Primestar 84E/BSC621-2 LNBF Experiment

[satcom1]

Interesting Perspective

I have been following this thread since it's creation. Very cool.
I suggest the following:
Unless the dish is warping/flexing because of heat, I would paint it Black so it absorbs more heat from the sun.
My theory is that there would be more of a problem with the dish reflecting the suns light/heat toward the LNB and less of a problem with the dish absorbing the heat (and thus not reflecting it toward the LNB).

I agree that setting up a tent would be a great way to block the sun temporarily to see if that changes anything.

I see merit in what you are suggesting. I have also noticed that some folks with P*E dishes have painted them dark charcoal or black.

This sounds like a whole nother project to start and gather data on.

This forum has some great members!

I love to TINKER with FTA

No cryptic replies in this thread. Well, maybe one or two.

 

[satcom1]

Thanks for that

just a heads up,the rings are on there way from Europe satcom1.

I'll be looking forward to that.

It will be iteresting to see how they perform on different types of dishes and LNBF's.

 

[satcom1]

Grandchildren

Hey Bloomdog-

Spent the weekend with my new granddaughter so didn't time to test anything. I will post and photograph all results. Wish me luck!

I babysat for my 2 1/2 year old grandson on Wednesday. I was actually a little scared when my daughter got in her car and drove down the driveway, Just at that moment the Dish network receiver said "Smart card no longer valid for this receiver" and we lost Curious George.

I looked for a Baby Einstien DVD to play but couldn't figure out how to switch to the DVD player.

Well, we had a great time anyhow. He was sitting so close to me when his mother came home that she had to take a picture.

 

[DREAMFOX1]

Certainly, that will improve your C-Band performance. You most likely won't see much more improvement on KU.

Just for grins, take a SQ reading on HITN TV 123( 127.5 Offset ). Then put your C-Band LNBF at the center of your dish arm so you are 123 on the LNBF and see what the reading changes to. This will tell us how much offset loss if any you have for the sidemount.

Man, that is so cool that you came up with 8% SQ improvement with this improved BSC421 LNBF.

Will try this out just as soon as I recieve the dish.

 

[Dale_Gribble]

hello all, I am new to the FTA hobby, but I have a 40 x 44 inch P* that I modified for C-band with a BSC421. I live in Wisconsin and I now get the 5 network stations from the Virgin Islands on 99west. I have my LNBF mounted at the same height and angle as the original LNBF, but through trial and error I ended up moving it 5 inches closer to the dish. Has anyone else tried this? I could not get those Virgin Island stations at all from the original location. I started out getting just one station on 99 west (WH1), then noticed a SQ improvement when I moved the BSC421 closer to the dish. Moved it a half inch at a time, it kept getting better, by the time I ad moved it 3 inches closer, I started getting the Virgin Island stations, and after moving it 5 inches and adding a little sheet metal to the outer scaler ring, I now get a good picture on all 5 of them. SQ is 64-66% on my Coolsat 5000 about 95% of the time anyway. If you get to 63% or lower on a Coolsat 5000, it starts to mess up the picture. I like the scaler ring mods that I've seen here, going to give some of those a try. Here are some pictures of my setup:

geocities.com/brian1509/cband.html

 

[Mr Tony]

welcome and very cool

what kind of quality on the meter do you get and what box are you using?

 

[satcom1]

Welcome Dale!

hello all, I am new to the FTA hobby, but I have a 40 x 44 inch P* that I modified for C-band with a BSC421. I live in Wisconsin and I now get the 5 network stations from the Virgin Islands on 99west. I have my LNBF mounted at the same height and angle as the original LNBF, but through trial and error I ended up moving it 5 inches closer to the dish. Has anyone else tried this? I could not get those Virgin Island stations at all from the original location. I started out getting just one station on 99 west (WH1), then noticed a SQ improvement when I moved the BSC421 closer to the dish. Moved it a half inch at a time, it kept getting better, by the time I ad moved it 3 inches closer, I started getting the Virgin Island stations, and after moving it 5 inches and adding a little sheet metal to the outer scaler ring, I now get a good picture on all 5 of them. SQ is 64-66% on my Coolsat 5000 about 95% of the time anyway. If you get to 63% or lower on a Coolsat 5000, it starts to mess up the picture. I like the scaler ring mods that I've seen here, going to give some of those a try. Here are some pictures of my setup:

geocities.com/brian1509/cband.html

I copied every one of your pictures to My Pictures where I could enlarge them and study them better.

:up:up:up:up Very nicely done! You put a lot of work into the fabrication of mounting hardware and you made it universal for the LNBF and Scalar to be adjusted seperately. Very good concept.

I take it you've been around FTA for some time, is that right?

You managed to pick the best dish and LNBF as well as very good concept.

What kind of success do you have with the KU LNBF? It is above the primary focal point of the dish and you would need to tip the dish top back to focus on it.

Have you thought about sidemounting the KU LNBF and using offsets and a motor?

Thanks for sharing this good stuff.

Maybe you could post a close up picture of the Scalar ring modification and provide a dimension.

Dale, Linxuman had just completed a very comprehensive study of the same dish you have and another LNBF. Here is the link.

http://www.satelliteguys.us/free-ai...-one-meter-primestar-mini-bud-experiment.html

 

[Dale_Gribble]

The scaler ring modification is just a piece of aluminum sheet-metal 2 and 1/2 inches wide, but it's not flush with the back of the scaler rings. It's actually pushed back about 1/2 inch past the back of the rings, so maybe it's a little too wide. It's not fastened down in any way, in fact this morning it was only a piece of tin-foil, and this afternoon I upgraded to aluminum sheet metal. It's stove pipe for a water heater, and because it's aluminum it's easy to fold so you can hook multiple pieces together and it cuts with a regular pair of scissors, you don't need a tin snips.

I did try side mounting the KU LNBF, but I was not willing to move the C-band sideways at all, because I figured moving it off center means I am not using 100% of the dish surface. So that left me with moving the KU LNBF about 6 inches, and the drop in SQ was too much in my opinion. I could still get the Fox stations on 101west and 123west, but now the dish would be touchy as hell with no room for error on KU band, just like it already is on C-band. And since I don't have the motor, changing elevation is no big deal anyway. I might try cutting the scaler ring (I have an extra one), maybe then I can upgrade to a motor...

The SQ meter is on the Coolsat 5000. Going from 63% up to 66% with the scaler ring mod does not sound impressive, but on the Coolsat the 63% picture has so many errors it's almost unwatchable. But at 66% it's almost perfect, no errors for maybe 10 or 20 minutes, then it will have an error for just a split second.

I am new to FTA but not new at all to modifying things in general. The FTA thing is something I have been thinking about for about a year now, but didn't do it at first because from looking at prices of a complete new motorized set-up of roughly $300, that was a sticking point. But then about a month ago I spotted a P* dish and asked if I could have it, then I bought a coolsat 5000 for $40 shipped off ebay and another $30 for the BSC421 and here I am. It's all about NFL games for me, that's why I am doing this, so of coarse I was thrilled to get the network stations on 99west. Now if I could get the feed from a game that would be fun.

 

[satcom1]

Great Report

Dale-

That is very usefull information and confirms what I suspected about center mounting the C-Band LNBF.

Mike Kohl has a website and has done a study of P* versus other dishes and your dish compares to larger dishes.

My intent is to squeeze every SQ% out of a 1 meter dish on C-Band. It is like HAM radio using the FLEA power transmitters to DX the MOST stations on the net. Also there are a lot of people who can only put up a 1 meter dish by local code.

Your Scalar ring modification will find interest with others who are working on similar projects. It supports my findigs with two added rings on my Scalar ring posted earlier and that was on a 76 cm Winegard round offset dish C-Band. my Micro-BUD experiment.

My guess is that If you can find another P* 1 meter dish that would let you have a dedicated KU dish.

Sounds like you will be going bigger on your C-Band dish and then you can dedicate the old dish to KU.


Thanks,

 

[satcom1]

Two dish system?

Will try this out just as soon as I recieve the dish.

DREAMFOX1-

Is your plan to just leave your old dish for KU and use the 1.2 meter fo C-band?

 

[satcom1]

Improved BSC421

Correction please-

 

[Mr Tony]

what is there to correct? The ASC421 I have shows 13K on the label.
Just because something says "better" doesn't really mean it is
I've used 35K LNB's (the old ones) that worked better than a 17K

 

[Mr Tony]

I am dissapointed in how many "Old Timers" with over 30K posts don't get the importance of a mini-bud. There is a great benefit to growth of FTA with the mini-bud. Just because they failed should not discourage others! Guess their egos are bigger then their avatars.

what the hell was that comment for? Don't know why you feel the need to take a jab at me because I tried to do a mini-bud and decided against it. huh, last I checked I DID do one a while back but had other ideas for that particular dish. As you could have read in my other thread (2 LNB's on a 6 footer) I am very limited with my line of site currently. With 2 dishes on the roof and 3 on the deck (1 C-Band) once I put the new Primestar up I had a line of site of 89-97 max..maybe 99 so I tried to make it work and after a little while I decided on a different way of doing it. So I did the 2 LNB on one dish and it worked for what I wanted it to do and it gave folks other ideas if they have a fixed C-Band dish. All I cared to get on 99W is the nets, ABC HD and the syndicated feeds which I can get just fine with my current setup now. So I got what I wanted accomplished.
With my C-band dish I can see from 87-107 on the deck. The other dish gets put out in front of the garage which is on the other side of the house to see the other stuff.

I love "Tinkering" with FTA!

I do too. But I also have other things to do so I am limited on when I can work on stuff

 

[DREAMFOX1]

???


OK

Wondering if current motor will be able to move new dish.

May need to buy a new one just to be safe.

 

[DREAMFOX1]

DREAMFOX1-

Is your plan to just leave your old dish for KU and use the 1.2 meter fo C-band?

Will be upgrading to the 1.2 meter dish.

Moving current dish to another location for ku only use.

New dish will be used for C-band & KU.

 

[Mr Tony]

Wondering if current motor will be able to move new dish.

what motor? I know the SG2100 claims it can move a 1.2m dish but we've seen issues because of the weight of the dish

 

[satcom1]

The rath of Iceburg!

what the hell was that comment for? Don't know why you feel the need to take a jab at me because I tried to do a mini-bud and decided against it. huh, last I checked I DID do one a while back but had other ideas for that particular dish. As you could have read in my other thread (2 LNB's on a 6 footer) I am very limited with my line of site currently. With 2 dishes on the roof and 3 on the deck (1 C-Band) once I put the new Primestar up I had a line of site of 89-97 max..maybe 99 so I tried to make it work and after a little while I decided on a different way of doing it. So I did the 2 LNB on one dish and it worked for what I wanted it to do and it gave folks other ideas if they have a fixed C-Band dish. All I cared to get on 99W is the nets, ABC HD and the syndicated feeds which I can get just fine with my current setup now. So I got what I wanted accomplished.
With my C-band dish I can see from 87-107 on the deck. The other dish gets put out in front of the garage which is on the other side of the house to see the other stuff.


I do too. But I also have other things to do so I am limited on when I can work on stuff

I just find some of your comments cryptic and not informative. In another thread you said that Linuxman's Primestar experiment was tinkerig and belittled It by your comment. As a forum moderator you should keep an open mind to what others are doing. There are a few guys here that like to POOH POOH anybodies ideas.

When I first came on this forum (Newbie) I kept getting my entries to a contest deleted and didn't understand why. If your going to do that then you should explain why.

Sorry, I made you lose your temper and you swore, there should be no place for that in any forum.

I have enjoyed seeing others get excited about the work that some of the posters to this thread have done. Being that there is such great interest in this subject, being "a waste of time and resources" and "Tinkering" are better not said.

Over 5,000 viewings

I'd like to thank all who have supported this and hope that the work continues.

SATCOM1

 

[satcom1]

Others experience proves different

what is there to correct? The ASC421 I have shows 13K on the label.
Just because something says "better" doesn't really mean it is
I've used 35K LNB's (the old ones) that worked better than a 17K

That is your experience.

DREAMFOX1 found an 8% improvement.

Are you saying DMSI is advertising false hoods?

They clearly state that this improved over the older LNBF.

I'll take their word for it.

 

[Mr Tony]

I just find some of your comments cryptic and not informative. In another thread you said that Linuxman's Primestar experiment was tinkerig and belittled It by your comment. As a forum moderator you should keep an open mind to what others are doing. There are a few guys here that like to POOH POOH anybodies ideas.

obviously you havent read my posts. I love when folks tinker with things. heck I'm one of them. KU on a 18", KU on a DirecTV Phase II, multiple LNB's on a dish, multiple C-band LNB's on a 6 footer and a P* C-Band setup is a few of the items I've done. I have no issues with folks trying new things. heck, we enjoy them.

When I first came on this forum (Newbie) I kept getting my entries to a contest deleted and didn't understand why. If your going to do that then you should explain why.

the entries for the wrong contest (or was it expired, I forget). But it was communicated

Sorry, I made you lose your temper and you swore, there should be no place for that in any forum.

I didnt lose my temper so obviously you havent been here long enough to know how I run the FTA area I guess when someone attacks me (or has a smartalecky comment) I feel I have the right to comment.

I have enjoyed seeing others get excited about the work that some of the posters to this thread have done. Being that there is such great interest in this subject, being "a waste of time and resources" and "Tinkering" are better not said.

tinkering with systems is what we do best here. So I guess because I havent posted everytime you posted about an update you feel neglected or something?
Dont know why you feel that way

 

[Mr Tony]

That is your experience.

DREAMFOX1 found an 8% improvement.

Are you saying DMSI is advertising false hoods?

They clearly state that this improved over the older LNBF.

I'll take their word for it.

I personally try things and make my own judgements over reading what someone claims

I've seen LNB's that "claim" .3 n/f yet my old ExpressVu .7 or .8 KU LNB works better
I've seen boxes that "claim" blind scan but they don't

so I guess its YMMV