Setting up FTA to Bud with analog receiver

[Desertnight]

Hello. This my first post and hope ya'll can help.

I have C-band only reception. But first I need to describe the equipment I am using and how I have made the hook-ups/connections. Maybe someone can tell me what I am doing wrong, how to correct the problem and why what is happening is happening.

Equipment I have:
8' mesh dish,
Uniden Analog receiver (using only as a dish positioner/mover),
Sonicview 360 Elite dual tuner FTA
Chaparral feedhorn,
External polarizer/servo motor,
C-band only lnb (I do not know which brand. The label is weathered and faded.),
No switches (Diseqc, 22 khz, etc.)

The hook up/connections:
LNB straight to the Sonicview (Tuner 1, IF in),
Servo/polarizer wires to analog receiver
Wiring = Ground--black
Pulse = white
DV6V = bare wire (can't tell color)
V/H--C/KU = empty slot
RCA cables from Sonicview to one television;
Coaxial cable from "out to tv" on the analog goes to a separate television to be able to see the satellite I want to go to);

Loop out on the Sonicview (below the IF in) is not being used.

So therefore, the analog is not connected to the Sonicview.

Now, the problem:
I move from one satellite to another with the analog receiver and select the same satellite in the Sonicview, the program on the channel of the satellite I selected on the Sonicview comes in and stays on AS LONG AS THE ANALOG RECEIVER IS ON.

However, if I turn off the analog receiver, in 15 seconds to a minute, the program I selected on the Sonicview goes black and the message "No Signal" shows up.

But if I turn off both the analog receiver and the Sonicview receiver for about 30 minutes; then only turn on the Sonicview receiver I am able to watch the program without any problem.

Maybe someone can tell me what I am doing wrong, how to correct the problem and why what is happening is happening.

Is is possible that I can damage something? I've only used this setup a few times.

Thanks.

 

[truckracer]

You have a pretty straight forward install. since the lnb of your dish is not connected in any way the analog box (BTW you could use a power passing splitter if you wanted to hook up the analog for some analog feeds), and it goes straight to your fta box and you are losing signal.

Here are some things to check:

1. condition of your coax leading to the dish lnb. Make sure your connections especially outside connections are free of corrosion and are dry using water proof outdoor F connectors.

2. your lnb- Your c-band lnb requires 18-20 volts dc. Your fta receiver is feeding it 13v on vertical. On horizontal polarities on the fta receiver the voltage should be correct. Some lnbs won't operate properly out of spec. I have a couple that will that are cheaper units. The better units sometimes will not like Norsats.

3. connect a two way power passing splitter to your lnb coax coming in, next port on the splitter that passes the dc power connect it to the lnb input of your analog box. This will give your lnb the proper voltage regardless of what the fta box is sending. connect the fta box to the other leg of the splitter. See if your problem corrects itself.

4. Bad lnb, you could have an lnb that is dying a slow death and after it is powered down and cooling off internally it works again for a while. electronics will do that sometimes.

try the above and let us know how it goes.


also try using a digital dc voltmeter and check the voltage at the lnb on the end of the coax. Carefully while the receiver inside the house is on sending power, put the black lead probe on the outside metal area (ground) of the coax. Put the red lead + on the center coax lead in the connector. Your voltage should be 13V if your on a vertical channel, or 18V on a horizontal.
It could be a volt or so one way or the other.

Make sure your coax is RG-6.

 

[Desertnight]

Thanks for the info.

However, Signal strength is very high and quality is very high. Re-read my post. You might come up with some different thoughts. My lnb is working fine, never any problem. I have been watching analog C-band for years and never a problem. I don't think that is the problem.

I realize I can get a splitter but which one--high frequency? What's causing the signal loss as I described in my post?

 

[B.J.]

Desertnight... You didn't say what kind of Uniden receiver you have. If it is a more modern IRD type with a VCII module, what usually happens when you turn off such a receiver is that it will try to search for a VCII channel, which typically means going through all the channels one by one. It will eventually get to a channel with the wrong polarity for the FTA channel you're watching, and your signal will go away. It may be that by leaving it off for a half hour, that if finally gave up finding a VCII channel, and went back to the channel you started on.
I don't know if IRDs will do this on their own if there is no VCII module installed, but it's worth a try to pull out the module if there is one in there.
I have an old Uniden, but it's a model prior to IRDs so it doesn't have an internal VCII and it is really off when you turn it off, but on my Drake, it will definately cycle through the channels after you "turn it off", and it is really still ON. I thought that my Drake actually kept cycling though, but I might be remembering wrong.

Anyway, just an idea. One way to tell is to keep watching and see if the FTA signal comes back on it's own.

 

[Desertnight]

The analog receiver is an Uniden SQ530 with a VCRS module. Purchased in 1996.

 

[Corrado]

From what I'm thinking, could the analog receiver be switching the polarity? Does it occur on both H and V polarities? If the LNB isn't even connected to the analog receiver, I don't think LNB power is the issue here.

You could try disconnecting the skew servo motor power for a test to rule it out.

 

[Hermitman]

It sure sounds like the analog receiver is moving the servo shortly after you turn it off. One way to find out is to disconnect the the servo wires from the back of the receiver then turn of the receiver and see what happens. Since it only happens shortly after turning off the receiver and not after being turned off for a while, maybe a capacitor in the servo circuit is slowly bleeding down causing a movement of the servo. Good luck.

 

[B.J.]

It's easier to put a voltmeter on the servo connections and watch it switch. Usually, even though it's a pulsed signal, one polarity usually shows up as about 1 volt, and the other polarity shows up as about a half volt.
But since this is a VCII receiver, I think that there is no doubt that it is automatically switching channels and eventually polarity, because this is what virtually all VCII IRDs did, in order for the receivers to get VCII data in the event that you leave the receiver on a non VCII channel. Every VCII IRD I've owned did this.
As I said before, I'd try pulling the module, as it isn't much use anymore anyway, and if that doesn't work, just leave the receiver on. It's really on when it's turned off anyway, and you'll be saving more power by removing the module than you would by turning it off anyway.

 

[Desertnight]

All excellent ideas! Alot of food for thought here.

I'll check out all those suggestions. Ya'll have given great thought to how these units work. Not just the connections...but how "it all works".

Reminds me of a situation I had with my boat. Water kept getting into the outdrive. Mechanics did a pressure test on the outdrive and the results said that there was no problem. BUT....the outdrive schematics said that a certain type of o-ring had to be used in the drain plug screw hole. What was in there was a rubber o-ring. I figured out from the schematics that a flat washer was supposed to be used. Flat washer worked! The fine details make a big difference.

Anyhow...back to the subject at hand. I'll check out all those suggestions tomorrow and/or the next day and post back what the results turn out to be.
If I can tear myself away from THIS movie channel!!! lol.

BJ: Beautiful dog in the Pittsburgh Steelers shirt. Next year maybe the dog will wear a donkey..oops, Bronco t-shirt? lol. (We call the Broncos the donkeys when the team does badly).

I have blind scanned only two satellites G4 (99W) and G3 (95W), both scanned on Horizontal, I believe. Since I am new to FTA, I took note of every thing that went on and did not understand the "why" of what was happening.

I have an opportunity to get a DSR 922 and DSR920 from a satellite dealer in town (50 miles away) for $50.00. He has to see if he can find the power cords and remotes. One of the DSR's is a late model and the other one a little older. He's got to find the power cords to see if they will power up. Hopefully, the batteries are still good. Any thoughts on the set up? The satellite dealer had never heard of FTA receivers. Typical of this area. No local satellite dealers have ever heard of FTA. Only other person, locally, that knows about FTA is working for a local NBC station in the engineering department.

Any, any help will be appreciated. Even though I have read til my eyes bled over the past three months, these responses have been the most helpful of all.:

 

[B.J.]

...

BJ: Beautiful dog in the Pittsburgh Steelers shirt. Next year maybe the dog will wear a donkey..oops, Bronco t-shirt? lol. (We call the Broncos the donkeys when the team does badly).
....

Not going to happen. My dogs are Steeler fans, win or lose (except that they are scared of a terrible towel). Actually, dog picture was taken several years ago during a less sucessful season, but I got it out for a 2nd try this year. Went to first Steeler game in 1947. Used to be able to get tickets for $1 when in high school. Too expensive and too far away to see games now, but catch them all on sat. PBS and Steeler games are main reasons I have satellite dishes. I subscribe to NFL Sunday Ticket on DTV, but was able to find all but one game on either C-band or local OTA. I may drop the Sunday ticket next year.
Re "Donkeys", that's similar to me referring to the Pgh Pidgeons (Penguins) back before they did well. They are reverting to their urban street cleaning heritage this year.

 

[14karat]

...Only other person, locally, that knows about FTA is working for a local NBC station in the engineering department.

I have got to find some connections like that. Those guys are generally a plethora of inside info...

 

[Desertnight]

BJ:

As I said before, I'd try pulling the module, as it isn't much use anymore anyway, and if that doesn't work, just leave the receiver on. It's really on when it's turned off anyway, and you'll be saving more power by removing the module than you would by turning it off anyway.

Thanks BJ. Tried what you suggested about pulling out the VCII module and it worked! Problem solved. Of course, I unplugged the Uniden from the wall first, then removed the VCRS module and plugged the Uniden back in.

So now it doesn't matter whether the Uniden is on or off. More than likely, I will be leaving the Uniden off to conserve energy. The receiver pulls 40 watts.

Since I have a small tv connected to the Uniden, I can see which satellite I am looking for on the C-band. This will be helpful when I need to program in other satellites.

For future reference, I will keep everyone's suggestions and information in mind.

Thanks everyone!!!:up:

 

[B.J.]

BJ: Thanks BJ. Tried what you suggested about pulling out the VCII module and it worked! Problem solved. Of course, I unplugged the Uniden from the wall first, then removed the VCRS module and plugged the Uniden back in.

So now it doesn't matter whether the Uniden is on or off. More than likely, I will be leaving the Uniden off to conserve energy. The receiver pulls 40 watts.

Since I have a small tv connected to the Uniden, I can see which satellite I am looking for on the C-band. This will be helpful when I need to program in other satellites.

For future reference, I will keep everyone's suggestions and information in mind.

Thanks everyone!!!:up:

Good to hear that it worked.
Re turning the receiver off, I know you said 40 watts on, but if you just turn it off with the remote or front switch, it's probably really still on, and I'd bet you aren't saving much power. I used to hook up my receiver to one of those X-10 switches (appliance modules), and that will effectively cut nearly all power to the receiver, similar to flipping the switch on the back, or unplugging it. I did post somewhere recently though about having a receiver now that could not be turned off with an X-10 switch, ie apparently there is enough power left in the receiver that it tries to reboot, and the X-10 switch senses that, and turns back on. But usually an X-10 switch is a good way to cut power to a receiver.