Read About My Nightmare As A Dish Network Customer!

[DucTape]

First off the compaint's are pointed at Dish and should be at the installer.

My installer was a man from Albainia with an accent and at first I thought, O boy here we go, but as I watched him work and talked with him it got better.

He was experienced and did nice work, in fact I helped him with the install because I enjoyed what he was doing. I do not normaly help anyone install anything because I did that for enough years and it's my turn to be the customer, but the dude was rockin so I couldn't help but help. lol

Hey if you have a complaint write it about the right company.

 

[silversurfer]

I am a bit taken back by some of the posts in this thread. Why do we as consumers settle for something that is less than what we expected? Even worse than that according to some of you we should be happy with a mediocre install. Dufoenet agreed to have E* properly install a system into his house. Why should he be expected to plop down an extra 100 bucks to get it done right? This is what is wrong with customer service in this country. The customer is no longer right and these big shot corporations don't care about there customers. All they care about is padding their own wallets. I personally will pay a premium to a company if I know I am going to get quality customer service but I am not going to pay them twice to do a job right in the first place! I think its time for a bit of a revolution in this country. We need to start demanding better service and quit settling for something else. I have always done my own installs and I can tell you that I take the time to do it right the first time every time! Why should a "professional" installer be held to a lesser standard? If everyone complained the way Dufoenet has done then maybe, just maybe E* would have to listen but until we quit accepting mediocrity nothing will change. Just my .02 cents.....

I'm moving this to the general forum because it is a general discussion of satellite installation....

 

[TuxCoder]

I don't know if it was mentioned in here yet but there's a "sister" thread of same title in the Dish Network area: http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=63139

 

[uboatcmdr]

I could sit and debate each point of what the original poster has said versus what I have said and meant. But I'm not. Mr/Ms Dufoenet, I agree with you that you were damaged by this installer, the installer has no business working in this industry. It is apparent that this event has impacted your life greatly, it has prompted you to come here and work yourself up into a frenzy writing about it. That's fine, but what you don't realise is that not everyone will agree with you and many will not agree with the $ amount you place on the damage you claim based on a few fuzzy photos. If you can't win your case here how do expect to win in court? And in the end is all the frustration your putting yourself through worth it? I see what you are claiming and think the damage is real, I'm with you man. But at the same time I think your talking maybe $100-150 tops based on what I can & can't see in the photos. I can work the numbers and see how you came up with the $300 figure (5 months service at $40-60 per month = $200-300).
I know you'd like to rewind the clock and make this event one that never happened, but you can't. What you can do is either put it behind you and move on or push forward and make your case in court. But before you go too far in the battle get some better photos or your fight will be for nothing, and it only cause you more aggrivation & frustraition in the end.

 

[ZandarKoad]

Yeah, I find it amusing... that whole concept of a big giant corporation that makes it a corporate policy to try to screw customers for their money and never provide a service... Riiiiight, that's how all big companies operate.

You had a crappy installer. Should have told him to leave. As for the lag bolts in the roof... those look like the ones that I use. Did you want him to use one inch wood finishing nails? True, it's ugly with the points sticking out, but that's hardly damage. And leakage will only result if, when they are removed, the holes are not patched. It's a 10 second job to properly patch those holes. I do it all the time when customers want an old dish removed. (Just spend $3 on a tube of roof patch. I buy roof patch in BULK. I use it extensively whenever I penetrate any roof.)

Trust me, I've done my share of damage to customer property. The best was when I stepped through a drywall ceiling when working in an attic. POOF. $1400 gone, just like that. But it was MY mistake, and I PAID for it. That lady would have to be a complete and utter idiot to hate dishnet for my mistake. Of course, I didn't try to hide from it either. Point being: sue the installer for your $300 worth of damage. Not Dishnet.

 

[Dish Dude]

Exactly Duc Tape

 

[uboatcmdr]

I am a bit taken back by some of the posts in this thread. Why do we as consumers settle for something that is less than what we expected? Even worse than that according to some of you we should be happy with a mediocre install. Dufoenet agreed to have E* properly install a system into his house. Why should he be expected to plop down an extra 100 bucks to get it done right? This is what is wrong with customer service in this country. The customer is no longer right and these big shot corporations don't care about there customers. All they care about is padding their own wallets. I personally will pay a premium to a company if I know I am going to get quality customer service but I am not going to pay them twice to do a job right in the first place! I think its time for a bit of a revolution in this country. We need to start demanding better service and quit settling for something else. I have always done my own installs and I can tell you that I take the time to do it right the first time every time! Why should a "professional" installer be held to a lesser standard? If everyone complained the way Dufoenet has done then maybe, just maybe E* would have to listen but until we quit accepting mediocrity nothing will change. Just my .02 cents.....

I'm moving this to the general forum because it is a general discussion of satellite installation....

I agree, I don't think he should have had or been asked to pay anything extra for a professional base installation. The only points I had issue with were the $ value placed on the damage that was or was not visible in a few fuzzy photos. As I sate in another post if he can't win his case here based on those photos he need some better photos or he won't win his case in court. And another point of issue, is the $ value really worth the frustraition encounter in the fight to win his case. I realise there is the principle of the thing, but at some point you have to ask yourself "to what means?"

 

[dufoenet]

What the heck are you talking about? As you should know, sometimes the customer is NOT up the installer's arse and doesn't even realize the damage until everything's said and done. I'm sure this lady didn't see the lag bolts and say "oh, that looks beautiful, where do I sign off on this?". No she probably realized it after the fact because I think most times when the installer is UP ON THE ROOF, the customer is INSIDE the house because there's no way they can even see what the guy's doing up there.

And even all that aside, I still disagree that it's her problem because "she signed off on it." Because after the guy did the work, even if the work is BAD, she would STILL have to sign because he just left an 811, 522, LNBF, switch, and dish at her residence. So even if the job TOTALLY SUCKED, she would HAVE TO sign off and at best try to work it out with E* later. What's she going to say "I'm not signing" and then the guy will say "then I'm not leaving the equipment" then she's stuck there fighting with this guy about him having to go back up on the roof IN THE DARK to try and take the equipment back. She was just totally left in a bad spot and did what I imagine 90% of the public would do. I look at signing off on the job like signing for a traffic ticket. It's not an admission of guilt, just to acknowledge that you got the ticket. By your reasoning if he burned down her house and then she signed for the gear, it's "not his problem." Come on.

Also, if she didn't sign, and the guy took his equip. back, what proof would she even have that the guy was there and did the damage? The fact that she signed ends up covering her arse. The job is clearly botched. Why stick up so hard for shoddy installers?

I just wanted to take this opportunity to thank everyone who's replied to my original post who sided with our point of view and sympathized with our plight. I especially wanted to take this opportunity to thank GetMeABeer who really hit the nail on the head with their post. Their post described the situation we were in more aptly than any I've seen, and thanks to this post there's so many points that's already been stressed for me. Firstly, no, I wasn't outside up the installer's arse when he was putting in the dish. This is important for two reasons... 1. Because I'd already told him to run separate lines and NOT to tap into the DirecTV cabeling, so I had no reason to assume he would. He was an English speaking (supposedly) intelligent professional... I would've thought he could've understood what I told him. He obviously didn't because tapping into the lines is what resulted in him pulling at the units in my cabinet, resulting in the cabinet being scratched. This happened for one reason and one reason only, he was too lazy to run his own cable and decided to use what had already been done for him by DirecTV. This was done contrary to the fact that I had new cable coming as part of the install and without him even questioning whether I was still using my DirecTV system or not. It is possible that a consumer subscribes to two services at once because I have and still do! Realistically, he by company policy should not have been allowed to touch my DirecTV receiver in order to attempt to use DirecTV's cable and this was agreed upon by people in the executive offices of Dish Network.

And 2. I wasn't outside during the installs so I didn't see the protuding lags that should've been fastened into my rafters and not in the center of my patio overhang. I didn't see the damage til after, and even if I had, what was I supposed to do? I couldn't refuse to sign off or the installer wouldn't have left the equipment. PLUS, if the installer didn't leave the equipment and get a signature from me, I'm sure that I would've also soon received a bill for the house call soon after that because if he didn't install the Dish Network system, then Dish wouldn't have been responsible to cover the service fee for him coming to my home. Both companies (Carroll's & Dish) could've walked away care free, while I sat at home with a scratched cabinet AND no satellite system.. plus no proof. Not to mention, I couldn't exactly kick the guy from Carroll's out and have another installer come to my home because I was told by Dish Network that as he was the one contracted to do the job, he had to finish the job. I was not told I had the option of having someone else finish the install, so I was left with no choice. At any rate, GetMeABeer, I wanted to thank you for your reply.

To those who did not agree with us, we agree with the point that you have the right to disagree... but please keep in mind that you were not here. You had not been in my home or present when all of this occurred, so you really have no right to cast judgement on whether my claims are a "scam" or not. Throughout the replies I've gotten everything from people agreeing with me, to reasonable and well thought out opinions, to people simply shooting their mouths off with ignorant comments and calling me names, which is simply uncalled for since I never said anything personal about any installer on THIS FORUM. I simply related what I was put through by the local third party installer Dish sent out to my home. Dish Network has even admitted to me over the phone that as I hired Dish Network (not Carroll's) to install my dish, and they were the ones that contracted Carroll's as a third party without our knowledge, that makes everything the Carroll's installer did Dish Network's responsibility. Had I called Carroll's directly and contracted them to come to my home, perhaps I should've brought my complaints to Carroll's. But I didn't. I hired Dish... so what their contractor does in the capacity of working FOR Dish Network by default becomes Dish Networks' responsibility.

I even had someone reply to my post with the outrageous accusation that he's "sure" that my cabinet was already scratched before the install. What?! Oh yes, because I got bored one night so I decided to go over to the cabinet and take a knife to it. I simply couldn't stand it looking nice, I had to go damage it myself. I bought this cabinet specifically FOR this install because I wanted my entertainment counsel area to look nice and be completed so that after the install was done, it wouldn't have to be messed with again for years. My receipt for the cabinet can attest to the fact that I'd just bought the cabinet days before the install, so I wouldn't have even had time to 'decide' to damage it on my own. I know it may be hard for some people to comprehend perfectionism, but I don't think you should have to expect any less from a 'professional' company. We don't have any pint sized children running around my home and we take care of our equipment and furniture. I would expect the same respect from others when they're in my home, but I guess some installers just don't have to go by those rules. On the same hand however, if I was at a shopping market with some of these same people who've told me I shouldn't be worried about the "scratches" on my cabinet, and I happened to "scratch" their nice car with the end bumper of my shopping cart, I'm sure they would be whining like little babies. The point is it's all about personal respect of someone's property and what may not be important to some people may be VERY important to others. In our case, our new cherry wood entertainment center was important to us. Yes, you might be able to cover it up with Old English, but as it IS a cover up that cover up wears off and then you're reminded that your cabinet is not in the condition the installer found it in, because he decided to touch DirecTV property that did not belong to him.

Please keep in mind that we're not saying that all installers are bad or inept. We've had all three satellite service providers out to our house to do installs including Dish Network, DirecTV, and Voom. The guys from DirecTV and Voom were awesome. They were polite, careful, and respectful of our property. The ONLY installers I had trouble with were the ones from Dish Network. I will even go a step further to point out that while I've had some reservations about the lags protuding from the bottom of my patio roof, where even other posters (AND employees / executives of Dish Network) have agreed that those lags should be mounted in the rafters and not hanging out in mid air, even the second and third Dish installers sent out to my home (who were the ones to mis-install the lags) were MUCH better than the installer from Carroll's. The installer from Carroll's was by far the rudest, laziest, and most disrespectful of any installer I've ever met. Even the third and final Dish Network installer who I had out to my home, who was the one who had to re-do Carroll's initial install, verified that Carroll's did NOT install the system properly, and that's why we were only receiving half the signal we should've been for our area.

As a final note, the sad thing about this whole situation is that it didn't have to happen at all because we had no intentions of him ever touching our cabinet, and that was made clear to him before he came and while he was here. His supervisor knew this and he knew this. He was told not to tap into the DirecTV lines and to install the Dish Network receiver on the floor in FRONT of the cabinet where we would then put the receiver in the cabinet ourself after he left. We wanted it installed on the floor and not in the cabinet because yes, we had a feeling something like this would happen. We have seen a few posts where other installers have complained that they should not have had to move furniture. Well the question we ask is IF they indeed don't like to move furniture, then why was this person from Carroll's touching and moving mine when all he had to do was put the damn receiver on the floor and screw the cable into the back?! Was it really worth it for him to dick with a 200 lb. cabinet just to pocket the money Dish Network gave him for installation cable? He caused damage to my cabinet because he didn't want his company to have to pay for a 99 cent run of cable when it was easier to use cable DirecTV had already run. To those of you who say the money they receive from Dish is not for cable, please keep in mind that as Dish Network admitted to me that my install came with 100 feet of cable, that when companies like Carroll's cheats you out of that cable, that's more profit for them and less overhead they have to swallow.

 

[ShadowEKU]

I think i have changed my tune a bit... but i do have a question for you...
did the installer have to run the new line behind the cabinet?

The question itself is benign as it could have easily been run to the left or right and the cabinet left alone. However being the perfectionist you are (not judging you im quasi the same way) i would say that the cable had to be run behind the cabinet... was there enough space (round 1.5 feet) for him to work with or was the cabinet 3 inches from the wall. I do ask this because if there wasnt enough space or if the cable had to be back there he would have had to move the cabinet (this wouldnt have caused the damage though)

 

[dufoenet]

I am going to post this to our retailers site.

Who did you ordered your Dish Network service and equipment who did you order it from? A local retailer? Or Dish Network themselves?

We ordered the service & equipment DIRECTLY from Dish Network. I did not deal through a third party.. they were the ones that contracted the third party w/o me knowing. Incidentally, when I called Dish Network to order the service I was very specific in wanting to know what I could and would be getting. I was told by about three different operators that I would be receiving a HD DVR all in one unit (because this would be comparable to the DirecTV IRD w/ built in TiVo I originally had). Everyone I talked to said "Yes yes, you'll get an HD DVR all in one unit."

To my surprise, the third party installer came out to my home w/ the equipment only for me to find out that NO, I wasn't getting that receiver. I was getting an HD receiver...without a hard drive. To add insult to injury, imagine my surprise when the installer took the HD receiver out of the box only to have the front door fall off of it. The installer did not care and told me that I shouldn't complain because you don't really need the "damn access door" anyway. It was broken off of the hinge. I found out later that the installers' (Carroll's Satellite) contact information was inside the receiver which was displayed when you pressed the help button, so in actuality the receiver came from Carroll's, and was not shipped to me directly from Dish as I was told. So not only did I not get what I was told I would, but I got stuck w/ a damaged (whether cosmetically or not, it was still damaged) receiver right off the bat!

 

[dufoenet]

When he started grabbing the equipment out the front of the entertainment center you should have said something like, "be careful, your damaging my furniture" or "hold on, I'll pull that away from the wall so you can do your wiring" (he had to either pull out the equipment or pull it away from the wall, how else was he supposed to install wiring in that area). You were there, you saw him move the equipment, you saw what was happening, you could have said something to make it stop at any point but didn't.

I appreciate your comments about stress and agree with them very much. My problem is I expect people that portay themselves to be professionals to be exactly that. I am concerned however that you think I could've stopped this installer from moving my cabinet or equipment which implies to me that you didn't read my WHOLE article. First of all, I never intended for him to touch my cabinet nor my DirecTV receiver in the first place. I made it clear to Dish Network and the installers supervisor as well as the installer when he entered my home that he was to install the Dish receiver on the FLOOR in FRONT of the cabinet, because I wanted to put it in the cabinet myself after he left. I had no reason to think he needed the DirecTV cable that was inside my cabinet screwed into the back of my DirecTV receiver because he was also instructed to NOT disconnect my DirecTV line. I was guaranteed that as I had 100 feet of cable coming to me, my DirecTV line would NOT be touched.

To make a long story short, I turned my back on him for just five seconds, not even realizing that he had already disconnected my DirecTV dish on the outside, only to turn back around and find that he had already moved the heavy metal DirecTV TiVo and my cabinet, thus causing the damage while my back was turned. In other words, I had no time to stop him because by the time I could have, the damage had already been done.

 

[ShadowEKU]

that still leaves my space question unanswered as it could be relavent to the movement of the cabinet... as for disconnecting your directivo... thats the installers dumb ass fault... out of curiosity why do you think the series ones are so heavy.. they arent taht bad.

 

[dufoenet]

I think i have changed my tune a bit... but i do have a question for you...
did the installer have to run the new line behind the cabinet?

The question itself is benign as it could have easily been run to the left or right and the cabinet left alone. However being the perfectionist you are (not judging you im quasi the same way) i would say that the cable had to be run behind the cabinet... was there enough space (round 1.5 feet) for him to work with or was the cabinet 3 inches from the wall. I do ask this because if there wasnt enough space or if the cable had to be back there he would have had to move the cabinet (this wouldnt have caused the damage though)

As you will see in my other posts, he didn't have to deal with the cabinet at all! Before he even came on my property it was understood through countless phone calls to Dish and his supervisor at Carroll's that I wanted the receiver to be installed on the floor in FRONT of my cabinet because I wanted to avoid what ultimately happened. This was also made clear to the installer at least 10 times while he was at my home before it happened. I am not exactly a novice when it comes to unconnecting and reconnecting receivers, at least on the inside of my home. I had feared that this new cabinet that I had bought for this install might be scratched because I knew that people were not as careful as I am, because as you say, I am a perfectionist.

I was guaranteed by all that as I had 100 feet of cable coming that my DirecTV system nor my cabinet would be touched by this installer. My mistake was not going outside with him because if I did then I would've realized that rather than installing new cable as he was told, he disconnected my DirecTV dish and patched the line into his Dish Network install. As I stated in another post here, when he came inside I was not aware that he used my DirecTV cable and saw no reason why he would need to move my DirecTV receiver nor my cabinet to get the cable out.

The cabinet is 6 separate sections and very deep and very wide. When a unit is inside the cabinet compartment the cable goes out the back hole of the cabinet. It is not easy to install anything in this cabinet and that is why I made it clear a multitude of times that I wanted the receiver installed on the floor and I would put it in the cabinet myself. If I would have known he disconnected my DirecTV cable outside then I certainly would've moved the cabinet for him! When he came inside I had no reason to believe that I wasn't getting new cable because this was relayed to me by him in person that he understood. I turned my back for only about five seconds or more not even knowing that he was after my DirecTV cable, only to turn around to see that he had already scratched and moved the cabinet as well as the DirecTV receiver which had no bearing on this install.

 

[dufoenet]

We have a special name around our shop for customers like this.

The Urban Princess... :dev

Yes, and we have special names for representatives like you around our home.

The bottom line is, if installers like you took more pride and TIME in their installs then perhaps you wouldn't have enough FREE TIME to loaf around your office and call your customers names. Why don't you do everyone a service and let them know the name of your company and the town you work out of because after you have just admitted that you disrespect customers I am sure you will have everyone beating down your door wanting to hire you for their install!

 

[dufoenet]

that still leaves my space question unanswered as it could be relavent to the movement of the cabinet... as for disconnecting your directivo... thats the installers dumb ass fault... out of curiosity why do you think the series ones are so heavy.. they arent taht bad.

To answer your question, yes, the cabinet was two inches or more away from the wall, but it sounds like you're thinking that the cable went through the wall behind the cabinet, which is not the case. First of all, he didn't come through the wall at all because he tapped into the DirecTV cable that was already run and stuck through the wall. Secondly, the point at which the cable comes in the house from outside is NOT behind my cabinet. The cable comes in my home from outside via a small hole drilled in the corner of my living room near a window.. which is approximately 12 feet away from the cabinet. So no, he wouldn't have needed to pull the cabinet out to retreive the cable coming through the wall into the house.

Knowing that the cable came through the wall a good 12 feet away from the cabinet, this fact would've made it EVEN EASIER for the installer to take the cable from the wall, into the living room (away from the cabinet), and install the receiver on the floor which is where we wanted him to install it. This would've been especially easy considering he was to install NEW cable. BTW, he did verbally tell us before he touched everything that he did understand that we wanted new cable and that it was to be installed on the floor. We annoyingly made sure he understood this, repeating it several times, as we always speak in what I call plain and concise black and white.

The thing that irked me was even after the installer had disobeyed us and disconnected the cable from the back of my DirecTV TiVo, he kept pulling at other cables behind my cabinet that went to OTHER units. He had the cable he "needed" in his hand, yet he proceeded to yank at other cables that had nothing to do with satellite TV. As mentioned, we're profectionists and we keep our installs very neat. All of the cables running behind our many electronic units are neatly arranged and tied up with cable ties. Naturally if you pull one, it's going to cause a domino effect because one unit is naturally wired to the other one. After this installer literally ravaged the wires & cables we had run behind the cabinet, it took us hours (seriously, w/o exaggerating!) to put everything back the way it was.

The point still remains that all he had to do was put in the new cable we had coming to us (as verified by Dish) and run it through the hole from outside (which was AWAY from the cabinet) and install the receiver on the floor in front of the cabinet! We were going to put it in the cabinet ourselves later... so there was NO reason for this to happen.. and equally no reason to be debating the cabinet as it's involvement was unnecessary to begin with, which just makes this whole instance of damage even more outrageous.

As far as debating why I would think the DirectTV TiVo unit was heavy... I say it was because it was the old series 1 which to me was heavier than the newer ones. As to how heavy it actually was, that is a matter of opinion, but one thing is clear. It was certainly heavy enough to have caused the scratches when this moron wasn't authorized to touch equipment that didn't belong to Dish Network to begin with.

 

[dufoenet]

If you can't win your case here how do expect to win in court?

I really don't think you're in any legal position to predict whether I would win in court or not and as far as this forum is concerned, it seems to me that if you check I have as many for me as you seem to think I have against me. At any rate, the general consensus seems to be that this is a poor installer that shouldn't even be in this business. So what makes you think a judge wouldn't see it my way also? If one beleives that an installer is inept, than it's certainly possible that all my claims are true... Besides, you yourself counterdict stating that I couldn't win in court when you say I may get around $150 for damages because to me that's winning. It's certainly more than I'm getting reimbursed for from this non-caring company so far.

BTW, the $300 we mentioned was the price of the cabinet. We never said we should or shouldn't get that amount, but just so you know we didn't come up w/ that amount based on the idea that we think we should get EVERY cent we paid for programming in the 5 months returned. You can't possibly think that we're that naive. Besides, in that case, we'd actually be asking for $500-600 back, as we paid slightly over $100 for programming a month.

 

[ShadowEKU]

To answer your question, yes, the cabinet was two inches or more away from the wall, but it sounds like you're thinking that the cable went through the wall behind the cabinet, which is not the case. First of all, he didn't come through the wall at all because he tapped into the DirecTV cable that was already run and stuck through the wall. Secondly, the point at which the cable comes in the house from outside is NOT behind my cabinet. The cable comes in my home from outside via a small hole drilled in the corner of my living room near a window.. which is approximately 12 feet away from the cabinet. So no, he wouldn't have needed to pull the cabinet out to retreive the cable coming through the wall into the house.

Knowing that the cable came through the wall a good 12 feet away from the cabinet, this fact would've made it EVEN EASIER for the installer to take the cable from the wall, into the living room (away from the cabinet), and install the receiver on the floor which is where we wanted him to install it. This would've been especially easy considering he was to install NEW cable. BTW, he did verbally tell us before he touched everything that he did understand that we wanted new cable and that it was to be installed on the floor. We annoyingly made sure he understood this, repeating it several times, as we always speak in what I call plain and concise black and white.

The thing that irked me was even after the installer had disobeyed us and disconnected the cable from the back of my DirecTV TiVo, he kept pulling at other cables behind my cabinet that went to OTHER units. He had the cable he "needed" in his hand, yet he proceeded to yank at other cables that had nothing to do with satellite TV. As mentioned, we're profectionists and we keep our installs very neat. All of the cables running behind our many electronic units are neatly arranged and tied up with cable ties. Naturally if you pull one, it's going to cause a domino effect because one unit is naturally wired to the other one. After this installer literally ravaged the wires & cables we had run behind the cabinet, it took us hours (seriously, w/o exaggerating!) to put everything back the way it was.

The point still remains that all he had to do was put in the new cable we had coming to us (as verified by Dish) and run it through the hole from outside (which was AWAY from the cabinet) and install the receiver on the floor in front of the cabinet! We were going to put it in the cabinet ourselves later... so there was NO reason for this to happen.. and equally no reason to be debating the cabinet as it's involvement was unnecessary to begin with, which just makes this whole instance of damage even more outrageous.

As far as debating why I would think the DirectTV TiVo unit was heavy... I say it was because it was the old series 1 which to me was heavier than the newer ones. As to how heavy it actually was, that is a matter of opinion, but one thing is clear. It was certainly heavy enough to have caused the scratches when this moron wasn't authorized to touch equipment that didn't belong to Dish Network to begin with.

my post wasnt to argue with you to be honest i just wanted a little clarification... all you had to say was no it came from a spot about 12 feet away as opposed to writing a page on it... I just wondered because this installer is becoming (to me) more and more of a moron.

The post about court... you signed the contract regardless of whether or not you read it or actually agreed with it you signed it. that is all they even have to bring to court and your case will essentially be dismissed. Unfortunately I personally stick to your side as it would strike a blow (all be it a small one) against half assed installers. unfortunately if i was a member of the bar and i saw that contract signed by you and you were proven sane then i wouldnt even take the case... and for the record i studied a lot of law in college and my Father, Mother in Law and Late uncle are/were all lawyers.

Unfortunately whether or not they caused damage you signed off on it saying that there everything was done satisfactorally. If you hadnt signed it you would not be liable to pay for the service call (Dish network, and about everyone else's, terms of service say you wouldnt have to pay). frankly what happened is unfortunate. But your legal case, unfortunately, doesnt hold water (unless you could get one of those $400 an hour lawyers)

I wish you the best in your resolution of this.

 

[uboatcmdr]

I really don't think you're in any legal position to predict whether I would win in court or not and as far as this forum is concerned, it seems to me that if you check I have as many for me as you seem to think I have against me. At any rate, the general consensus seems to be that this is a poor installer that shouldn't even be in this business. So what makes you think a judge wouldn't see it my way also? If one beleives that an installer is inept, than it's certainly possible that all my claims are true... Besides, you yourself counterdict stating that I couldn't win in court when you say I may get around $150 for damages because to me that's winning. It's certainly more than I'm getting reimbursed for from this non-caring company so far.

BTW, the $300 we mentioned was the price of the cabinet. We never said we should or shouldn't get that amount, but just so you know we didn't come up w/ that amount based on the idea that we think we should get EVERY cent we paid for programming in the 5 months returned. You can't possibly think that we're that naive. Besides, in that case, we'd actually be asking for $500-600 back, as we paid slightly over $100 for programming a month.

I suggest you take a deep breath and then re-read my post, and those of some others. I am on your side, some others are not. I am just not with you on the $ value you claim for the damage. Thus far all you have presented is some fuzzy photographs which may show glare off the edges or may be scratches or even gouges in the wood, it's impossible to tell from the photos presented. Now before you go on the attack and say anything, please allow me to give you my qualifications in offering an opinion on your photos. While I may install Directv satellite systems now, I am a retired professional photographer with over 30 years experience working for NASA at Marshall Space Flight Center, Army Missile Command Test & Evaluations at Redstone Arsenal and for several area lawyers investigating accidents and documenting property damage. My professional background and the fact that I have presented photographs & testified in a court of law as an expert witness on numerous occasions more than qualifies me to offer up an opinion on your fuzzy photos. My advice is that if you get yourself some DECENT photographs of the damage to the entertainment center then you will have a chance to win your case. Present good clear photos of the damage and a receipt showing the cabinet was new, and you'll probably get your full $300. I only offer my opinion to help, if you want to follow my advice then good, if not and you press on with only those fuzzy photos as evidence, I wish you the best of luck, I hope the judge does laugh too hard.

 

[Dish Dude]

I am definitely not siding with the installer from Carrol's he was, is and always will be a moron, someone should run him out of the business. He is not a professional, did you get a hold of the local DNS office? NOT the call center, they will put the pressure on the subcontractor to get it taken care of. Call their and ask to talk to their GM or IM, that should do the trick. The roof penetration outside that is a sticky issue, they used the correct sized bolts, although they should have had the middle ones in the rafters, but it is over a non-living space. Sue the hell off of Carrol's but find the local office to put the pressure on. Go after the damage to the entertainment center you could win that one, but the roof issue isn't going to fly

 

[GetMeABeer]

MODERATOR: This page needs a place holder in the Dish Network forum. After it was moved there was no "moved" shortcut put in its place and I'm sure people who saw it there earlier will not be able to find it again. I thought it had been deleted until I did a search and found it here.

We have a special name around our shop for customers like this. The Urban Princess...

Yes, and we have special names for representatives like you around our home.

LMAO.

dufoenet, thank you for the thank you, but it is not necessary. Believe me, MOST people out in real world (not on satellite message board) will agree with you and everything you have said. The problem you are having here with some members here goes back to something especially that silversurfer01973 said earlier...

Why do we as consumers settle for something that is less than what we expected? Even worse than that according to some of you we should be happy with a mediocre install...This is what is wrong with customer service in this country. The customer is no longer right and these big shot corporations don't care about there customers.

This is very accurate description of the world today, but EVEN MORE SO when it come to satellite installation. Here is why...

Pretty much every service or utility under the sun...Gas, electric, water, phone, DSL, cable TV, cable internet, etc. does THEIR OWN installation and service. The person who come into your home and does the work is actually a real employee of the company you are hiring and dealing with for service. Meaning they are actually ACCOUNTABLE in a REAL way. And even the ones that do use a third-party contractor (like on certain occasion, Comcast cable does this for example) the company doesn't throw it in your face and say, "Hey, *wipes hands* we've got nothing to do with it, your problem is with the 'contractor'."

When Comcast was doing major updating in my neighborhood (and apparently they needed more employees than they already had) they brought in third-party contractors to assist them. These workers drove white vans that had big magnet stickers on the side of the van with Comcast logo and identifying information that they were hired by Comcast to assist in the project. Now, these men had all the same fancy equipment, training, and supervision, that the regular Comcast workers did, they just were not full-time regular employees of Comcast and Comcast was clear about this to residents. And Comcast stood 100% behind everything these workers did and had the 1-800-Comcast number marked everywhere for residents who might have had a problem. Very professional. Comcast did what (I believe) a company should do when they send a representative into the homes and neighborhoods of America, they stood 100% behind those representatives and accepted responsibility for the good - OR BAD - that those workers did.

Now, compare this to the satellite industry. What a nice little scam these companies have running. All the installers they are sending into the homes of customers are "contractors." No training requirements. No standards. No testing. No real E* supervision. No nothing! Read the satellite message boards and often you will see messages like, "Hi, I'm a new installer going on my first job in two days, can anyone recommend what tools I will need for the job?"

If you wanted to dufoenet, YOU could go out TOMORROW and install satellite systems for E*. Installers who don't speak English, don't have the proper tools, are not familiar with the receivers or other equipment, damage the customer's residence, spend hours on their walkie-talkie cell phones in another language trying to get instructions on what to do, try to up-sell the customer for things that are INCLUDED with the "free professional install," sneakily make customers sign hidden contracts (to "protect themselves" so E* doesn't "screw them" - for unhappy customers because of an install THEY screwed up in the first place or because of crappy equipment they so happily install for a living) etc. are very common. In fact, when you consider that PROPER grounding of these systems is required (and rarely done) I would not be going out on the limb to say that I believe MOST E* installs are not done properly up to code.

Now, with all this you would think there would be a revolt of satellite customers right? Wrong. Like what silversurfer01973 said earlier, the good sheep of America eat a big McCrap sandwich and say, "Hmmm...delicious! May I have some more please?"

Now remember, you have come to a satellite message board where the majority of customers here have already been indoctrinated into this kind of third-party installer madness. And the vast, vast, vast majority of people on these message boards accept without problem the way these satellite companies do installs and do business. I do not. And like you, most THINKING PEOPLE will not either. I was tricked by a third-party installer into signing a contract and yes, I AM bitter about this, both to E* and the contractor. In the country where I come from this tricking people into contracts is unheard of. Even here in the states most utilities and companies like I listed above do NOT practice this trickery. But the satellite companies allow their contractors to do this. It is my belief that E* should NOT use installers who practice these crooked and shoddy practices. But that's the beauty of the third-party contractor..."Hey, it's not our problem...go after the contractor."

Also consider that the majority of INSTALLERS on these boards ARE experienced and knowledgeable. After all, they come here even in their free time so you know that they take their work seriously. These people fall into two groups. The first group is honest and decent and says something like, "That installer should be fired." The second group is like a bunch of partisan hacks who want to tow the party line. These are the ones who try to shift the blame and say the customer is making a mountain from a mole hill. They say "you signed off on the job...too late now...ha, ha, sucker." They say "you won't get far with those blurry pictures." They say "I'm sure the damage was already there, you're just a scammer." They say "We have a special name around our shop for customers like this. The Urban Princess," etc. etc. You see, they try to stick up for their installer brothers, but they don't realize that to regular people on the outside looking in, they look like real jerks who refuse to accept the obvious.

The fact that all the E* "executives" you have talked to admitted that you were right and they (E* AND the contractor) were wrong is all the ammunition you need on this message board or in court. The third installer (the one who actually works for the company) said the install was done incorrectly and had to do it all over again. It doesn't make a sheets worth of difference what contract you signed or what you agreed to. The contract was voided by the original installer's failure to do the job properly. In law and contracts and a situation like yours, there is an expectation that the service/equipment provided will work as promised/advertised. After all, that's why the guy came to your house...to install a working system, not to roll the dice and just hope everything works out. And you (a layperson) can't be expected to know if the install was proper or not when the original installer left your house. And never forget when you are structuring your argument, you DID NOT hire a contractor, you called 1-800-Dish and hired DISH NETWORK (E*). If they want to use "contractors" without your knowledge until after the fact, that's their business, not yours. That contract isn't worth the paper it's written on. The official E* installer (a REAL representative of the company you called/hired and not a contractor) acknowledged the job was done incorrect as have other E* agents you have spoken to. You have NOTHING to worry about. They have admitted guilt. The only thing remaining to be resolved is whether they make good on the damage voluntarily or if a court has to order them to make good. Good luck.