Station IDs

[larrykenney]

When I worked in TV back in the analog days prior to DTV only, a station was required to ID with callsign and city of license with other cities added after the COL, if desired, such as "KGO-TV, San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose" either by video, audio or both.

Now that there are multiple sub-channels, do all of the sub-channels have to give an ID, or does the PSIP information suffice? I see that some sub-channels have automatic ID supers on the hour, but several stations here in the SF Bay Area are not IDing their sub-channels on a regular basis and some not at all. One station has never shown a legal ID that I've seen.

Anyone here know the current rules?

 

[spongella]

larrykenney,

Not sure of the rules, but up here all 87 received channels show the id on the upper right of the screen. Interestingly when the band is open and signal strength is good even distant stations will show the ID when you select the channel.

 

[RjDRjD]

Digital low power television and digital television translator stations have no legal ID requirement as per §74.789

 

[Mr Tony]

Now that there are multiple sub-channels, do all of the sub-channels have to give an ID, or does the PSIP information suffice?

Larry
I know here in Minneapolis the full power stations ID the subs....but they do it in different ways
-Justice Network (which is on KARE NBC) they have a ID in the bottom right. It says KARE 11.3 (with the 11 being KARE's stylized version). Its only on there at the beginning of the show. I don't remember Weather Nation ever getting an ID
-Buzzzr and Movies just have a small ID inserted. On Buzzr its usually right before the "fremantle media" slate at the end of the shows. Its says "KMSP 9.4 Minneapolis/St Paul" (even though their city of license is technically Eden Prairie which is a suburb)
-Decades (on CBS O&O) they just use the same popup ID they use all the time. It doesnt distinguish the sub number. Just says "WCCO-DT 4 Minnepolis/St Paul KCCO-DT/KCCW-DT 7/12 Alexandria/Walker"
-Me, This and AntennaTV are all subs on the Independent station (co-owned with ABC). They vary. MeTV has the actual ID insert that says "You're watching MeTV Twin Cities" (or similar in nature) and shows the call sign......AntennaTV & ThisTV just have a ID inserted about 3 inches from the bottom of the screen in the middle. They all 3 ID as "KSTC DTV Minneapolis St Paul"
-Heroes & Icons ID's the same as the above 3 (since its on co-owned KSTP's sub) except its "KSTP DTV St Paul Minneapolis"
-Get & Grit (on CW) have a ID inserted too....sometimes its between shows, sometimes its within the 1st minute. Just a small banner
-Ion Id's all their subs with "Your local Ion affiliate KPXM-DT 41 St Cloud/Minneapolis"

We only have one low powered station with subs (KJNK) and I dont think they ID the subs. Its Sonlife and HmongTV Network. The main is Telemundo so theyID that all the time
We have some other low powered stations but they are owned by the Network (3ABN, Daystar) or have no subs,

 

[dhett]

KMSP may be located in Eden Prairie but the station's legal COL is Minneapolis. They're good.

http://licensing.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/sta_det.pl?Facility_id=68883

 

[larrykenney]

Digital low power television and digital television translator stations have no legal ID requirement as per §74.789

Ah, that explains why I don't see IDs on a lot of the stations. We have several low power stations and a couple of translators, most with multiple sub-channels. One has 14 sub-channels, others have 10, a couple have 6.

Thanks for the info, RjDRjD!

 

[larrykenney]

Larry
I know here in Minneapolis the full power stations ID the subs....but they do it in different ways
- - -
Decades (on CBS O&O) they just use the same popup ID they use all the time. It doesnt distinguish the sub number. Just says "WCCO-DT 4 Minnepolis/St Paul KCCO-DT/KCCW-DT 7/12 Alexandria/Walker"

There sure is a variety of ways to ID, and it looks like Minneapolis/St. Paul stations cover the gamut.

Seeing you're sitting right on the W-K call dividing line (Mississippi River) it's interesting that you have both in your area, with the CBS stations having both W and K.

 

[Mr Tony]

Also one other thing of note about KMSP....is every now and then they ID ALL their translators (even the ones they do not own) as a fair amount of the Minneapolis DMA relies on translators. They will do a scroll or I saw the other day a quick thing about one of the newscasters and at the bottom it showed it.

And with FOX technically being on 2 stations (RF9 & RF29) if the translator carries both feeds (on RF9 is BUzzzr, RF29 has My & Movies) they (KMSP) list BOTH in the ID (so as example you'll see K30AF-D and K38AC-D Alexandria in the scroll)

 

[Mr Tony]

Seeing you're sitting right on the W-K call dividing line (Mississippi River) it's interesting that you have both in your area, with the CBS stations having both W and K.

The one unique thing about the CBS is we are the only CBS O&O with owned satellite stations. KCCO & KCCW were their own station years ago when the Alexandria area (about 150 miles NW of Minneapolis) was its own market. They were KCMT and KCNT and were NBC primary and ABC secondary affiliates. WCCO bought them out in the mid 80's and that swallowed up one market (the ALex market was getting chipped away slowly prior to that). That is the reason the market is so huge.

I guess in Minneapolis they don't really have to follow "the river" as there are both K & W stations on both sides of the river. Even in Duluth there are both (4 K 2 W) even though the river is west of there

 

[Mary Lou Maloney]

When I worked in TV back in the analog days prior to DTV only, a station was required to ID with callsign and city of license with other cities added after the COL, if desired, such as "KGO-TV, San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose" either by video, audio or both.

Now that there are multiple sub-channels, do all of the sub-channels have to give an ID, or does the PSIP information suffice? I see that some sub-channels have automatic ID supers on the hour, but several stations here in the SF Bay Area are not IDing their sub-channels on a regular basis and some not at all. One station has never shown a legal ID that I've seen.

Anyone here know the current rules?

I have listened to some radio stations that do not announce their call letters and city of license at all on the top of the hour. Then there are some that announce this either a few minutes before or a few minutes after the hour. Used to be required to be at the top of the hour.

 

[Mr Tony]

I have listened to some radio stations that do not announce their call letters and city of license at all on the top of the hour. Then there are some that announce this either a few minutes before or a few minutes after the hour. Used to be required to be at the top of the hour.

it doesnt have to be exactly at the top of the hour. As we were discussing it in the local radio forum "radio" (Jim....who actually owns a radio station) noted

Legal ID's are required once per hour for non translator stations "as close as possible to the top of the hour" during normal programming.
http://www.satelliteguys.us/xen/posts/3815898/

When I listen to sports programs on radio I've heard the ID (or as they usually say "station identification") be 7-8 minutes after the hour (especially during Vikings games)

 

[localclassictvfan]

Most of mine have the major network affiliate at the bottom right of the screen such as the ABC, NBC, CBS, and FOX, and CW.

The digital subchannels well for instance on the Bottom Right of the screen KXKW 32.1 has the This TV Icon and so does KDCG 22.2. KDCG 22.1 and KLWB 50.2 have the H&I logo on the bottom left of the screen. 10.3 Ion had the KLFY 10 Logo on the bottom right. KLWB 50.1 has the metv logo with Acadiana 50.1 on the bottom right. The Public Broadcasting stations have LPB on the 24.1, LPB2 on the 24.2 and the Create logo on 24.3.
Get TV logo is on the bottom right of 10.2 Klfy, and KPLC 7.2 and 7.3 have the grit logo/bounce logo on the bottom right at times 7.2 with Lake Charles Louisiana will show up on the bottom left and the 7.3 with the same thing can be seen on the bottom left.

 

[ejb1980]

Most of mine have the major network affiliate at the bottom right of the screen such as the ABC, NBC, CBS, and FOX, and CW.

The digital subchannels well for instance on the Bottom Right of the screen KXKW 32.1 has the This TV Icon and so does KDCG 22.2. KDCG 22.1 and KLWB 50.2 have the H&I logo on the bottom left of the screen. 10.3 Ion had the KLFY 10 Logo on the bottom right. KLWB 50.1 has the metv logo with Acadiana 50.1 on the bottom right. The Public Broadcasting stations have LPB on the 24.1, LPB2 on the 24.2 and the Create logo on 24.3.
Get TV logo is on the bottom right of 10.2 Klfy, and KPLC 7.2 and 7.3 have the grit logo/bounce logo on the bottom right at times 7.2 with Lake Charles Louisiana will show up on the bottom left and the 7.3 with the same thing can be seen on the bottom left.

A logo is not an ID.

WABC New York is an ID.

 

[Mr Tony]

Most of mine have the major network affiliate at the bottom right of the screen such as the ABC, NBC, CBS, and FOX, and CW.

As ejb noted those are logos, not ID"s
All national programming has the logo in the corner (left or right)
As example here in Minneapolis during non network programming it shows "CW23" but during network programming it just shows "CW"
Our ABC during news rotates between their stylized "5" and "KSTP". Their sister station during the news shows "KSTC45".

The digital subchannels well for instance on the Bottom Right of the screen KXKW 32.1 has the This TV Icon and so does KDCG 22.2. KDCG 22.1 and KLWB 50.2 have the H&I logo on the bottom left of the screen.

stock logos across the board. Under ThisTV shows "Twin Cities" for us.

KLWB 50.1 has the metv logo with Acadiana 50.1 on the bottom right.

"Twin Cities" under our logo here

Get TV logo is on the bottom right of 10.2 Klfy, and KPLC 7.2 and 7.3 have the grit logo/bounce logo on the bottom right at times 7.2 with Lake Charles Louisiana will show up on the bottom left and the 7.3 with the same thing can be seen on the bottom left.

again those are logos.

The question was posted do they "ID" on the hour. So as exampole does Ion say something like "KLFY 10.3 Lafayette" at the top of the hour?
In Minneapolis all the Ion stations say "Your Local Ion is KPXM St Cloud/Minneapolis" at the top of every hour on screen.

 

[RONZ]

I though the logo or "bug" was not considered a station ID I know all of the sub channels in Detroit on the top of the hour show the calls and 4.3 or whatever channel number it is

 

[Mr Tony]

I though the logo or "bug" was not considered a station ID

its not...unless the call sign is below it

I know all of the sub channels in Detroit on the top of the hour show the calls and 4.3 or whatever channel number it is

That would be the ID which is what Larry was asking about (if the subs in your area get an ID every hour)

 

[RONZ]

I agree that is the case. The only time I have seem a station preempt/break in is when the station does their EBS check

 

[localclassictvfan]

As ejb noted those are logos, not ID"s
All national programming has the logo in the corner (left or right)
As example here in Minneapolis during non network programming it shows "CW23" but during network programming it just shows "CW"
Our ABC during news rotates between their stylized "5" and "KSTP". Their sister station during the news shows "KSTC45".


stock logos across the board. Under ThisTV shows "Twin Cities" for us.


"Twin Cities" under our logo here


again those are logos.

The question was posted do they "ID" on the hour. So as exampole does Ion say something like "KLFY 10.3 Lafayette" at the top of the hour?
In Minneapolis all the Ion stations say "Your Local Ion is KPXM St Cloud/Minneapolis" at the top of every hour on screen.

Just KPLC and KLWB have the station ID. KLFY had it when LWN was around