So, OLN/Comcast paid $70 million for the NHL. They need to honor their current contracts, (and not black out the NHL games), and if they want to make more demands, do that when the current contracts expire.
OLN Dropped by Dish over Programming Disputes
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If the NHL has any stones at all, they'll step in soon - assuming Cablevision doesn't cave first.
Sunday, October 23, 2005
While the return of hockey north of the border has broken broadcasting records in Canada, south of the 49th parallel it's a different story, reports USA Today.
In its NHL coverage to date, the Outdoor Life Network is averaging 0.25 per cent of its 64 million households state-side. That's 52 per cent below what ESPN averaged for its first five games two years ago and with ESPN in about 90 million households, 64 per cent fewer households.
Best known for broadcasting the Tour de France, the Comcast Corp.-owned OLN has taken over broadcasting NHL games on cable from ESPN. According to figures quoted by USA Today, last Monday's Florida Panthers-New York Rangers game drew 0.1 per cent of OLN's households, finishing in an eight-way tie for the 386th-ranked TV show of the night.
Tuesday's Boston Bruins-Montreal Canadiens game saw viewership rise. That game tied for 195th place.
On a positive note, ratings for Fox Sports Net's regional NHL games are up 36 per cent.
Meanwhile, America's second-largest satellite television provider, the Dish Network said Thursday it had pulled OLN from its system after the cable channel failed to provide NHL games.
EchoStar Communications Corp. spokesman Marc Lumpkin said the network did not show games Oct. 10-11 and Monday and Tuesday as advertised. "We were not given advance notice that they would not show the programming," he said.
© The Vancouver Province 2005
While the return of hockey north of the border has broken broadcasting records in Canada, south of the 49th parallel it's a different story, reports USA Today.
In its NHL coverage to date, the Outdoor Life Network is averaging 0.25 per cent of its 64 million households state-side. That's 52 per cent below what ESPN averaged for its first five games two years ago and with ESPN in about 90 million households, 64 per cent fewer households.
Best known for broadcasting the Tour de France, the Comcast Corp.-owned OLN has taken over broadcasting NHL games on cable from ESPN. According to figures quoted by USA Today, last Monday's Florida Panthers-New York Rangers game drew 0.1 per cent of OLN's households, finishing in an eight-way tie for the 386th-ranked TV show of the night.
Tuesday's Boston Bruins-Montreal Canadiens game saw viewership rise. That game tied for 195th place.
On a positive note, ratings for Fox Sports Net's regional NHL games are up 36 per cent.
Meanwhile, America's second-largest satellite television provider, the Dish Network said Thursday it had pulled OLN from its system after the cable channel failed to provide NHL games.
EchoStar Communications Corp. spokesman Marc Lumpkin said the network did not show games Oct. 10-11 and Monday and Tuesday as advertised. "We were not given advance notice that they would not show the programming," he said.
© The Vancouver Province 2005
Are you responsible for that OGE service? Are you the point of contact at your workplace for OGE? Are you the person that orders, installs, and maintains the OGE equipment? Are you the person that orders, changes, or cancels OGE services?mdonnelly said:
Ya see. I am the one that does all of that with Dish as part of my job duties at work. Small difference from your example, ain't it?
(Let's not forget that I was a Dish sub at home since 1998, as well.)
Umm. I don't have any. That is why I didn't post any. That was my f-ing point.hancox said:
No. That honor belongs to those who post "facts" that are no such thing.hancox said:
We are ALL taking guesses here, using suppositions based on whatever small number of facts are at hand, combined with past history of Dish programming negotiations.
One known fact is that Charlie's business model in this area is one of negotiation through confrontation. I'm sure Comcast/OLN are not perfect angels either. However, history tells us that most of this dispute PROBABLY falls squarely on Charlie's lap, and that an amicable solution could have been worked out without the histrionics.
I will say for the last time now that my prediction is that OLN will end up on AT120 with NHL intact. I do not know if it will be in a day, a week, or a month. But, it will happen. And, it will no doubt be due to OLN lowering their per-subscriber fee to compensate for the increased number of subs. My guess is that OLN would much rather have the increased ad revenue, which, despite the ignorant statements to the contrary, will add up to more than the add'l subscriber fees would have. Plus, OLN will also have more viewers to satisfy the NHL when contract extension time rolls around.
Let's see if that's just some nonsense from a general nimwit, or if it's a reasonable and accurate prediction from one of the few posters here who made some sense among that rampant Charlie ass-kissing fest that's taking place. I guess only time will tell.
chiodo said:
Hmmmmm....lets see here.....if OLN wasn't blacking out NHL to Dish and others maybe they would have better numbers for USA hockey viewing.
They'd have more households, but if the percentage of viewers remained constant, it would only be about 7500 more households.
chiodo said:
Seems to me, If OLN is only providing that kind of numbers, Comcast should be paying D* to carry their programming. With those numbers, I can't see Comcast making any demands to D*, Cablevision, or anyone. I did enjoy watching Tour De France on OLN, but that's about it.
BEFORE Comcast payed the NHL $70 million for broadcast rights, they should have made sure that they were currently REACHING 40% of households. Instead they gambled and assumed D* and Cablevision would move OLN to a lower tier BECAUSE they got NHL. It's a gamble that didn't pay off so far. If anything, the NHL should sue Comcast for breach of contract.
And yet you continue to bitch about E* instead of changing providers. Masochist.GaryPen said:Are you responsible for that OGE service? Are you the point of contact at your workplace for OGE? Are you the person that orders, installs, and maintains the OGE equipment? Are you the person that orders, changes, or cancels OGE services?
Ya see. I am the one that does all of that with Dish as part of my job duties at work. Small difference from your example, ain't it?
...
Scott Greczkowski said:
Actually if they paid for OLN BEFORE NHL, and then got an NHL-less OLN, they are getting exactly what they paid for technically. I think comcast needs to honor it's contract, but honoring contracts in the year 2005 is hardly commonplace. If Comcast wants a new deal, demanding it isn't the way to go when you're dealing with Charlie Ergen, and this is why. He'll yank your channel in a heartbeat. There's a right way to go about re-negotiations, and comcast blew it.
BTW, why are we all assuming charlie is talking to comcast, and that charlie made the decision to pull OLN? Isn't he in a reduced role now? Isn't it likely that the same people behind the other channel-situations (viacom) are behind this, and likely that those person/persons are not named charlie?
Thats crazy,Purogamer said:
Dish paid for the OLN Channel, not specific shows on the channel, when you purchase a channel there is ala carte which lets the rebroadcaster (dish) pick and choose what shows air and don't air.
It was OLN's decission to add the NHL to OLN, DIsh had nothing to do with that decission and could not even say YES we want you to carry the NHL or no we don't you to carry it. OLN (Comcast) made that choice.
I am sure they (Dish) were excited when they heard the news that NHL was coming to the channel. Imagine their surprise when the adveritsed games were not being shown without warning by OLN just because OLN wanted more money for their channel to cover the costs of the NHL.
Comcast should honor its contract with Dish and provide OLN with all of the scheduled OLN programming, not OLN lite. When contract time comes they should then put the NHL portion of the package on the table.
Again I say that Charlie did the right thing.
I agree with Scott, it's not DISH's fault that OLN decided to pick up NHL.
Imagine if ESPN did the same thing with college football or the NFL games
Imagine if ESPN did the same thing with college football or the NFL games
What if SciFi blocked their Friday night originals after promoting them repeatedly throughout the week. Don't you think the complaint volume alone your CSRs would face week after week would be enough that you'd rather remove the channel entirely?
This has nothing to do with OLN getting more eyeballs for the benefit of the NHL - or even to improve their advertising revenue. If they could get the 13% more E* subscribers they are looking for, that's in increase of 1,482,000 subs. But with the NHL ratings of .25 percent, that will yield less than 4000 more viewers - insignificant for advertising revenue.
This is all about the carriage fees, and strong-arming as many subscribers as possible using Mickey Mouse tactics instead of offering compelling content.
This has nothing to do with OLN getting more eyeballs for the benefit of the NHL - or even to improve their advertising revenue. If they could get the 13% more E* subscribers they are looking for, that's in increase of 1,482,000 subs. But with the NHL ratings of .25 percent, that will yield less than 4000 more viewers - insignificant for advertising revenue.
This is all about the carriage fees, and strong-arming as many subscribers as possible using Mickey Mouse tactics instead of offering compelling content.
Hey here's a solution to the whole problem. Since it seems that AT180 subs don't mind rate increases and have extra money to burn, how about dropping OLN to AT120 and charge AT180 subs an extra 5 - 6 bucks a month rate increase to cover the costs. Problem solved.
At home, I did change. You knew that. (How easy it is to ignore stuff when it doesn't fit your argument.)mdonnelly said:And yet you continue to bitch about E* instead of changing providers. Masochist.
As for the work account, unfortunately, it would be too difficult to change for a variety of technical and administrative reasons, all related to cost. Also, we only use 311's for the most part, and only utilize the most rudementary programming, such as HNN, CNBC, and Bloomberg. So, not really much reason to change that would justify the cost. (we also have a DirecTV account in one of our buildings, that would also be too difficult to change. Personally, I'd like to standardize on one provider.)
I bitch where bitching is due, whether it's Charlie's hissy-fit style of contract negotiation, Dish's consistently poor engineering design and maintenance of their receivers, or their horribly trained CSR's.
OTOH, they do have some very positive attributes. My kudos to the guy responsible for the channel assignments. Dish has, by far, the most logical channel assignments of any TV provider I have experienced. I can never understand why all DBS and Cable providers don't do that. They've also finally added some requested channels recently to AT120. Very nice.
I look forward to the day I switch back to Dish programming. But, it will only happen when (and IF) SBC releases the HomeZone. I'm not putting another POS Dish DVR in my home.
Why not? Get the disenfranchised while you can. Meanwhile, ...
If Comcast wants to offer dish a more favorable deal, they will. Until then, they'll pay the price. I'd like to see the hockey, but I'm not willing to bow down to the almighty cable cartel in the process.
Where do you get that notion? I have 180, but I don't have unlimited funds. Nor necessarily do others on 180. Charlie's right to watch out for the customer and get what he contracted to get, which we all were led to believe was OLN's main channel with the NHL without conditions. Comcast wasn't delivering, therefore, this dispute.bpickell said:
If Comcast wants to offer dish a more favorable deal, they will. Until then, they'll pay the price. I'd like to see the hockey, but I'm not willing to bow down to the almighty cable cartel in the process.
sorry, I was being a little fasecious when I said that. I know not everyone has unlimited funds. It just seems that everyone who likes to watch bull riding 24 hours a day wants to keep their channel and are threatening to leave E*, if they don't keep it.
Oh wait I better include bicycle riding in June, for those other ten people out there that like good programming to fall asleep to.
Well, if they want to keep it let them pay for it. Or better yet put it on the everything pak and charge an extra 30 bucks a month... LOL. Whats another 30 bucks when you are already paying out the nose anyway. LOL. by the way that's another joke.
Oh wait I better include bicycle riding in June, for those other ten people out there that like good programming to fall asleep to.
Well, if they want to keep it let them pay for it. Or better yet put it on the everything pak and charge an extra 30 bucks a month... LOL. Whats another 30 bucks when you are already paying out the nose anyway. LOL. by the way that's another joke.
I'm not trying to take cheap shots at anyone, I just can't believe what a big deal people are making out of losing one lousy channel. And I do actually mean lousy. It would be different if it was a main stream channel like I don't know ESPN or something like that. And I know not everybody watches ESPN either. But I can take a pretty good stab and say that at least a thousand percent more people watch ESPN. I don't but a lot of people do.
I am behind Charlie in his stance on OLN. I am a very big hockey fan and I know I will miss at least 7 Penguin games, plus any other game that I may want to watch because of his stance.
Hockey was not on the table when the OLN deal was signed. We were led to believe that we would see the NHL broadcasts on OLN when the hockey deal was signed. Now that OLN has more 'desirable' programming, they want to change the conditions of the contract. I view that as typical Comcast. I dropped them for Dish several years ago and have never looked back.
We have been 'Comcasted'.
Hockey was not on the table when the OLN deal was signed. We were led to believe that we would see the NHL broadcasts on OLN when the hockey deal was signed. Now that OLN has more 'desirable' programming, they want to change the conditions of the contract. I view that as typical Comcast. I dropped them for Dish several years ago and have never looked back.
We have been 'Comcasted'.
