The forgotten orbital location?

[alebowgm]

Hey guys,

Just looking over the slides from the retailer chat the other day and it got me thinking. If Eastern Arc is going to be 61.5+72.7+77 and Western Arc is going to be 110+119+129, with all of the international stations located at 118.75, what does Dish intend to do with the 148 orbital location? With E2 biting the dust a few weeks ago, E1 is holding the load on an orbital location that has some small DMA locals in MPEG 2, a pair of MPEG 4 locals for Alaska and a slew of international stations that are being moved off the dish. While Dish Network has primarily used the location for testing, does anyone (Scott?) have any idea what is going to happen out on 148, especially considering the fact that it does not look like their is a replacement dish that is going to be built for 148 anytime soon. I know those out in Alaska/Hawaii have always hoped that 148 (along with the departed 157) were setup for a non-Conus service since the look angles are better out there, but is that actually something that may occur because the more I think about it, the more I think Dish may be getting ready to move the DMAs that are on 148 over to 129 once Ciel 2 is in place and abandoning the 'old reliable'.

I am aware this is going to cause a lot of speculation as Dish has not been definitive about this orbital location in the public eye, but any educated guesses are welcome!

 

[HDRoberts]

Given the FCC's "use it or lose it" policy, I wouldn't think Dish would want to abandon it, lest Directv snatch it up. I wouldn't think we would ever see too much on there, though. No CONUS capability, and not enough potential Alaska and Hawaii customers to give it its own brand new sat just for them.

I personally think 121 is the forgotten location. Yeah, its non-standard DBS, but it is still Dish's own sat (partially). Couldn't Dish come up with a way to use this to expand capacity? I guess they are content to let this be commercial use only.

 

[Mr Tony]

Dish is subleasing 121 right now to various folks for feeds

 

[HDRoberts]

Yeah, I know. But given they will soon be hurting for space, seems a questionable use for the sat. Doesn't it even have a Ka spotbeam payload?

 

[TNGTony]

The 121º location (and 105º) was a total failure due to the size of the dish needed and the complexity of the install. Dish tried with this location for quite some time and failed miserably!

See ya
Tony

 

[HDRoberts]

Is the Superdish really that much bigger than the Slimline?

Seems the Echostar 9 satellite was a waste as far as expanding DBS type services.

 

[dlsnyder]

Didn't Dish also have some slots at 166 a few years back? I don't think they ever put a sat there though.

 

[mike123abc]

Dish had some tps on 157 but gave them up.

148's main problem is that it is not CONUS and right now Dish needs CONUS(48). If they are going to get a satellite up it needs to go to the CONUS locations. If there was not such a backlog of launches, Dish would probably do something with that slot. Right now Dish can barely get satellites up to cover its main slots.

 

[nelson61]

Hey guys,

Just looking over the slides from the retailer chat the other day and it got me thinking. If Eastern Arc is going to be 61.5+72.7+77 and Western Arc is going to be 110+119+129, with all of the international stations located at 118.75, what does Dish intend to do with the 148 orbital location? '.......I know those out in Alaska/Hawaii have always hoped that 148 (along with the departed 157) were setup for a non-Conus service since the look angles are better out there, but is that actually something that may occur because the more I think about it, the more I think Dish may be getting ready to move the ........DMAs that are on 148 over to 129 once Ciel 2 is in place and abandoning the 'old reliable'. .....I am aware this is going to cause a lot of speculation as Dish has not been definitive about this orbital location in the public eye, but any educated guesses are welcome!

WE know that E1 is at end of life. We know E has one one new satellite scheduled for end of next year (E14). We know that Ciel is advertising to sell capacity on a new satellite at 138 and we know about the failed launch for 61.5 with probable replacement being either E14 or E15.. Also know that E8 will be freed up when Quezsat launches and E6 should be freed up when Nimiq 5 launches. We also know from posts here that Hawaii is not happy and that the FCC has a 50 state full service policy. And , finally we know that E says that E10 is mission critical (spots) and that they will be in very serious business position if it were to fail since it has no current backup. Now - how does 148 fit into that set of information?

 

[alebowgm]

Given the FCC's "use it or lose it" policy, I wouldn't think Dish would want to abandon it, lest Directv snatch it up. I wouldn't think we would ever see too much on there, though. No CONUS capability, and not enough potential Alaska and Hawaii customers to give it its own brand new sat just for them.

I personally think 121 is the forgotten location. Yeah, its non-standard DBS, but it is still Dish's own sat (partially). Couldn't Dish come up with a way to use this to expand capacity? I guess they are content to let this be commercial use only.

You are right on the lack of CONUS availability because of the low elevation on the east coast, but I was under the interpretation that out in Hawaii and Alaska the angle for 148 (Along with 157) was actually pretty good.

I just think that since E1 is past its end-of-life, Dish is going to be in trouble if it decides to go the way of E2 since they dont have anything that can move out there right now from the looks of it (unless they purchase/rent a satellite that can cover the frequencies).

And with E9 @ 121, I think Dish is probably making some good money renting it out to movie theatres and other business clients.

 

[HDRoberts]

You are right on the lack of CONUS availability because of the low elevation on the east coast, but I was under the interpretation that out in Hawaii and Alaska the angle for 148 (Along with 157) was actually pretty good.

Hawaii and Alaska do have good views of 148 and 157. The issue I see is are there really enough potential customers to justify a new sat at either location just to serve them? Probably not, which is why 148 will probably only see space junk.

 

[alebowgm]

Hawaii and Alaska do have good views of 148 and 157. The issue I see is are there really enough potential customers to justify a new sat at either location just to serve them? Probably not, which is why 148 will probably only see space junk.

I did some reading somewhere on the forums or elsewhere on the net recently where I saw a price comparison of HD in Alaska/Hawaii versus CONUS and it was a significant difference. If Dish were able to add service there via 148 and even 129 - and do it as a price that is lower than what is already availble up north or on the island - then maybe it would be worth it.

Regardless, I am really wondering what Dish will potentially do when E1 bites the dust. When Ciel2 goes active at 129, maybe E5 will move over to 148 to help with the load there? I don't see E6 moving from 72.7 when N5 gets launched as it can serve as an all purpose backup for E3 and E8.

 

[HDRoberts]

Regardless, I am really wondering what Dish will potentially do when E1 bites the dust. When Ciel2 goes active at 129, maybe E5 will move over to 148 to help with the load there? I don't see E6 moving from 72.7 when N5 gets launched as it can serve as an all purpose backup for E3 and E8.

E5 is headed to the graveyard when Ciel-2 is in place. It is almost out of gas. If E1 fails, I don;t know what they could use to sit on those licenses.

 

[alebowgm]

E5 is headed to the graveyard when Ciel-2 is in place. It is almost out of gas. If E1 fails, I don;t know what they could use to sit on those licenses.

I don't necessairly agree. Obviously E5 is on its last legs, but I am sure Echostar will sqweeze every last bit of juice out of that satellite. If that means being a backup at 129 or 148, so be it, but until it fully bites the dust like E2 did, I am sure it will stay up there in a reserve status.

 

[MikeD-C05]

I say deorbit and let it burn up in the atmosphere. Echostar 5 is a wobbly disaster of a satellite.

 

[navychop]

E5 will be sent to a graveyard orbit. Very little fuel left, and they are required to retain enough fuel to put it in a safe (graveyard) orbit. I doubt they could get much more life out of it, and can't risk another failure while trying to move one. IMHO.

 

[DishSatUser]

Mmm, Gravy yard orbit......

Some day, perhaps not to long with the launch of Virgin Galactic, we'll see commercial space ventures that do real "salvage".

Using some kinda drift net, they could pull in all that older "space junk" and do metals reclamation or even "remanufacture" of older SATs to resell. Amazing the amount of platinum, gold and other materials in SATs, especially some of the earlier models.