Streaming with Blockbuster Thread
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All 4 movies I have tested are still in "My Rentals" for days.. No problem with the streaming end of this service. But the interface still sucks.. The limited titles are another problem.. At this time, I will not be cancelling my Netflix Streaming account.. I hold hope that Dish will fix the interface with something that actually looks like it belongs in the 21st century..
Same here all movies vanish the next morning after the receiver updates. In fact anytime there is a reboot , the movies vanish. I tried to watch Free "No Strings Attached" this morning and it started instantly and about 10 minutes into the movies it ends. I deleted it and tried again ,and the same point in the movie it stops and ends. Still some bugs in the way it works.
I had the same type of issue when I was downloading "Quigley Down Under".When I was downloading it caught up with the buffering,so I pressed the stop button on my remote,figure I would watch it later.When I returned to watch it later there was only what I viewed previously.
I have to admit, these BB-related threads are extremely active and I haven't even been trying to keep up. Have any DIRT members offered any input to the 'streaming vs downloading' or movies taking up HDD space, etc comments ? I know they've gotten involved in account issues tying BB to Dish or 1-disc/2-disc/3-disc plans.
I have (had ?) (3) movies in the "My Rentals" section and they've been there, in the case of two of them, since Saturday. The 3rd one, Apocolypse Now Redux, has been there since Sunday or Monday. I'll see if they're still there this evening.
First, in response to HALL ... if you haven't seen it yet ... Scott posted a PDF that has a matrix and FAQ in it about the hows and whys of blockbuster movie pass, dish cinema, IPVOD etc..
Linked here: http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-network-forum/268336-list-movie-technology-used-dish.html
That PDF would be something folks can get accustomed to .. referring to it as needed..KEY POINTS
Now.. thread to this point discussion seems to suggest one or two things..
Dish (sorry Dish IRT) is not the greatest at getting information out to customers, and especially when problems like this come up.. Dish is going to try to consolidate information .. but they would hold onto what they are seeing as patterns.. meanwhile the rest of the people could see that same pattern if dish was more open .. etc.. or allowing other users to see the same is happening with someone else, or how someone else's problem is different from our own..
Lastly (yeah I know too long already) those who have said "oh but its only been out a week" STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR DISH ... dish has had this conceptually planed for some time now.. (scott even had the announcement the middle of last month? so dish has been working on this AT LEAST since they bought blockbuster, if not before that!) and they've executed something that is CLEARLY not up to par with the other options out there. LEAST of which is that its not available on their "flagship" 922 receiver, but even more so, that Dish doesn't have the infrastructure testing ability so that they can quickly nip things in the bud (my suggestion for the "Connection Testing" app, and more than just a "yup its connected" diagnostic)
I'm not trying to brow beat dish in this.. but really .. some simple things could have been done and a lot of our user frustration would have been eliminated ... its the same problem dish has been having over and over again ...
(I await your angry letters)
Linked here: http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-network-forum/268336-list-movie-technology-used-dish.html
That PDF would be something folks can get accustomed to .. referring to it as needed..KEY POINTS
- 922 / 622 (or 612) not currently setup to do BBMP
- 622 or 612 (sorry not 100% clear due to mistake in their publication) does not currently have DVR - 3 as BBMP .. but that should be redressed soon.
Figuring I *HAD* the current update for my 722k before the BBMP started, and nothing changed in version numbers for firmware from PRE or POST BBMP Oct 1 .. except that the DVR-3 button now shows BBMP ... so that suggests in some receivers they have the ability to redress the button texts *without* a firmware update ... and yet others might still require a firmware update to get the button texts to change
. - BBMP titles and others are the same as before .. they download to the drive ... they may appear to only buffer but .. they may stay until deleted or may automatically delete based on time alloted (ie 24 hr, 48 hr, rental as opposed to limited 30day etc) but at no time are they "Stream Only" The appearance of streaming is only because the cosmic gods have lined up and gotten it to you as fast as it could be seen.
This is fact, so stop bitching and arguing whether its streamed or stored, its always to the drive ... taking up any available storage space in case you watch it a second time, or want to start and stop and start again... etc.. (it says so .. the PDF pg 3 of 7 at the bottom "other important information")
. - To date, BBMP is not a non-Dish "device enabled" option .. you have Blockbuster on your Bluray ... how nice for you, this current Dish offer is *NOT* linked to that, and again, dish is behind the cure on that... so please stop asking how to set it up for your X device, it isn't and won't be included yet.
Now.. thread to this point discussion seems to suggest one or two things..
- Dish needs to make a Test Your Streaming Ability App, and have it built in on all of their DVR's and any unit they intend to use with any Online Stream offering ... from this short 200+ post thread this should be BLATENTLY obvious as users have complained they can't get *ANY* "instant" stream for them ... (yes I do mean to say for SOME users they can't get ANYTHING streamed quickly, while there are other users that can) and they have no clue whether the problem is their internet connection speed, their location of Dish's Server Farm, or their Homeplug, Wireless, or Wired connection that is slowing their ability.
Without a way to test *FROM* the receivers' point of view, users and Dish (proper or IRT) are getting no valid "speed" related data. And this app that they should put in the firmware should enable the option to test to several sites, not just dish, perhaps if they included a "traced path" type option so that a tech could get a report of any hops in the path that are doggedly slow.. it would help to explain the problem to the customer as to why its not "dish's" fault (and dish should not lie or cover up the truth when it is a dish capacity issue).
. - Users need to start taking stock of what they have and how they are connected.
- Powerline / Homeplug connectors *CAN* achieve speeds in the 10 to 20 to 100 megabit range for streaming ... but if you can't test the speed from the Device (Dish Receiver) out to the internet, then you have NO ability to gauge just how much bandwidth your Dish Receiver is actually getting
- Mindful of the above.. Users having problems with streaming need to try other connection types to see if they get any better results
- IF YOU ARE HAVING PROBLEMS, when you post, not just for help but as a "I'm not getting what you get" type post ... then please post additional information rather than just make a blanket statement...
.- How is the Dish Receiver physically connected into your network? you need to add some detail on how you're connected, not just your overall internet speed (comcast 6m down/1meg up tells people *NOTHING* about how that equates to your Dish Receiver's connection), or at least reference somewhere so people can look to see what you have
some members have that kind of extended information in their TAGs at the bottom of their posts.. reference your tag line if you want someone to look at it for that kind of info, please don't assume everyone sees your tags or knows you're listing more than a quip, jibe, or how awesome your Dish & HT setup is, oh and did that HT setup info include network connection of that dish receiver?
. - Internet connection (who it is, whats the speed you're contracted for)
. - please list your titles ... "everything doesn't work" so you literally went in and tried *EVERY* movie, every tv show, etc.. obviously not.. so tell us which titles..
. - More detail may be needed ... brand & model of DSL & Cable modems, Gateway Devices (soho linksys, dlink, netgear .. these are usually router/firewall combos or router/firewall/wireless combos) and the brands and models of any bridge devices wireless dongles, etc..
in that vein .. if you get your information collected, you're not running back to your devices every time a new question comes up... while serial numbers are probably overkill ... if you wanted to get that level of detail it might help you in an insurance claim, or be good practice .. etc ..
. - Be Observant ... I know its difficult at 240 post in.. but really ... try to brush up on the other posts... keeping the above in mind, just like any troubleshooting done... be mindful of what others have tried .. have you tried the same? document your steps or bullet point them so that everyone can get up to speed to help you in your issue as quickly as you want, as well as quickly as they need info from you.. (two way street that ... you have questions needing answers sometimes it takes more than a one word/yes/no answer or opens more questions)
- How is the Dish Receiver physically connected into your network? you need to add some detail on how you're connected, not just your overall internet speed (comcast 6m down/1meg up tells people *NOTHING* about how that equates to your Dish Receiver's connection), or at least reference somewhere so people can look to see what you have
Dish (sorry Dish IRT) is not the greatest at getting information out to customers, and especially when problems like this come up.. Dish is going to try to consolidate information .. but they would hold onto what they are seeing as patterns.. meanwhile the rest of the people could see that same pattern if dish was more open .. etc.. or allowing other users to see the same is happening with someone else, or how someone else's problem is different from our own..
Lastly (yeah I know too long already) those who have said "oh but its only been out a week" STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR DISH ... dish has had this conceptually planed for some time now.. (scott even had the announcement the middle of last month? so dish has been working on this AT LEAST since they bought blockbuster, if not before that!) and they've executed something that is CLEARLY not up to par with the other options out there. LEAST of which is that its not available on their "flagship" 922 receiver, but even more so, that Dish doesn't have the infrastructure testing ability so that they can quickly nip things in the bud (my suggestion for the "Connection Testing" app, and more than just a "yup its connected" diagnostic)
I'm not trying to brow beat dish in this.. but really .. some simple things could have been done and a lot of our user frustration would have been eliminated ... its the same problem dish has been having over and over again ...
(I await your angry letters)
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In my case the movies are delivered just a bit faster than I can watch it. I am able to fast forward through the first few minutes
of the opening credits from the start. I think Dish has something that they can really build on and make great. I am withholding
judgment on other concerns until Dish has had time address everything.
sounds good to me......
Here is my set up and info:
DVR 722k hardwired to NETGEAR XEB1004 85Mpbs (home plug) from Belkin n600 max play wireless router with latest firmware.
I cant "stream" or get fast downloads of movies. I have tried Topshot HD and new Nightmare on Elm street HD. Topshot said 2.25 hours and nightmare said 1.5 hours (kind of weird figured other way around since the other is longer).....both ended up being longer than stated time. I could not play any of them until after downloaded.
speed test at speedtest.com said : 4.85mb/dl and 1mb/ul
i pay for 4mb with bursts to 5mb d/l and 768k up with bursts to 1.5mb up......wireless ISP provider
PS3 (hard wired via homeplug) and amazon(wireless) stream HD just fine.
Just wanted to post info you suggested
James
Here is my set up and info:
DVR 722k hardwired to NETGEAR XEB1004 85Mpbs (home plug) from Belkin n600 max play wireless router with latest firmware.
I cant "stream" or get fast downloads of movies. I have tried Topshot HD and new Nightmare on Elm street HD. Topshot said 2.25 hours and nightmare said 1.5 hours (kind of weird figured other way around since the other is longer).....both ended up being longer than stated time. I could not play any of them until after downloaded.
speed test at speedtest.com said : 4.85mb/dl and 1mb/ul
i pay for 4mb with bursts to 5mb d/l and 768k up with bursts to 1.5mb up......wireless ISP provider
PS3 (hard wired via homeplug) and amazon(wireless) stream HD just fine.
Just wanted to post info you suggested
James
That's a great start !!
Note that Belkin has two N600's with different terminology
they do that frequently ... so the model number becomes more distinguishing ... ie. Google http://www.google.com/search?q=Belk...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a first two hits F7D8301 "Play HD" / F7D8302 "Play" and then there is the Max but the only one of those I could find was the F7D4401au http://www.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Product_Id=510658 AU (Aussie!) but thats a side bar.. The Netgear part is a kit, so its two units, one goes near the router, the other near the hardware ... when you ran the speedtest, was that via ethernet through the homeplug?
If so.. then I'd say you have something the Dish IRT people need to know (ie speeds good, so could be a problem with how dish receiver buffers frames,etc) ... also are you sure the dish receiver is going across the bridge (netgears) via ethernet and not going via its built in home plug? I would hope the MAC addresses in the Belkin are listed for DHCP and you can confirm the MAC is from the ethernet port not the homeplug mac. (last 1 or 2 hextets from mac would be different between the two parts, every mac must be unique
)
Many of us have other devices and streaming services to compare, so the need for a "streaming ability app" to check really isn't necessary to know something's wrong.
From that PDF, I found two different 'explanations' on when a movie will start:
For BBMP, I don't know which is applicable. I suspect the first one. As for when it's "available to watch" reinforces what I said about they simply opened up the pipes in regards to download speed. A true streaming system will start in minutes, albeit at reduced quality if need be. I've seen a movie, on BMPP, start in 2-minutes or say it will start in hours. My opinion is, it's not streaming, but downloading, and will try to start when buffered enough. If it says it will be 30+ minutes, that sounds like 'slow internet' (and you can't always blame the user). My speed is consistently 3-5.5Mb/s. Of course, I can have downloads (on the PC) that go at 75kb/s. Try a different site, and I get 400kb/s. So, it ain't my connection that's slow.
From that PDF, I found two different 'explanations' on when a movie will start:
For BBMP, I don't know which is applicable. I suspect the first one. As for when it's "available to watch" reinforces what I said about they simply opened up the pipes in regards to download speed. A true streaming system will start in minutes, albeit at reduced quality if need be. I've seen a movie, on BMPP, start in 2-minutes or say it will start in hours. My opinion is, it's not streaming, but downloading, and will try to start when buffered enough. If it says it will be 30+ minutes, that sounds like 'slow internet' (and you can't always blame the user). My speed is consistently 3-5.5Mb/s. Of course, I can have downloads (on the PC) that go at 75kb/s. Try a different site, and I get 400kb/s. So, it ain't my connection that's slow.
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Ok .. but where is it wrong?
The streaming done from those devices only clears *those* devices and their network connectivity. In BgNewb's case .. if the device (dish receiver) is connecting across the *netgear* Homeplug Bridge via ethernet ... only then can you suggest it should be comparable.
However, if the Dish Receiver is using its own homeplug to go back to the main homeplug bridge (the one at the Belkin N600 side) ... then it could certainly be running at a lower speed than the other connected devices that go into the Netgear at the receiver/bluray side only. Additionally there's always the possibility that something is going wrong inside the receiver, and you'd never know it because there is no speed test inside the receiver (look to the HDMI port problems of the 622 as proof that problems can be internal to the receiver and not seen right away)
The only way to prove the dish receiver itself is seeing comparable speed as any other device, is for there to be a speed test object from the Dish Receiver. Comparing Netflix streaming on a bluray, or ps3, etc.. and the streaming of a Dish Reciever is like comparing Red Delicious Apples to Granny Smith ... they're both apples.. but that's about the end of the comparison. To find the worm, you have to eat or cut into the apples. And with the number of posts with people having little to no problem streaming .. you have to still issolate to the user, their connectivity, their receiver connectivity.
The threads about BBMP are already littered with recommendations to wire or upgrade to wireless N if not already (including for the dish receivers) .... as the test to show the receivers and Dish are up to snuff.. Of course there's also the reason to track Title's that did/did not stream well ... what if buffering on the Dish side is setup to favor certain titles.. etc..
So.. not enough to just say "wrong" and blame dish.
Watch in 1 hour 55 minutes, while I have 15mbs is not steaming. Maybe they have intentions to change this. I have netflix and HD movies play within 10 seconds @ 5mbs. Even on Epix @ 3mbs they play pretty quick, were we mislead in what we were getting?
how is your dish receiver connected to the internet? Home Plug? Wireless N Dongle to a wireless N router? (N dongles will drop back to G mode if you don't have an N based router) etc.. and which movie/tv title was it?
<10 second Movie start-up.
My setup:
Comcast 12/2 Moto surfboard(non Docsis)-Linksys WRTU54G-TM T-Mobile Hot Spot Wireless G Broadband Router-20' LAN run to gigabit switch located next to TV. Gigabit switch feeds: TV,PS3,Dish,Pioneer
I am in the camp that believes when it comes to streaming that a home run directly to the receiver is preferable. I might consider Wireless down the road but this has worked well for me.
My setup:
Comcast 12/2 Moto surfboard(non Docsis)-Linksys WRTU54G-TM T-Mobile Hot Spot Wireless G Broadband Router-20' LAN run to gigabit switch located next to TV. Gigabit switch feeds: TV,PS3,Dish,Pioneer
I am in the camp that believes when it comes to streaming that a home run directly to the receiver is preferable. I might consider Wireless down the road but this has worked well for me.
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First, my BD player and Dish receiver are hard-wired. I can fire up Netflix on the BD box, pick an HD movie, and begin watching in less than 30 seconds. I can go through the steps on my Dish box and begin watching in 1-2 minutes or 1+ hour. You're suggesting there's something on my end that causes the Dish receiver to go slower ? You're suggesting there's something wrong with my receiver ? Please tell us how title 'a' would behave differently than title 'b' ?
You say we can't compare Netflix streaming to Dish's streaming. I disagree, streaming is streaming, at least to the technical user.
People are clearly having issues. Quit defending Dish and suggesting it's 'our' problem. Anything I'm posting in regards to this is constructive criticism. Any reasonable person understands this as a way to help fix things or improve them. I want this to work RIGHT. I don't bitch and moan just for the sake of bitching and moaning.
You say we can't compare Netflix streaming to Dish's streaming. I disagree, streaming is streaming, at least to the technical user.
People are clearly having issues. Quit defending Dish and suggesting it's 'our' problem. Anything I'm posting in regards to this is constructive criticism. Any reasonable person understands this as a way to help fix things or improve them. I want this to work RIGHT. I don't bitch and moan just for the sake of bitching and moaning.
I think the problems can be all of the above. For some it will be network related. It is also a possibility that 'Move Networks'(purchased by Dish this year for adaptive streaming) or Dish themselve's might be playing catch-up with the added streaming users. Here is an article the describes adaptive streaming technology implemented by Move Networks.Light Reading Cable - Video - Dish Makes Its Adaptive Streaming Move - Telecom News Analysis It would be nice to have a thread that shows everyone's current setup. If the problems are happening to people with setups that vary from slow 3MB pipes to faster pipes then we can probably surmise that Dish Networks servers are going through some growing pains. With adaptive streaming, the users with biggest Pipe get the highest quality. If Dish's servers are overburdened with streaming 1080i to the masses with fast broadband I could see how some with less bandwidth might be effected. This is all just a guess on my part but given the facts stated here, I can see where Dish might be having a hard time (initially)getting video's out in a timely manner.
That's a great start !!
Note that Belkin has two N600's with different terminology
The Netgear part is a kit, so its two units, one goes near the router, the other near the hardware ... when you ran the speedtest, was that via ethernet through the homeplug?
If so.. then I'd say you have something the Dish IRT people need to know (ie speeds good, so could be a problem with how dish receiver buffers frames,etc) ... also are you sure the dish receiver is going across the bridge (netgears) via ethernet and not going via its built in home plug? I would hope the MAC addresses in the Belkin are listed for DHCP and you can confirm the MAC is from the ethernet port not the homeplug mac. (last 1 or 2 hextets from mac would be different between the two parts, every mac must be unique
I have the N600 F7D8302 v1
I ran the speed test wireless from Laptop.
I do have the 3 homeplug set up 1 from router to wall and 2nd at ps3, dvr and Onkyo networked receiver. 3rd is in office only phone and printer are on that one.
I looked at router login and all of them have own mac address within DHCP. I am assuming the homeplugs are in there because i am not sure how to check the MAc address for those but i do see everything there. There are 2 in the that are ##.10 then ##.11 as last two hextets. Hope this helps let me know if need me to check anything else. Thanks
James
Hall said:
Having gig feed the dish receiver wont improve the stream speeds since the dish reciever is 10/100 anyways. Though its better to go wired than wireless. But there is no difference between using a 10/100 vs 10/100/1000 (gig) switch if dish is your end point.
First... chill ... Second.. in *your* case ... but you can't make a blanket statement of the same for *EVERYONE* because there are just a many people posting they have theirs start streaming instantly.
Now if the Dish Receiver *did* have an app that actually tested and showed results.. going to the Stream Server, and allow you to compare that to other sites on the net, then you could get a better idea of any other issue besides just the Dish Stream site being the cause of the problem you're seeing.
And again.. its not all about "you" ... Others *have* posted that they were having problems when they had homeplug in use .. and this broadband streaming proved that they couldn't get the right speeds or get downloads of shows to complete, etc.. when *they* directly wired.
As to the title issue.. each title can have its own problems as witnessed here:
http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-network-forum/255575-shows-not-playing-dish-demand.html#post2536440
or in charges for VOD as here:
http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-ne...ee-demand-new-release-movies.html#post2457365
SO.. per TITLE issues DO happen hence.. if you're trying to go after Tron ... and it doesn't want to start for 4 hours.. and someone else is doing Tron and it started immediately.. it gives another picture of *some sort* of issue .. is it network? is it that dish has Queue of how many users can attempt the same content before they throttle? etc.. we don't know..
And i'm not defending dish ... I'm trying to work within what we have to help identify the problems and causes, not just say its all screwed up etc..
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