According to the customer service manager (see a prior post of mine from yesterday), Voom views the newly added channels as equal to HBO, Showtime, etc. Now, this is probably not truly the case (or so logic would dictate), but they certainly should not have management stating this so blatantly, as they really just end up looking a tad foolish. Really, if this was planned for the future they *should* be telling customers that a new tier-level is coming, so sit tight. But nope, they just are stating that as far as they are concerned, there is no difference between Discovery Kids and HBO. So again, logic would seem to indicate this is a short-term situation, but the only "official" info available to me from the company is that this is not the case. In fact, I was specifically told that *any* new channel may now be viewed this way and so be part of the VaVaVoom package.
New Channels Added: - Discoveries & Fox Movie
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kfried001 said:
lol if voom takes that kinda approach they might as well shut down shop at end of the month they will NEVER surive being a niche market though you might like for them to become one will not happen and you will be bacl to E of D** just like everyone else if they do take this kinda approach.
kfried001 said:
Thank you. Though generally there are not many women on A/V or Sat *forums*, you may be surprised to find out a lot of women actually *do* care who their provider is, and the quality of both the content and PQ. At least the ones I know.
Apple computer used this approach. They produced higher priced computers compared to all the Windows computers to compensate for lack of market share and it worked.Nayl said:
I agree, it would probably not work in the DBS broadcast market with E* and D* there, but if the HD content were compelling enough and they carried every SD channel and every HD channel I would buy in.
There is going to be help soon. RCA is coming with a $300 line of HD tv's and the sooner ppl see HD and can afford it, the quicker the process will go. If VOOM can hang on, the future will catch up to them.
I don't think others charge alot for HD...they just don't have as much as Voom!!!kfried001 said:
Voom charges a medium fee for SD? What does this mean?
Well I think it matters because Voom hasn't done anything to promote any of the new channels...If in fact having more "cable favorites" is what is needed to attract more subs...THEN VOOM SAY SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!! Let people know that Voom is a good option to others plus you get a whole lot more HD and better PQ...kfried001 said:
kfried001 said:
Cannot compare Apple to Voom back then the computer market was untapped there was not already two powerhouses that had the market,not to mention computers are globally used while Voom is U.S based.I would guess 90% of the people who wanted or wanted a satellite sytem already have one from E or D** Voom wants to take those customers away to do that they have to be aggresive in showing customers they are a better service have more to offer at almost as a affordable rate as the service they are already with.Voom wins the Hd part of that hands down but HDTV as others have said has not taken off as quickly as orginally thought.
To compensate and to stay alive until it does become more mainstream Voom has to add the sd channels in the other 2 companies have and do it at a price thats as good as there competitors by them adding those 6 channels that are what I look at as basic channels into a premium sub package they are not giving people much reason to stay with them and 0 reason for someone to leave E or D**.
And Finally. . .
Here in las vegas, Walmart is offering a Cheap Wireless Cable for 25-30 month, you get a short list of stations including 1 HBO, if all you want is cheap cable, that might be an option, or even better, now that you have an OTA antennae you can just buy a digital converter and have Free TV, many of our OTA channels are running more than one feed, PBS is even running different content on their different feeds, so it would be like having 13 channels, not just the 5 majors.
If cheap tv is what you want, then Voom might not be your best option.
Taking the Vegas aspect a little further, I for one will not go to a buffet again, unless it is kicking and screaming. I don't need and endless selection of mediocre to poor foods, give me a menu from a good restaurant that is limited to a few really good meals and I'll be much happier. For those times the I really want something different I'll go to blockbuster and rent UFC 43.
How many people claim to NEED more option, but then choose to eat at McDonalds? If you only watch 12 channels, why not just choose 12 that are available and watch those instead of whinin about one or two that are not.
I'm certainly not suggesting that collective bargaining is bad, or that we shouldn't try to get the most for what we pay, but dealing with Voom directly would be more productive than making a constant nagging noise on this site.
I am certain that as voom changes, it will not change to suit my better, it will change to be more profitable, and get as much money out of each sub as it can. Voom can't expect to add to their bottom line by holding a few sd standard channels hostage, the increase in VAVA subs will not noticably increase for those channels, but, we'd all be far more pissed, if they were offered as part of basic voom and then removed to a higher tier.
Here in las vegas, Walmart is offering a Cheap Wireless Cable for 25-30 month, you get a short list of stations including 1 HBO, if all you want is cheap cable, that might be an option, or even better, now that you have an OTA antennae you can just buy a digital converter and have Free TV, many of our OTA channels are running more than one feed, PBS is even running different content on their different feeds, so it would be like having 13 channels, not just the 5 majors.
If cheap tv is what you want, then Voom might not be your best option.
Taking the Vegas aspect a little further, I for one will not go to a buffet again, unless it is kicking and screaming. I don't need and endless selection of mediocre to poor foods, give me a menu from a good restaurant that is limited to a few really good meals and I'll be much happier. For those times the I really want something different I'll go to blockbuster and rent UFC 43.
How many people claim to NEED more option, but then choose to eat at McDonalds? If you only watch 12 channels, why not just choose 12 that are available and watch those instead of whinin about one or two that are not.
I'm certainly not suggesting that collective bargaining is bad, or that we shouldn't try to get the most for what we pay, but dealing with Voom directly would be more productive than making a constant nagging noise on this site.
I am certain that as voom changes, it will not change to suit my better, it will change to be more profitable, and get as much money out of each sub as it can. Voom can't expect to add to their bottom line by holding a few sd standard channels hostage, the increase in VAVA subs will not noticably increase for those channels, but, we'd all be far more pissed, if they were offered as part of basic voom and then removed to a higher tier.
Point that alot are overlooking is if Voom does not draw in new customers there will be no voom what part of that do you guys not understand? It's not about whining over a few channels.
I like Voom if all it would take would be for me to sub to Va Va Voom for them to stay open I would call and do it right now but the big picture of it is new customers are gonna look at what they have to offer see alot of those channels being in the higher bracket and say no way,They see a lack of channels they cannot get on Voom that they can were they already have a sub,they will see no National feeds for Nbc,Abc,Fox.
Some of you better wake up and realize for Voom to survive that they have to cater to regular joes as much as alot of you self proclaimed I can afford everything and anything no matter the price and if you do not like it go elsehwhere.
I like Voom if all it would take would be for me to sub to Va Va Voom for them to stay open I would call and do it right now but the big picture of it is new customers are gonna look at what they have to offer see alot of those channels being in the higher bracket and say no way,They see a lack of channels they cannot get on Voom that they can were they already have a sub,they will see no National feeds for Nbc,Abc,Fox.
Some of you better wake up and realize for Voom to survive that they have to cater to regular joes as much as alot of you self proclaimed I can afford everything and anything no matter the price and if you do not like it go elsehwhere.
I don't necessarily agree with that. I think the Voom folks monitor these forums to get a general idea of what folks are thinking. As far as dealing with Voom directly, I really doubt that telling a CSR anything does anything at all. Perhaps if one actually knew a higher-up... but, again, I think they have people to monitor these forums.67Yv8t said:
I agree with the first part of this sentence, but not the second. I think it would have been much better to be shown the channels as a free preview and then have them taken away if Voom announced that it was a free preview and these channels will become a package on a later date. That would also have served the purpose of letting people who have never heard of these channels, let alone seen them, check 'em out for a while and see if they're something they may be interested in paying extra for.67Yv8t said:
By the way, the simple act of expressing displeasure over something being done, or how that thing was done, is not in and of itself "whining". If it were, you would have to consider yourself one of the leaders of the whiners, would you not? For who whines about the whining more than you? Hell, it's your signature.
I love apple and would never go back to PC, but I think that one of the reason Apple even made it was the IPOD. People want cutting edge technology at an affordable price. Voom needs it's own "Ipod" by offering a package that everyone can afford...I think an all HD package at a reasonable price that people can add to their existing programming is the key to success.
Originally I was against this idea, but the more I think about it. If they offered a HD only package at say around 54.99 or something, I think your right. It would likely be received well and would open up the door to complete switchovers later on.
B.Greenway said:
I'm confused by the price you suggest -- it's more than I pay now. Unless you mean the HD versions of the premium channels (HBO-HD, SHO-HD, STARZ-HD, Military-HD, etc.), too. But I don't think they'll separate the HD premiums from the pack. In other words I don't think you can get HBO-HD from anywhere without also getting all the other HBO's, can you?
Yeah, all the HD (only) they have to offer. And yeah I know that means tacking on the SD premiums as well. But not the other run of the mill SD channels to boot.
The price is likely too low, but any package that offers all of the HD Voom has available, but not redundant SD channels might be attractive to those with D,E or cable as a add on service.
The price is likely too low, but any package that offers all of the HD Voom has available, but not redundant SD channels might be attractive to those with D,E or cable as a add on service.
Nayl said:
I can't agree more. Throughout this whole thread, people are whining about which package these new channels were placed. First of all, you all have pretty expensive toys in your house and frankly I can't believe your not already subscribed to Va Va Voom. Most of you are missing the bigger picture and may not have any channels to bitch about in a couple of weeks, God forbid.
I personally waited to get Voom because of one thing, National Network broadcasts. I finally couldn't take it anymore and got Voom at Christmas and just love the hell out of it. I have spent thousands trying to receive local HD signals without much success and I don't live far from the city (hill problem). What Voom needs to do if it survives is get rid of the redundant programming and add Network Feeds. After reading through this whole forum, that may be a problem.
Let's all hope we don't have a bad April fool's joke on us because going back to just a couple of HD channels would really hurt and besides, the side of my house is starting to look like a cable company and I don't need another dish.
ptech said:
Well, believe it. I'm not actually interested in HBO or Showtime but *am* interested in some of the added Discovery network channels, but am not going to upgrade to the VaVaVoom package to receive them.
Different topic, and most of us on the forum are well aware of the fact that the service may or may not be around shortly.
......
Let's all hope we don't have a bad April fool's joke on us because going back to just a couple of HD channels would really hurt and besides, the side of my house is starting to look like a cable company and I don't need another dish.
Yes, I rather Voom stick around too, but at the same time I have every right to express my dissatisfaction at the current channel bundling.
Voom Ipod??
If voom is going to be a delivery provider Voom can't compete being the accessory service, they have to be the core service. Although I love HD, I don't think HDNEWS satisfy my need for news, And there are many valuable channels on SD. Although I may not watch many, I can't call them bad. Any successful delivery company has to be broad in its offerings. Other wise it is too easily replaced. But if Voom can create enough Locks to the customer, then there are no other choices.
Some of you have hinted at the idea that Voom should offer it's package of exclusive, as a separate package. Is that so you can add those channels to other services that you now have? if so, that would be counter productive for Voom. Why should they encourage you to continue paying for Cable or other Satellite service from someone other than Voom.
This means voom would get only a small portion of your entertainment dollar. The most successful businesses try to get a bigger portion of your dollars in their category.
The exact reason for PAy per view, "instead of you going to blockhustler and renting a movie, why not allow us through our 'already paid for system', feed that movie to you. Allowing you the convenience of not upsetting your couch roots, and allowing us a cool $5.00 with no sweat." A Win Win for everyone.
A solely pay per view provider company would not be able to be profitable if is was required to provide the infrastructure to feed movies. It has to do it over already installed systems so that the revenue goes mostly to profit.
Not even considering the cost of providing the service. . . For each house Vooms cost is pretty constant. so to be profitable they need to increase use/revenue of that capital cost, as in the 3 boxes, dish, and technicians on premise. Not know the actual numbers, I'm just going to throw out that is costs $800 per house under the current offers. And if they offered their HD only package (assuming distributon costs are covered by increaased number of subs) how long would it take to recover the cost of the equipment at $20 bucks a month selling just their voom exclusives? over 3 years! then they start showing a profit on your house. If they get you for $80 a month, because you decide to give up E* and pay for the Vava package they recover in less than 1 year.
Of course voom has to pay licensing for the added premium channels, just as they do for the basic channels, so it is not all profit but what ever the cost and whatevert he margin, higher invoice prices for the same hard cost is what will make Voom successful. If you aren't charging enough to be profitable you can't make it up on volume.
If voom became just an accessory service, It would be expendible. If you are feeling a little short in cash this week, would you go without the meal or go without the dessert, at a restaurant? If you said dessert, that is only becasue you feel that dessert is novel, but when push comes to shove you'll give up dessert more often. How many successful "Premium desserts only" restaurants do you have in your neighborhood?
Voom has to provide enough diversity to allow most people to consider it "complete enough" for "Joe and Jane Single Source". And become the steak and potatoes of their entertainment needs. then of they add dessert, like pay perview, or "packages" of premium or specialized channels, they will be more profitable.
IF voom is no longer a service provide and becomes a service, then specialization is to it's advantage. Discovery is all of the quasi educational channels and MTV is all the music channels, and ESPN. . . Squash the competition allow no diversity, therefore no competition on contracts with Delivery Companies that diversify.
For those of you that are ready to mention Baskin and Robbins, Carvel, Coldstone or another Ice cream company to the "desserts only" question: First that's not a premium dessert. . . but Those are actually more like HBO and Cinemax, service providers that specialize in a certain type of product, and by offering through many easy to access locations, becomes readily available to the public. Just like HBO is on most, if not all, Cable and non-cable TV providers. You don't buy because of the restaurant you buy because of the product and because it is convenient.
If voom is going to be a delivery provider Voom can't compete being the accessory service, they have to be the core service. Although I love HD, I don't think HDNEWS satisfy my need for news, And there are many valuable channels on SD. Although I may not watch many, I can't call them bad. Any successful delivery company has to be broad in its offerings. Other wise it is too easily replaced. But if Voom can create enough Locks to the customer, then there are no other choices.
Some of you have hinted at the idea that Voom should offer it's package of exclusive, as a separate package. Is that so you can add those channels to other services that you now have? if so, that would be counter productive for Voom. Why should they encourage you to continue paying for Cable or other Satellite service from someone other than Voom.
This means voom would get only a small portion of your entertainment dollar. The most successful businesses try to get a bigger portion of your dollars in their category.
The exact reason for PAy per view, "instead of you going to blockhustler and renting a movie, why not allow us through our 'already paid for system', feed that movie to you. Allowing you the convenience of not upsetting your couch roots, and allowing us a cool $5.00 with no sweat." A Win Win for everyone.
A solely pay per view provider company would not be able to be profitable if is was required to provide the infrastructure to feed movies. It has to do it over already installed systems so that the revenue goes mostly to profit.
Not even considering the cost of providing the service. . . For each house Vooms cost is pretty constant. so to be profitable they need to increase use/revenue of that capital cost, as in the 3 boxes, dish, and technicians on premise. Not know the actual numbers, I'm just going to throw out that is costs $800 per house under the current offers. And if they offered their HD only package (assuming distributon costs are covered by increaased number of subs) how long would it take to recover the cost of the equipment at $20 bucks a month selling just their voom exclusives? over 3 years! then they start showing a profit on your house. If they get you for $80 a month, because you decide to give up E* and pay for the Vava package they recover in less than 1 year.
Of course voom has to pay licensing for the added premium channels, just as they do for the basic channels, so it is not all profit but what ever the cost and whatevert he margin, higher invoice prices for the same hard cost is what will make Voom successful. If you aren't charging enough to be profitable you can't make it up on volume.
If voom became just an accessory service, It would be expendible. If you are feeling a little short in cash this week, would you go without the meal or go without the dessert, at a restaurant? If you said dessert, that is only becasue you feel that dessert is novel, but when push comes to shove you'll give up dessert more often. How many successful "Premium desserts only" restaurants do you have in your neighborhood?
Voom has to provide enough diversity to allow most people to consider it "complete enough" for "Joe and Jane Single Source". And become the steak and potatoes of their entertainment needs. then of they add dessert, like pay perview, or "packages" of premium or specialized channels, they will be more profitable.
IF voom is no longer a service provide and becomes a service, then specialization is to it's advantage. Discovery is all of the quasi educational channels and MTV is all the music channels, and ESPN. . . Squash the competition allow no diversity, therefore no competition on contracts with Delivery Companies that diversify.
For those of you that are ready to mention Baskin and Robbins, Carvel, Coldstone or another Ice cream company to the "desserts only" question: First that's not a premium dessert. . . but Those are actually more like HBO and Cinemax, service providers that specialize in a certain type of product, and by offering through many easy to access locations, becomes readily available to the public. Just like HBO is on most, if not all, Cable and non-cable TV providers. You don't buy because of the restaurant you buy because of the product and because it is convenient.
ptech said:
I thought I covered this, but apparently not to some people's satisfaction. At what point did valid consumer complaints being expressed become whining? Is it because to state "whining" will evoke an emotional response from those who see a problem with the service? Is it the hope that the emotional response will lead to a non-logical reply, allowing you to publicly and/or privately dismiss their completely valid complaints based on the fact that they have then proven their lack of reasoning in that one non-logical reply? There must be something like this in play, because I really don't see whining going on. I do see complaints that the company has decided (and if you read my posts, you will see the one re. my phone conversation with a supervisor) that these newly added commercial SD channels are equal to the premium movie channels (HBO, etc) in Voom's opinion. At least to-date, that is the official line from Voom given the fact that supervisors are relating exactly this in these words to customers (or at the very least, directly to me). Not only does this not really make sense and it opens the door for *any* channel to be viewed this way, but could have a pretty decent impact on the ability for Voom to get new customers once they see this (as has already been pointed out).
67Yv8t said:
I do completely agree that voicing this complaint here doesn't accomplish anything (unless Voom employees who can make a difference do happen to read this forum, which unlike some, I am not convinced is the case). But then again, what is the point of *any* post on these forums unless it relates to specific assistance an individual user needs (or the occasional compilation of specific bits of info by certain individuals that is then transmitted to Voom to assist them with something)? Most of the information released here can be found in other ways, so it is not even needed for that reason. You've made a very good argument for the fact that the forum (and many other similar forums) really isn't actually *needed* for much. The other option is - as conversation probably *will* continue on this forum as it has in the past - that if valid complaints being discussed bother you so much, then maybe you should move on to something else (perhaps another thread where you won't be annoyed). What else did you expect to see in this thread, at least at this stage? New information about the already established newly-added channels (as the thread's subject indicates)? Not much new info could come out about them, really. They are what they are. I suspect it is to see how the complaints are being presented, yet you see no point to them so why bother and waste your time? And yes, speaking with customer service accomplishes a big fat zilch. So unless someone can provide customers with someone to talk to within Voom at the corporate level, then I imagine this is just as useful in creating change as speaking with a CSR (ie. it won't ultimately accomplish much of anything).
ptech said:
Some companies actually listen to their customers.
Wouldn't it be funny if the "whinners" were to be the cause of Voom moving the new channels to the basic line-up? The "whinners" are one of the prime motivators of change, don't discount their power.
It is also ironic to hear the "whinning" about the "whinners".
I do not have expensive toys. I am a regular working class guy who tries to make ends meet and drives a 13 year old car. I ordered Voom because it was just a few bucks more than my cable bill, plus I got all the hd channels. I ordered VaVaVoom a couple of months ago when it seemed like Voom might be done, but I will drop it soon because I cannot justify the extra cost. Whether Voom will be here in a couple of weeks is a different subject. Sooner or later, Voom will either end or not end.
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