Roger Comes clean

[salsadancer7]

I agree with the obvious part of that.

LMAO...."kettle, meet pot....."

 

[Bijou Media]

The oldest pitcher ever Hoyt Wilhelm retired at 49.
Not bad numbers either. He was a knuckleballer. Maybe not Roger Clemens type numbers, but to pitch in the Majors till almost 50. Even if he wasn't a power pitcher. In 1971 his ERA was 15.43 with Atlanta. He rebounded the next year with an ERA of 4.62 then retired.

W/L: 143-122 (.539)

ERA: 2.52

Strikeouts: 1610

Shutouts: 5

Complete Games: 20

According to MLB there were 28 pitchers that were over 40 pitching last year. I guess the list got bigger.

 

[salsadancer7]

The oldest pitcher ever Hoyt Wilhelm retired at 49.
Not bad numbers either. He was a knuckleballer. Maybe not Roger Clemens type numbers, but to pitch in the Majors till almost 50. Even if he wasn't a power pitcher. In 1971 his ERA was 15.43 with Atlanta. He rebounded the next year with an ERA of 4.62 then retired.

W/L: 143-122 (.539)

ERA: 2.52

Strikeouts: 1610

Shutouts: 5

Complete Games: 20

According to MLB there were 28 pitchers that were over 40 pitching last year. I guess the list got bigger.

Ok...good...that is Ryan, Schilling, Wilhelm and Randy Johnson....hey I will even throw in Satchel Paige...still, your sample size is microscopic considering how many pitchers have pitched in the majors....you can have 30...and still, too smal a sample size. Get me a list of say....15 to 20% of the pitchers, THEN you have an argument....but until then.....sorry....to me, no dice.

 

[Bijou Media]

WOW...a published author AND a baseball writer??!! Not bad, too bad you credibility is shot because IF YOU were as astute as you say you were in baseball, you would have both KNOWN that Babe ONLY pitched around 18 innings AFTER the age of 35 AND that Jack Morris did not play after the age of 39 and was pretty much washed up....but who am I, just some "guy on a forum that THINKS he's smart". Again, seeing that you didn't know about baseball as much you professed to know.....I STILL don't want to "run with you".... Don't wanna run with a guy that HAS to make know his credentials to make himself feel important. And I didn't get slapped around because my post about my original statement was RIGHT ABOVE YOURS, trying checking it....post #3 on this thread....

Hmm...Jesse Orosco:

87 wins, 80 losses career....ERA at 3.16. After the age of 39, 19-16 with an ERA around 3.75. Against lefties, his ERA was 1.19...but you know this, I mean you ARE a baseball writer....

I remember the flooded basement comment. I guess that didn't sink in. pardon the pun

Don't wanna run with a guy that HAS to make know his credentials to make himself feel important.

You think I really care if you respect my credentials? You have provided false data. Orosco was 13-11 since turning 39. after 40 he was 7-8. You are lacking on credibility when you provide false data. Of course your argument is so weak that this is all you can do. Below is the link with Orosco's stats if you'd like to check my facts.

Though dominate in his early career, not as much after 40. Lets again look at the numbers after 40 (you seem to like that number, but broke you're own rule and made it 39 to try and pad your argument). Orosco was born April 21 1957, so I'll start with 1998. Not taking anything away from Orosco just stating the facts once again. Jesse Orosco was a hell of a pitcher.

W/L:
98 4-1
99 0-2
00 0-0
01 0-1
02 1-2
03 2-2
Total 7-8

ERA:
98 3.18
99 5.34
00 3.86
01 3.94
02 3.00
03 7.91
Total 4.54 career total 3.16

saves:
98 7
99 1
00 0
01 0
02 1
02 2
Total 11 career total 144

Strikeouts:
98 50
99 34
00 4
01 21
02 22
03 29
total 160

Breaking down some of your statements, and your convienient use of age 39, which made his stats look better
You said Orosco was 19-16 after 39, in reality he was 13-11.
after 40 he was 7-8. Big drop.
You said he was around 3.75 after 39. Pretty close I had him at 3.80. After 40 he was 4.54. Still pretty good but not as effective.



Link for Jesse Orosco's career stats:
The Official Site of Major League Baseball: Stats: Historical Stats


So what else you got junior? What other pathetic argument do I need to swat down?

 

[Bijou Media]

Ok...good...that is Ryan, Schilling, Wilhelm and Randy Johnson....hey I will even throw in Satchel Paige...still, your sample size is microscopic considering how many pitchers have pitched in the majors....you can have 30...and still, too smal a sample size. Get me a list of say....15 to 20% of the pitchers, THEN you have an argument....but until then.....sorry....to me, no dice.

Well then you've further proved your lack of intelligence. There is NEVER going to be 15 to 20% pitchers over 40.

First of all there are guys that maybe pitch 3 or 4 years and never make it. They won't pitch over 40 because they can't even make it at 23 (or what ever age you want to throw in.)

So what anyway. How the hell does your pathetic argument work? A guy over 40 must be using Steroids? 38 pitchers played last year.on the over 40 list. You seem to be oblivious to simple logic.

 

[sidekick]

Sorry Bijou ... but for an alleged published author and baseball writer, your spelling, grammar and punctuation usage is atrocious.

 

[Bijou Media]

Sorry Bijou ... but for an alleged published author and baseball writer, your spelling, grammar and punctuation usage is atrocious.

Sorry Sidekick I couldn't care what you think. BTW I checked all my words and didn't find one misspelled. Besides I have editors that can fix those errors. I see you made it to my blog. Don't worry for my articles I have an editor. I also checked that, and didn't find any misspelled words either. You were wrong about that.

Amazon.com: Definitions: Poetry That Defines Love, Life and Beyond: Books: Timothy J. House
You didn't make it to the books website. There's the link for my "alleged" book above. Next time check your facts Mr. attorney. Myself and other writers tend to suck at grammar. Not all but some. I tend to think more of content and am less rigid with rule. Maybe it is seen as a downfall, but hey a lot about grammar is subjective. I'm not sure I like your use of ellipsis marks, oh yeah that's punctuation. I think an em dash works better.

I used whom mistakenly instead of who on my blog. Sue me

 

[Bijou Media]

Seriously guys ... we all know that the greatest pitcher in history is Ron Jeremy and he's well past 40. Err Ahhhh, wait a minute, that's not baseball though, is it?

Uhhh, more like. If you want to be picky.

 

[salsadancer7]

I remember the flooded basement comment. I guess that didn't sink in. pardon the pun

Don't wanna run with a guy that HAS to make know his credentials to make himself feel important.

You think I really care if you respect my credentials? You have provided false data. Orosco was 13-11 since turning 39. after 40 he was 7-8. You are lacking on credibility when you provide false data. Of course your argument is so weak that this is all you can do. Below is the link with Orosco's stats if you'd like to check my facts.

Though dominate in his early career, not as much after 40. Lets again look at the numbers after 40 (you seem to like that number, but broke you're own rule and made it 39 to try and pad your argument). Orosco was born April 21 1957, so I'll start with 1998. Not taking anything away from Orosco just stating the facts once again. Jesse Orosco was a hell of a pitcher.

W/L:
98 4-1
99 0-2
00 0-0
01 0-1
02 1-2
03 2-2
Total 7-8

ERA:
98 3.18
99 5.34
00 3.86
01 3.94
02 3.00
03 7.91
Total 4.54 career total 3.16

saves:
98 7
99 1
00 0
01 0
02 1
02 2
Total 11 career total 144

Strikeouts:
98 50
99 34
00 4
01 21
02 22
03 29
total 160

Breaking down some of your statements, and your convienient use of age 39, which made his stats look better
You said Orosco was 19-16 after 39, in reality he was 13-11.
after 40 he was 7-8. Big drop.
You said he was around 3.75 after 39. Pretty close I had him at 3.80. After 40 he was 4.54. Still pretty good but not as effective.



Link for Jesse Orosco's career stats:
The Official Site of Major League Baseball: Stats: Historical Stats


So what else you got junior? What other pathetic argument do I need to swat down?

I throw out Jesse Orosco because he too falls under the "freak of nature" because he pitched up until he was 46. And the don't let the numbers fool you, he was ONLY a "lefty specialist", he ERA was around 7 against righties but under 2 against lefties and he did mop up duty. Fine, I was off with Orosco, I explained my reason WHY he was added by me...what was your reason to add BABE RUTH??!! Going BACK to the original topic, I have NEVER said all pitchers over 40 were using steroids nor have I insinuated they were...I cleared stated:

Who is to say that Roger has more credibility than the accuser? Put Roger on the stand and have him FOR THE RECORD, tell "the truth, the whole truth so help you GOD...." and we shall see. I personally think pitcher have gotten off the hook to easily. And seeing that most pitchers, with the exception of Jesse Orosco,Kenny Rodgers and Tom Glavine(momma's make sure your sons grow up to be either lefty pitchers or catchers...quickest way to the majors...), most pitchers are out by age 37-38.

But again, you ONLY select tidbits of info...instead of the complete statements.
Oh and by the way, AGAIN, incase you missed WHY I mentioned Jesse Orosco, there it is.....post #9 from this thread. My reasons for mentioning him had NOTHING to do with stats and more to do with his longevity....but you sort of FORGOT that one huh?

Got anything else Charles Dickens?

 

[Bijou Media]

I throw out Jesse Orosco because he too falls under the "freak of nature" because he pitched up until he was 46. And the don't let the numbers fool you, he was ONLY a "lefty specialist", he ERA was around 7 against righties but under 2 against lefties and he did mop up duty. Fine, I was off with Orosco, I explained my reason WHY he was added by me...what was your reason to add BABE RUTH??!! Going BACK to the original topic, I have NEVER said all pitchers over 40 were using steroids nor have I insinuated they were...I cleared stated:



But again, you ONLY select tidbits of info...instead of the complete statements.
Oh and by the way, AGAIN, incase you missed WHY I mentioned Jesse Orosco, there it is.....post #9 from this thread. My reasons for mentioning him had NOTHING to do with stats and more to do with his longevity....but you sort of FORGOT that one huh?

Got anything else Charles Dickens?

You certainly did insiuate that Clemens was on Steroids because he was over 40. Read your own post again. personally think pitcher have gotten off the hook to easily. And seeing that most pitchers, with the exception of Jesse Orosco,Kenny Rodgers and Tom Glavine(momma's make sure your sons grow up to be either lefty pitchers or catchers...quickest way to the majors...), most pitchers are out by age 37-38. The key statement is most pitchers are out by 37-38. You were the one that first added to the list of three players as exception to the rule. Then I added some players, and you said those guys were not of the same ability of Clemens. That's when the stats came in and destroyed your theory.

BTW, comparing me to Dickens isn't an insult as you so cleverly tried to do. However, I'm not the writer Dickens was, but thanks anyway.

Like I said before you lost the argument a long time ago and just keep on trying to win it. Now you've come off your stance and said that you never said or insinuated Clemens was on steroids.

You said he looked guilty on 60 minutes. Maybe you ought to learn how to communicate better. If you "never insinuated everything" then why are you arguing with me so much?

 

[Bijou Media]

Hey sideprick,

Sorry I misspelled your name, rumour is I'm bad at that.

Here's an idea; what if I come there to California, to your workplace and criticize your work.

When you have the balls to put something creative out there for people to criticize, then you can get on my ass.

 

[salsadancer7]

You certainly did insiuate that Clemens was on Steroids because he was over 40. Read your own post again. personally think pitcher have gotten off the hook to easily. And seeing that most pitchers, with the exception of Jesse Orosco,Kenny Rodgers and Tom Glavine(momma's make sure your sons grow up to be either lefty pitchers or catchers...quickest way to the majors...), most pitchers are out by age 37-38. The key statement is most pitchers are out by 37-38. You were the one that first added to the list of three players as exception to the rule. Then I added some players, and you said those guys were not of the same ability of Clemens. That's when the stats came in and destroyed your theory.

BTW, comparing me to Dickens isn't an insult as you so cleverly tried to do. However, I'm not the writer Dickens was, but thanks anyway.

Like I said before you lost the argument a long time ago and just keep on trying to win it. Now you've come off your stance and said that you never said or insinuated Clemens was on steroids.

You said he looked guilty on 60 minutes. Maybe you ought to learn how to communicate better. If you "never insinuated everything" then why are you arguing with me so much?

My friends, calling you Dickens was not ment as an insult....when I insult you, you will know it....it usually leaves a mark. Now maybe the writer in you doesn't known any better, but when it comes to opinions, there is no winner or loser.....like they saying goes, "they are like a$$*****, everyone has one". AGAIN, if you can FIND ANYTHING where I said he either TOOK 'Roids or INSINUATED HE did...please find it....my quote was...for the 3rd time:

In the "60 Minutes" interview, I have never seen an athlete so nervous in my life. Not even one sitting in a trail that was due to testify. Now again, I will try to go by the mantra of "innocent till proven guilty".....but he looks and acts like a man that has something to hide.....

...and " if it walks like a duck and quacks like one......"

But you of course, conveniently forgot it....just check it....it that post RIGHT ABOVE YOURS...post #3.

 

[Bijou Media]

My friends, calling you Dickens was not ment as an insult....when I insult you, you will know it....it usually leaves a mark. Now maybe the writer in you doesn't known any better, but when it comes to opinions, there is no winner or loser.....like they saying goes, "they are like a$$*****, everyone has one". AGAIN, if you can FIND ANYTHING where I said he either TOOK 'Roids or INSINUATED HE did...please find it....my quote was...for the 3rd time:
But you of course, conveniently forgot it....just check it....it that post RIGHT ABOVE YOURS...post #3.

You said innocent till proven guilty, then said

...and " if it walks like a duck and quacks like one......"

I suppose in your way of thinking that meant nothing.
Funny you made the comment about opinions. You were the one that attacked my opinion first.

from post# 4
And he is accused by the uncorroborated testimony of a drug dealer (since steroids are illegal). So there you go.

I don't know if he is guilty or not, but if I were in his shoes I wouldn't want to be accused of something based on the evidence Mitchell has.

Well that was my original statement, and you have not given any proof that can collaborate the evidence they have. Only arguments based on speculation. When I stated that they have no corroborating evidence, you said that FBI and police use drug dealers all the time. I responded with the fact that they need some other direct evidence to prosecute someone; otherwise it's just one persons word, which doesn't mean much. That's all this entire thread boils down to.

I'd love to continue this argument, but I have work to do today.

 

[salsadancer7]

You said innocent till proven guilty, then said

...and " if it walks like a duck and quacks like one......"

I suppose in your way of thinking that meant nothing.
Funny you made the comment about opinions. You were the one that attacked my opinion first.

from post# 4
And he is accused by the uncorroborated testimony of a drug dealer (since steroids are illegal). So there you go.

I don't know if he is guilty or not, but if I were in his shoes I wouldn't want to be accused of something based on the evidence Mitchell has.

Well that was my original statement, and you have not given any proof that can collaborate the evidence they have. Only arguments based on speculation. When I stated that they have no corroborating evidence, you said that FBI and police use drug dealers all the time. I responded with the fact that they need some other direct evidence to prosecute someone; otherwise it's just one persons word, which doesn't mean much. That's all this entire thread boils down to.

I'd love to continue this argument, but I have work to do today.

LMAO....man, you writers LOVE to read into imaginery things. The "duck" comment was reffering to "looks and acts like a man that has something to hide"....but as usual, you assumed something else. AGAIN, my FBI comments were in response to YOUR comments, you remember this:

And he is accused by the uncorroborated testimony of a drug dealer (since steroids are illegal). So there you go.

I don't know if he is guilty or not, but if I were in his shoes I wouldn't want to be accused of something based on the evidence Mitchell has.

FBI and local police have used drug dealers as witnesses and informants before, that does not mean they are not credible. Hell, MOST information, I am sure, comes from people like that.

 

[Paul Wozniak]

The oldest pitcher ever Hoyt Wilhelm retired at 49.
Not bad numbers either. He was a knuckleballer. Maybe not Roger Clemens type numbers, but to pitch in the Majors till almost 50. Even if he wasn't a power pitcher. In 1971 his ERA was 15.43 with Atlanta. He rebounded the next year with an ERA of 4.62 then retired.

W/L: 143-122 (.539)

ERA: 2.52

Strikeouts: 1610

Shutouts: 5

Complete Games: 20

According to MLB there were 28 pitchers that were over 40 pitching last year. I guess the list got bigger.

Holy sh*t! This steroid stuff goes back even farther than I thought!

 

[Paul Wozniak]

I just saw on ESPN that somebody from Clemens' side issued a 44 page report comparing Clemens to the same pitchers Bijou Media did, and Bijou did it all in one page! What the hell is on those other 43 pages? Coincidence? Maybe not. Bijou, are you on the payroll for Clemens' defense?

 

[Bijou Media]

LMAO....man, you writers LOVE to read into imaginery things. The "duck" comment was reffering to "looks and acts like a man that has something to hide"....but as usual, you assumed something else. AGAIN, my FBI comments were in response to YOUR comments, you remember this:

The duck comment means he has something to hide. Like steroid use? What kind of conclusion did you think I was going to draw? We're discussing steroid use and Clemens guilt, or innocence.

You're a trip I give you that. Can you spin your wheels any faster. You insult me, then you say it wasn't really an insult. WTF! Maybe you're the one that needs to put the crack pipe down. Man, if you make a burn stick by it even if a 5 year old could have thought up the Dickens comment. LOL!

 

[Bijou Media]

I just saw on ESPN that somebody from Clemens' side issued a 44 page report comparing Clemens to the same pitchers Bijou Media did, and Bijou did it all in one page! What the hell is on those other 43 pages? Coincidence? Maybe not. Bijou, are you on the payroll for Clemens' defense?

No. Those bastards ripped me off! I'm suing!

I did write a little bit about it. I have a copy of it, but haven't read it yet. Some in the Mitchell camp have made the argument about the same thing Salsa is, that since Clemens has pitched into his 40's that's proof of steroid use. That report is to counter their claims. I can't really make any comments on it till I read it (OH Boy I can't wait).

 

[Bijou Media]

Holy sh*t! This steroid stuff goes back even farther than I thought!

After strenuous testing, they determined that they needed to do more tests to determine if he had been using steroids.

The new Mitchell report cited that Hoyt Willhelm used a mutated form of vitamin c that allowed him to pitch so long.



This post is not based on real world situation. It is meant to be funny.

 

[Paul Wozniak]

No. Those bastards ripped me off! I'm suing!

I did write a little bit about it. I have a copy of it, but haven't read it yet. Some in the Mitchell camp have made the argument about the same thing Salsa is, that since Clemens has pitched into his 40's that's proof of steroid use. That report is to counter their claims. I can't really make any comments on it till I read it (OH Boy I can't wait).

Oh no, plagiarism! Neutronite will be running to your aid, any minute now.