On the fence, Hopper with Sling vs Genie plus Nomad

[natboomer]

OK, I’m on the fence here about upgrading to either Hopper with Sling or switching over to Direct. I currently have a 622 and 211. I’m thinking of upgrading to the Hopper with Sling and 2 Joeys or Genie and 2 mini clients (plus nomad). I searched, but couldn't find anything definitive.

If you transfer a recording to an iPad with the Hopper with Sling, does it delete the original recording from the DVR? I read something on the Dish web site last week that said that, but now I can’t seem to find it. Same question with regards to the nomad. I can’t seem to find any definitive answer.

Also, what does each of the 2 consider “prohibited content” (can’t be transferred)? I know PPV and OTA, but are there any others? Premiums (HBO, MAX, SHO, etc.)?

Anyone that has either/both, your feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

DISH with Sling only deletes the show from your DVR is there is DRM on it (like a show from HBO) most channels on DISH do not use DRM.

You can't transfer PPV, but I believe OTA transfers fine.

 

[dare2be]

Without knowing the particular pros and cons of each system, I would say that just getting a new customer discount to try out the Genie for 2 years may be in your best interests, if only just to save money during that time. Then switch back 2 years later to see what the Hopper line has in store by then.

 

[Scherrman]

I don't know enough about the Genie but I would say which ever one you decide on you're going to love. From what I can gather, having two Hoppers beats out having the Genie but the Genie has a much better VOD setup. I know for a fact that the Hopper system is amazing and I've ready a lot about the Genie being a great system. Win/Win

 

[natboomer]

Grrr, I DVR most of the HBO and SHO series. Scott, is there any way to determine what is DRM protected or is it just assumed all content from HBO, SHO, MAX? My DVR is almost full, all of the time. What I would love to do is be able to transfer a season or two when I have to go on a plane; you can blast through a few seasons in one trip. If it's going to delete the original from the DVR it's rather pointless to me since I may not get a chance to view the transferred program, then I'm possibly stuck watching it on an iPad at home...and within a 30 day window. Is the DRM protected content only the stuff that also expires from the DVR itself (i.e. can't backup to external hard drive either?) Do they both do this with the premium channels?

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Assume that all content from the pay channels is protected by DRM.

This is what those channels want its not something Directv and Dish want to do.


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[Claude Greiner]

Just remember the hopper only has 3 tuners and you may need 2 hoppers to work the way it was intended to work.

 

[Smwoodward]

Just remember the hopper only has 3 tuners and you may need 2 hoppers to work the way it was intended to work.

Ouch, $149 for the nomad. You can get the hopper with sling for free and you will get Internet streaming that directv doesn't offer. I do like that I can watch any show I want even if I didn't prepare it for mobile.

I suspect that the nomad would have the same type of restrictions as the hopper transfers would also.

Most things I have moved over has worked great and it keeps the show on the hopper. You can prepare anything for mobile and it will stay on your hopper, if you select something that is drmed, it will tell you it will remove it from your hopper. I'm note sure if the program expires on the ipad yet. I'm sure it would be similar to what it would do on the hopper. I do wish they would add the feature to transfer the show back to the hopper.

 

[lucky86]

I bet there would be a problem with two way transfer. I'm would guess the video is compressed to the point where trying to get it back to its normal state after its back on the Hopper wouldn't be possible unless it's zipped but I don't believe it works that way.

 

[Smwoodward]

I bet there would be a problem with two way transfer. I'm would guess the video is compressed to the point where trying to get it back to its normal state after its back on the Hopper wouldn't be possible unless it's zipped but I don't believe it works that way.

It should hide the original unconverted show for a period of time kinda like it hides the converted transfers file. And when you "transfer" it back it removes it from your ipad and restores the "deleted" file.

 

[lucky86]

It should hide the original unconverted show for a period of time kinda like it hides the converted transfers file. And when you "transfer" it back it removes it from your ipad and restores the "deleted" file.

But that's the whole issue with DRM. They don't want you to have a copy on the hopper and iPad, they allow you to have it on one device. Keeping the file hidden for a while would defeat the reason why HBO and max added this protection.

 

[dare2be]

But that's the whole issue with DRM. They don't want you to have a copy on the hopper and iPad, they allow you to have it on one device. Keeping the file hidden for a while would defeat the reason why HBO and max added this protection.

But that's the point. It would effectively only be accessible on one device at a time, without permanently destroying the format on either device.

 

[lucky86]

But that's the point. It would effectively only be accessible on one device at a time, without permanently destroying the format on either device.

I still think HBO/MAX would not allow that. Thinking about it, those two networks have pretty much all their content available on demand and the GO apps so if something is deleted you know where you can find it. All other content stays on the hard drive so this idea would basically just be for HBO and MAX content.

 

[Smwoodward]

I still think HBO/MAX would not allow that. Thinking about it, those two networks have pretty much all their content available on demand and the GO apps so if something is deleted you know where you can find it. All other content stays on the hard drive so this idea would basically just be for HBO and MAX content.

Doesn't Dish encrypt the hard drive in some fashion so that you can't put it in any normal computer and you be able to read the drive? If that wasn't the case, you would have two copies of the show on the hard drive before transferring, all you would need to do is pull the hard drive, copy the file over, and it would defeat the purpose anyway.

I'm just saying there should be mechanisms that can be developed that would appease both sides.

 

[lparsons21]

You would think that on the DRM'd stuff that you could transfer to the iPad and then later 'transfer' it back to the internal hard drive. That wouldn't be difficult to do and wouldn't actually require that it do a physical transfer back.

It could be made to hide the original on the internal HD after it was transferred to the iPad, and then when you 'transfer' it back, delete it from the iPad, change a flag on the hidden original file. Essentially that is what they do with the PPV that is on your internal HD now.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

The issue is the Dish Hopper with Sling actually converts the video from MPEG4 into a Sling HD stream, which is then copied to the iPad and played back with the special Transfer Program (which has a special local file Sling Player in it.)

Moving it back would involve converting that Sling HD stream back to MPEG4, which would be hard as the hopper does not have a hardware base MPEG4 encoder in it.

I still see people asking why the first generation Hopper can not do the Hopper Transfer feature and the reason is its a different CPU, that CPU has the Sling HD encoder in it needed to make this all work. Its all done in the CPU. It has NOTHING with DISH not wanting to support old Hoppers. It is NOT a software thing. If DISH could do it on the old Hoppers they would as they know this feature helps keeps customers sticky.

 

[lparsons21]

Moving it back wouldn't require anything except a flag change on a file under the scenario I described. And it would be an easy thing to implement imo.

Here's the sequence:
Hopper - convert file to iPad use. You know this creates a copy.
Hopper - transfer file to iPad, set flag on original to 'hidden'
iPad - when you want to 'transfer' back, delete file from iPad, tell Hopper to change flag on original file back to 'available'

should be doable and fairly easy to accomplish and meet the DRM requirements.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Not possible, the video is converted to a different format. Read above.

 

[lparsons21]

I did read that. Yes, the file is 'converted' in that it makes another copy of the file in a different format, the original file is still there but with a 'deleted' flag on the original. Same as on any computer you've ever worked with. A 'deleted' file is not deleted, just a flag change unless you use some 'secure erase' of some sort.

 

[rad]

BTW, as of this AM, nomad and IOS devices can stream recordings from HD DVR's without first having to transcode them and then download, but as usual only if you are on your home WiFi network that has access to nomad, no remote streaming.