New/Updated review of the big 6 OTT options

[harshness]

Explain, I dropped Dish 6 years ago. You can't skip commercials?

It isn't that you can't skip them but that the Autohop feature may take several days to enable. Fox and CBS are both seven days (as opposed to the original overnight enabling).

Streaming services were the first to disable ad-skipping and they've got nowhere to go but down to support the infrastructure required. One pretty much has to assume that the affiliate stations aren't going to want to financially support the network's online streaming efforts as their advertisers know that the stations (and any associated ad inserts) are being bypassed.

 

[Yespage]

Follow the historical progression of DISH's Autohop feature.

That was an automated commercial skipper which was unprecedented in the industry.

 

[harshness]

That was an automated commercial skipper which was unprecedented in the industry.

Nonetheless, what happened to it is a clear indicator about how the content owners feel about such things.

Disallowing commercial skipping was unprecedented until the networks started streaming their own content.

 

[spencer7779]

Two things that could really hurt OTT
Blocking Fast fowarding
Location Issues.

 

[harshness]

Two things that could really hurt OTT
Blocking Fast fowarding
Location Issues.

I'd add getting live content (not just sports) in a timely fashion.

What do you mean by "location issues"? Is this about getting content not intended for you or before the appropriate time?

 

[Zookster]

I'd add getting live content (not just sports) in a timely fashion.

What do you mean by "location issues"? Is this about getting content not intended for you or before the appropriate time?

Getting live streams from the various linear cable channels and major networks is actually the main function and purpose of the OTT live TV skinny bundles. The only problem in this regard is when the odd show (usually one in syndication during the day or evening - not a prime time show or major sporting event) gets blocked on whatever service you have because necessary agreements weren't in place.

I had a weird thing happen where after watching a live stream of the NFL game on my CBS affiliate using Playstation Vue, the subsequent sports post-game wrap up show produced by my affiliate's local news department got blacked out. But then the regular 5 p.m. local news broadcast immediately after wasn't blacked out (it never is). These sorts of things I see as a random oversight and not a product of the live TV service not willing to pay some extra fee. The local station would have no reason to have their own post-game highlight show blacked out when no other local news programs are affected. And I don't think it's an NFL licensing thing either, since the news program shows plenty of game highlights as well -- probably just as many but with less analysis and talk.

 

[spencer7779]

I'd add getting live content (not just sports) in a timely fashion.

What do you mean by "location issues"? Is this about getting content not intended for you or before the appropriate time?

Location is based on your ip address, which can change. Many people have issues losing or getting the wrong locals

 

[harshness]

Location is based on your ip address, which can change. Many people have issues losing or getting the wrong locals

IP addresses change periodically, but the geolocation of the IP address pool from where you're addresses come is usually very consistent. Business ISPs are a different story but most of those who serve residential customers can place you within a few miles.

 

[ncted]

IP addresses change periodically, but the geolocation of the IP address pool from where you're addresses come is usually very consistent.

While your public IP might not change very often, that doesn't mean the geolocation data is very good. The purveyors of geolocation databases would like everyone to think so, but in my own experience with geofencing applications, we found the best of them to be no more than 80% accurate for residential IPs, and less than that for business IPs. The consolidation of large ISPs hasn't helped either. This is an interesting read:

How accurate is IP-based Geolocation Lookup?

It was much easier to ensure accuracy with mobile devices by using GPS data, but users often did not want to allow our apps to know their location, even if that location was never shared back to our servers.

 

[harshness]

While your public IP might not change very often, that doesn't mean the geolocation data is very good.

Just because someone did some research doesn't mean that geolocation universally isn't any good.

How close does iplocation.net come to where you're located? All of mine are within nine nautical miles.

Nine miles is probably close enough to figure out what one's TV market is (or perhaps more importantly for the providers, isn't).

Since the streaming services don't serve businesses, their geolocation error is a moot point.

 

[ncted]

Just because someone did some research doesn't mean that geolocation universally isn't any good.

How close does iplocation.net come to where you're located? All of mine are within nine nautical miles.

Nine miles is probably close enough to figure out what one's TV market is (or perhaps more importantly for the providers, isn't).

Since the streaming services don't serve businesses, their geolocation error is a moot point.

If you read closely, I wrote it wasn't "very good," not that is wasn't any good.

Believe what you like, but IMHO based on hands-on experience as well as published data, ip-based geolocation is marginally accurate at best. It roughly meets the 80% rule, so "good enough." Good enough ? very good. That's my point.

Of the 5 databases they checked for my home IP, 2 were within 5 miles, 1 was within 15 miles, and 2 were within 25 miles. They all at least got the state right, but two of them got my MSA wrong. Admittedly, all 5 got my DMA correct.

Before I got Fiber, I had Frontier. In my testing for our geofenced applications at that time, all the databases we tried thought my IP was roughly 250 miles away in the NC mountains. I had to VPN in to use the apps.

So, people don't stream OTT services while at work? I'll be sure to tell the guy who sits in the cube next to me who watches premier league soccer on Sling all the time.

 

[navychop]

Frontier is putting in coax throughout the campground where we own a site. I called, trying to get an estimated date of availability, and current pricing. It looks like their lowest tier of Internet only pricing is $20. I might pay that.

But I had to go thru extensive Q&A with their automated system before finally getting a human, who had no idea of when or if or how much. She couldn’t understand that their trucks were wiring the place. She transferred me to some other section, which started over with those automated questions.

I’ll wait. Maybe someone at Frontier will wake up and say “HEY, maybe we ought to actually OFFER service to those folks where we put in the cables!”

 

[Bobby]

Frontier is putting in coax throughout the campground where we own a site. I called, trying to get an estimated date of availability, and current pricing. It looks like their lowest tier of Internet only pricing is $20. I might pay that.

But I had to go thru extensive Q&A with their automated system before finally getting a human, who had no idea of when or if or how much. She couldn’t understand that their trucks were wiring the place. She transferred me to some other section, which started over with those automated questions.

I’ll wait. Maybe someone at Frontier will wake up and say “HEY, maybe we ought to actually OFFER service to those folks where we put in the cables!”

Probably, just like Dish CSRs, they have no idea that service is available until it is actually available.

 

[ncted]

Frontier is putting in coax throughout the campground where we own a site. I called, trying to get an estimated date of availability, and current pricing. It looks like their lowest tier of Internet only pricing is $20. I might pay that.

But I had to go thru extensive Q&A with their automated system before finally getting a human, who had no idea of when or if or how much. She couldn’t understand that their trucks were wiring the place. She transferred me to some other section, which started over with those automated questions.

I’ll wait. Maybe someone at Frontier will wake up and say “HEY, maybe we ought to actually OFFER service to those folks where we put in the cables!”

This is typical of most ISP when it comes to new service. When I got Frontier vDSL2 service, I had to call a local business account manager I knew to actually put the residential order in because the residential CSRs didn't have the updated database. Just be patient, and you will eventually get what you want.

 

[harshness]

While geolocation isn't perfect, it works well enough for both of us. Specific examples are better than samples of unknown background.

So, people don't stream OTT services while at work? I'll be sure to tell the guy who sits in the cube next to me who watches premier league soccer on Sling all the time.

I didn't say that individuals didn't stream at work. I said that streaming services don't offer their product to businesses.

It probably wouldn't be the worst thing if people who were "on the clock" were denied access to "live" sporting events.

You should endeavor to distinguish between SlingTV and using a Slingbox. In either case, EPL isn't something that is normally subject to territorial viewing restrictions in the US (although it is absolutely not to be "performed" publicly).

 

[harshness]

Probably, just like Dish CSRs, they have no idea that service is available until it is actually available.

Do you believe that anyone should be promising something like TV or Internet service that isn't available?

 

[navychop]

Taking advance orders ahead of release date is common.

 

[ncted]

While geolocation isn't perfect, it works well enough for both of us. Specific examples are better than samples of unknown background.I didn't say that individuals didn't stream at work. I said that streaming services don't offer their product to businesses.

It probably wouldn't be the worst thing if people who were "on the clock" were denied access to "live" sporting events.

You should endeavor to distinguish between SlingTV and using a Slingbox. In either case, EPL isn't something that is normally subject to territorial viewing restrictions in the US (although it is absolutely not to be "performed" publicly).

The specific example I can provide is, for our geofenced news applications, we got complaints from roughly 22% of readers that they could not access the content while being physically located in an allowed DMA. The CSR load was crazy. We allowed access to about 30 DMAs in the US. If you were in-market, you could access the content of any of the media outlets in our network for free (ad-supported). If you were out-of-market, you hit the paywall after a couple of page views . We had tens of thousands of complaints in the first week alone. This was on Akamai's geolocation service, which, at least as of a year ago, was still considered one of the best. Even they admitted off the record that it was only 80% accurate down to the DMA-level. It was so bad, we eventually decided we had to scrap the whole geofencing paywall platform and just stick more ads on pages views by devices which were "outside the fence."

Is there a better technology solution for this problem? None that I know of. This requires a business solution. Content licensing has not kept up with the technology unfortunately.

 

[ncted]

Taking advance orders ahead of release date is common.

Are you familiar with Frontier? This comment makes me think probably not. They are not known for having their $pit together.

 

[Bobby]

Taking advance orders ahead of release date is common.

Not with Dish and, obviously, other providers...