appropriate action following our TOS...

 

[dfergie]

Honest & Open Discussion is welcome, but please keep things civil...and not Pit like...

 

[Thomas22]

We have received veiled threats about this thread and have taken appropriate action following our TOS...

Let's be open. What did the threats threaten to do? Was it a bomb scare? I mean if participants should be worried about their safety I think they have a right to know.

 

[riffjim4069]

Tivos problem extend from relying of a flawed business model. They are basically in the business of selling vaporware at the moment.

Your observation is not far from the truth! Instead to continuing to design, build and sell innovative DVR products, Tivo has opted to go the patent (aka legal extortion) route. What a shame because the Tivo Series 3 (with additional features such as YouTube, Netflix, etc.) is almost as good as the ViP series DVRs. Similarly, while Dish Network has been doing some impressive work with their DVR products, they somehow feel they are above the law and their business model of "it's cheaper to litigate than to do business above the board" is no longer working.

 

[riffjim4069]

I just wish the ignore feature also ignored any posts that quoted the ignored poster. Maybe there's a software improvement in the works.

I agree...if you ignore a member they shouldn't be able to read any of your postings. What good is the ignore feature if the person being ignored can continue to read, quote and reply to your posts? I have been asking Scott to implement this feature for the past 3-4 years, but I guess it's not something that can be easily done with vBulletin.

 

[Thomas22]

I agree...if you ignore a member they shouldn't be able to read any of your postings. What good is the ignore feature if the person being ignored can continue to read, quote and reply to your posts? I have been asking Scott to implement this feature for the past 3-4 years, but I guess it's not something that can be easily done with vBulletin.

That sounds good too but it has nothing to do with what I suggested.

 

[riffjim4069]

I think TiVO is well aware of the threat that Charlie Ergen and Echostar represent. And it should never underestimate him.

This statement was true in the past, but at this point I think Tivo is well away of the "gravy train" that Charlie Ergen and EchoStar represent to them. Again, while I do not believe in the Tivo patents, the days for E* to settle this matter inexpensively (a relative term) are long gone. At this point I suspect Tivo will get more than a billion dollars (total) out of E* before all is said and done.

 

[rockymtnhigh]

This statement was true in the past, but at this point I think Tivo is well away of the "gravy train" that Charlie Ergen and EchoStar represent to them. Again, while I do not believe in the Tivo patents, the days for E* to settle this matter inexpensively (a relative term) are long gone. At this point I suspect Tivo will get a billion dollars (total) out of E* before all is said and done.

Since I don't have a crystal ball, I have no idea how much, if anything, they will get out of them.

 

[riffjim4069]

That sounds good too but it has nothing to do with what I suggested.

Doh! I read too much into it...

 

[whatchel1]

Bull

Your observation is not far from the truth! Instead to continuing to design, build and sell innovative DVR products, Tivo has opted to go the patent (aka legal extortion) route. What a shame because the Tivo Series 3 (with additional features such as YouTube, Netflix, etc.) is almost as good as the ViP series DVRs. Similarly, while Dish Network has been doing some impressive work with their DVR products, they somehow feel they are above the law and their business model of "it's cheaper to litigate than to do business above the board" is no longer working.

E* needs to continue to fight the "Bull in the china shop". Tivo is the one that has done it's best to kill any company that comes out with any DVR. ReplayTV basically sold out to D* because they couldn't keep up in the field vs Tivo. Keep up the fight and hopefully win and maybe Tivo will be in a shoe's on the other foot situation. I want there to be more than 1 provider of DVR's in the world. Maybe the Judge in E. TX. will no longer be the place to file to get one's electronic way in the industry. He has seemed to always swing toward the plaintiff.

 

[jacmyoung]

...If you want to talk about a company that depends upon litigation for it's survival, go look at your post regarding the oh great charlie and hid litigous nature. The guy is a lawyer-courtroom junky.

When one say a company depends on litigation for survival, the precondition is this company must sue others first. Charlie has been mostly sued by the others, so the definition does not apply.

What I would say is, because his "unusual business approach" and his risk taking behavior, he has be sued by the others a lot, and his survival in such litigations is dependent on the money from his DBS business, but not the other way around.

His business can do just fine without these lawuits against him. Therefore his company is not dependent on these lawsuits.

 

[jacmyoung]

That sounds good too but it has nothing to do with what I suggested.

What you have suggested is to provide a legitimate way to force people to read one's own biased views without allowing any challenge.

That person will simply put posters who disagree with him on ignore, he will then be free to say what he wants and those who disagree may not respond. This is not China.