NBA 2008-09 Season

[Paul Wozniak]

Maurice cheeks was canned by Philadelphia on Saturday, and Reggie Theuss gets sacked yesterday by the Kings. That brings the total to 6 coaches axed, and it isn't even Christmas yet! 20% of the head coaches of the NBA gone! This has to be some kind of record. Why is everybody panicking? The only reason I can propose is that a slow economy and slow starts by these teams are killing them at the box office.

 

[SabresRule]

The reason these coaches are getting fired is because the teams STINK!

Look at the records of these teams.

 

[HD MM]

My favorite stat in Basketball has to be the "DIFF". I love how ESPN keeps note of it in their standings found here.......

[ame="http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/standings"]Moved Permanently[/ame]

It's basically the difference between average points for and the average points against a team. This stat is a great showing of how good your combined offense and defense is.

Right now, the Cavaliers are leading the league in the "DIFF" category with a +12.7.

Speaking of the Cavs........ Gawd, this 3 day layoff seems like forever! Although this is probably good for our injured guys to heel (Z and Boobie), I can't wait until my Wine & Gold take the floor again tomorrow against the T-Wolves!!!

 

[SabresRule]

I can't wait until my Wine & Gold take the floor again tomorrow against the T-Wolves!!!

T-Wolves? With McHale as coach?

As far as I'm concerned, the Cavs can play the entire game blindfolded and STILL win by 20 points!

 

[HD MM]

T-Wolves? With McHale as coach?

As far as I'm concerned, the Cavs can play the entire game blindfolded and STILL win by 20 points!

This team can't take any games for granted. We are still without 2 key players in Z and Boobie.

 

[HD MM]

Shawn Marion to Cavs Rumors....

I moved a question and response from another thread from Sabres in relation to the Marion to Cavs trade talk. See below for my thoughts....

14. HD MM, have you heard that your Cavs are considering trading big-haired Anderson Varejao and Wally Sczerbiak for Shawn Marion? If you have, do you like the idea?

Here's a link:

Marion could be defensive edge for Cavs - NBA - Yahoo! Sports

This is the first I've heard about this. Marion is a small forward though, right? Ahem, we already have a starting small forward by the name of LeBron. Would Marion come off the bench or be converted to power forward over Ben Wallace?

ANY move at this point would make me nervous, no matter how good it looks on paper. This team has such great chemistry right now, I wouldn't want to jeopardize it.

More on this.........

From Cleveland's own Cavaliers Beat Writer.......

“You never say never in the NBA; perhaps circumstances will change. But as of right now the Cavs and Heat are not in trade talks concerning Marion and Varejao. This is from multiple team sources.

What the Cavs need is another big man and Marion isn’t a big man and Varejao is. So if they made such a deal they’d be in worse shape. Which is why I said before, it doesn’t make much sense.

Also, if the Cavs are going to use Wally Szczerbiak’s contract they are going to go for a home run. This next trade very well may be the most important in Cavs history. So it has to be just right. I will write about this a lot more in the coming weeks, just know that right now this rumor isn’t true.”

Marion is hardly old. He’s only 30 years old. Realistically, he should still have plenty left in the tank. But Marion’s skills and output have been trending downward over the last few seasons. Marion peaked in the 2005-06 season with a Player Efficiency Rating of 23.66. His PER has gone down every year since. Down to 20.87 the next season, 19.10 in 2007-08, and down to a barely above average level of 15.92 this year. His scoring has been going down. He was scoring 21.8 points per game in that 2005-06 season. The following year he was down to 17.5 ppg, last year he scored 15.4 ppg, and this year is scoring his lowest points since his rookie season, at 12.4 ppg. His FG% has gone down every season since 2005-06. He’s only a career 33.9% shooter from three-point range. He’s never been a player to give you any assists whatsoever. He averages 2.0 assists per game for his career, and his career high is only 2.7 apg.

The Cavaliers are already paper thin at PF and C, especially with Zydrunas Ilgauskas already missing time with a sprained ankle. Removing Varejao and adding Marion doesn’t really fix that problem for Cleveland.

The Cavaliers are 20-4 right now with a 6 game lead in the Central Division. They are 1st in the NBA in offensive efficiency and 2nd in defensive efficiency. They’re 5th in points per game and 1st in points against per game. They are 4th in FG% and they are 2nd in opponents FG%. Team chemistry is at an all time high. There’s no doubt they are not at Boston’s level yet, and there’s no doubt Danny Ferry will be looking at all options regarding Wally Szczerbiak's VERY attractive expiring contract.

But to just make this move now and alter the team’s make up so severely on a gamble that Shawn Marion can still be the same player he once was makes no sense for the Cavaliers at this point. If Ferry made this deal and it didn’t work and Marion remained the same player he has been for the last few years, it would be easy to see the Cavaliers regress, a result that would be disastrous for this franchise in the scope of LeBron James’ future.

 

[salsadancer7]

I moved a question and response from another thread from Sabres in relation to the Marion to Cavs trade talk. See below for my thoughts....



More on this.........

From Cleveland's own Cavaliers Beat Writer.......

Marion is hardly old. He’s only 30 years old. Realistically, he should still have plenty left in the tank. But Marion’s skills and output have been trending downward over the last few seasons. Marion peaked in the 2005-06 season with a Player Efficiency Rating of 23.66. His PER has gone down every year since. Down to 20.87 the next season, 19.10 in 2007-08, and down to a barely above average level of 15.92 this year. His scoring has been going down. He was scoring 21.8 points per game in that 2005-06 season. The following year he was down to 17.5 ppg, last year he scored 15.4 ppg, and this year is scoring his lowest points since his rookie season, at 12.4 ppg. His FG% has gone down every season since 2005-06. He’s only a career 33.9% shooter from three-point range. He’s never been a player to give you any assists whatsoever. He averages 2.0 assists per game for his career, and his career high is only 2.7 apg.

The Cavaliers are already paper thin at PF and C, especially with Zydrunas Ilgauskas already missing time with a sprained ankle. Removing Varejao and adding Marion doesn’t really fix that problem for Cleveland.

The Cavaliers are 20-4 right now with a 6 game lead in the Central Division. They are 1st in the NBA in offensive efficiency and 2nd in defensive efficiency. They’re 5th in points per game and 1st in points against per game. They are 4th in FG% and they are 2nd in opponents FG%. Team chemistry is at an all time high. There’s no doubt they are not at Boston’s level yet, and there’s no doubt Danny Ferry will be looking at all options regarding Wally Szczerbiak's VERY attractive expiring contract.

But to just make this move now and alter the team’s make up so severely on a gamble that Shawn Marion can still be the same player he once was makes no sense for the Cavaliers at this point. If Ferry made this deal and it didn’t work and Marion remained the same player he has been for the last few years, it would be easy to see the Cavaliers regress, a result that would be disastrous for this franchise in the scope of LeBron James’ future.

His average was down last year because he was not asked to score as much AND he was injured a little bit. He is STILL good for 18 and 12 and will defend most tough #4 assignment. He will be tougher than anyone you have on your roster because he will quitely do the dirty work on the team. EVERY TEAM needs one of those guys. The ONLY reason I would want to lose him is because of that big ass contract....17 million a year....IF would have renegocaited for say...around 8, he would definately be in the future plans of the team. But NOT at 17 million. I assure you, if asked to, he can average in the mid to lower 20s in points. But IF he goes to Cleveland, he will have the same role he has in Miami because BOTH Miami and Cleveland have the same thing: A STUD player that will handle most if not all of the "touches" on the team.

 

[HD MM]

His average was down last year because he was not asked to score as much AND he was injured a little bit. He is STILL good for 18 and 12 and will defend most tough #4 assignment. He will be tougher than anyone you have on your roster because he will quitely do the dirty work on the team. EVERY TEAM needs one of those guys. The ONLY reason I would want to lose him is because of that big ass contract....17 million a year....IF would have renegocaited for say...around 8, he would definately be in the future plans of the team. But NOT at 17 million. I assure you, if asked to, he can average in the mid to lower 20s in points. But IF he goes to Cleveland, he will have the same role he has in Miami because BOTH Miami and Cleveland have the same thing: A STUD player that will handle most if not all of the "touches" on the team.

Salsa, this isn't just about last year. Since peaking with the Suns in '05, Marion's stats have been diminishing.

2005-2006: 21.8 ppg
2006-2007: 17.5 ppg
2007-2008: 15.4 ppg
2008-2009: 12.4 ppg

I just don't see how another small forward makes this team better. Plus, we would be giving up two solid 6 & 7 men from the bench. Andy Varajao is also our backup center. I've said it from the start of the year: Our weakest part of our team is the center position. If Z goes down, we are in trouble. Andy is our only insurance.

 

[salsadancer7]

Salsa, this isn't just about last year. Since peaking with the Suns in '05, Marion's stats have been diminishing.

2005-2006: 21.8 ppg
2006-2007: 17.5 ppg
2007-2008: 15.4 ppg
2008-2009: 12.4 ppg

I just don't see how another small forward makes this team better. Plus, we would be giving up two solid 6 & 7 men from the bench. Andy Varajao is also our backup center. I've said it from the start of the year: Our weakest part of our team is the center position. If Z goes down, we are in trouble. Andy is our only insurance.

You have to also look into emergence of Amar'e Stoudemire being the #1 scoring option and Steve Nash being the #2. Nash came in the year that he averaged his 21 ppg...1st year that Nash was there, he averaged about 15 ppg..then the year proceeding that it went UP almost 4 points per game. AND, that was just Nash.
In 2004-2005, it was JUST Marion and Stoudemire doing the bulk of the scoring...next year Amare got hurt and Nash pick up his output. The year after when Amare came back, others were picking up the slack and it was no longer a two player team. It make perfect sense, considering he bitched to the local media in Phoenix that he was no longer "involved as much" in the offense.

So to me, it wasn't his skills eroding but him not being as important to the offense as he use to be.

 

[Paul Wozniak]

My favorite stat in Basketball has to be the "DIFF". I love how ESPN keeps note of it in their standings found here.......

ESPN - NBA Standings, Pro Basketball Standings, NBA Team Records

It's basically the difference between average points for and the average points against a team. This stat is a great showing of how good your combined offense and defense is.

Right now, the Cavaliers are leading the league in the "DIFF" category with a +12.7.

Speaking of the Cavs........ Gawd, this 3 day layoff seems like forever! Although this is probably good for our injured guys to heel (Z and Boobie), I can't wait until my Wine & Gold take the floor again tomorrow against the T-Wolves!!!

Would it still be your favorite if the Cav's didn't lead the category. What a homer.

 

[HD MM]

Would it still be your favorite if the Cav's didn't lead the category. What a homer.

No.

 

[HD MM]

You have to also look into emergence of Amar'e Stoudemire being the #1 scoring option and Steve Nash being the #2. Nash came in the year that he averaged his 21 ppg...1st year that Nash was there, he averaged about 15 ppg..then the year proceeding that it went UP almost 4 points per game. AND, that was just Nash.
In 2004-2005, it was JUST Marion and Stoudemire doing the bulk of the scoring...next year Amare got hurt and Nash pick up his output. The year after when Amare came back, others were picking up the slack and it was no longer a two player team. It make perfect sense, considering he bitched to the local media in Phoenix that he was no longer "involved as much" in the offense.

So to me, it wasn't his skills eroding but him not being as important to the offense as he use to be.

I'm sure Marion is still a good player and he may even be more motivated if he came to a Championship caliber team, but I just don't know.

Why mess with something that aint broke? And hurt our depth in doing so? That's my only point.

 

[salsadancer7]

I'm sure Marion is still a good player and he may even be more motivated if he came to a Championship caliber team, but I just don't know.

Why mess with something that aint broke? And hurt our depth in doing so? That's my only point.

LOL.....Geez.....

 

[HD MM]

LOL.....Geez.....

LOL, geeze what? Judging by his declining numbers he doesn't look motivated anymore and he's only 30 years old, so you can't blame it on age....

 

[salsadancer7]

LOL, geeze what? Judging by his declining numbers he doesn't look motivated anymore and he's only 30 years old, so you can't blame it on age....

You did not read a single thing I posted about his numbers, you are just under the assumption that he is getting old and has lost interest.

His numbers had ALOT to do with the changing of the goals of the team and very little to do with his skills. The Future was Amare, Nash, Bell and those guys....HE was not a part of it.

 

[HD MM]

You did not read a single thing I posted about his numbers, you are just under the assumption that he is getting old and has lost interest.

His numbers had ALOT to do with the changing of the goals of the team and very little to do with his skills. The Future was Amare, Nash, Bell and those guys....HE was not a part of it.

I did, but that doesn't explain how he is declining in Miami now does it?

 

[salsadancer7]

I did, but that doesn't explain how he is declining in Miami now does it?

OH MY GOD......

His average was down last year because he was not asked to score as much AND he was injured a little bit. He is STILL good for 18 and 12 and will defend most tough #4 assignment. He will be tougher than anyone you have on your roster because he will quitely do the dirty work on the team. EVERY TEAM needs one of those guys

 

[HD MM]

OH MY GOD......

I don't buy that. Your making excuses for a player again. Numbers don't lie. You said it yourself many times.

And AGAIN, this still doesn't show my why the Cavs need another small forward which is what this whole topic was originally about.

And btw, we already have a guy that "does the dirty work". His name is Anderson Varajao. And he's bigger than Marion! This trade has no legs anyways. We would be robbing one position of depth to add to a position we are not in need of.

 

[salsadancer7]

I don't buy that. Your making excuses for a player again. Numbers don't lie. You said it yourself many times.

And AGAIN, this still doesn't show my why the Cavs need another small forward which is what this whole topic was originally about.

And btw, we already have a guy that "does the dirty work". His name is Anderson Varajao. And he's bigger than Marion! This trade has no legs anyways. We would be robbing one position of depth to add to a position we are not in need of.

Yes I have said numbers don't lie...BUT numbers do NOT tell the complete story sometimes. AND numbers are not always black and white. Declining numbers does not mean declining/eroding skills. Things change on teams, where they are going, new players, sudden trades. And because it is a player that might get traded to your beloved Cavs, the homer in you does want anything the even smell like the truth....because there HAS to be a catch. 1st of all, he, more than likely will NOT BE PLAYING small forward, because he has not played that in Miami. He has been "roving" mostly in the power foward position while Adonis Haslem has been rovering more toward the center postion. They have done this since last year.

...but you would know because you watch Heat games.....?

And whether the trade has legs or not, you last paragraph shows the state of mind when it comes to your feelings on this subject...."We would be robbing one position of depth to add to a position we are not in need of". You don't want it and anything I or anyone else would have told you, was not gonna be 'bought'.

I am giving you why his numbers went down HERE and why they more than likely went down in Phoenix.

 

[HD MM]

Yes I have said numbers don't lie...BUT numbers do NOT tell the complete story sometimes. AND numbers are not always black and white. Declining numbers does not mean declining/eroding skills. Things change on teams, where they are going, new players, sudden trades. And because it is a player that might get traded to your beloved Cavs, the homer in you does want anything the even smell like the truth....because there HAS to be a catch. 1st of all, he, more than likely will NOT BE PLAYING small forward, because he has not played that in Miami. He has been "roving" mostly in the power foward position while Adonis Haslem has been rovering more toward the center postion. They have done this since last year.

...but you would know because you watch Heat games.....?

And whether the trade has legs or not, you last paragraph shows the state of mind when it comes to your feelings on this subject...."We would be robbing one position of depth to add to a position we are not in need of". You don't want it and anything I or anyone else would have told you, was not gonna be 'bought'.

I am giving you why his numbers went down HERE and why they more than likely went down in Phoenix.

Numbers may not always tell the whole story as you say, but what about percentages? You can't argue production while on the court. His FG% has gone down every season since 2005-06. He’s only a career 33.9% shooter from three-point range. He’s never been a player to give you any assists whatsoever. He averages 2.0 assists per game for his career, and his career high is only 2.7 apg.

And how is my analysis of Marion "homerism"? If this trade did have legs and I thought it would help my team, don't you think I would be all about it? I think it is you defending your beloved Miami Heat player that is being the homer.

With everything said, I still don't want him on our team. We would be losing a backup center (Varajao) and a skilled outside shooter in Wally Z. Knowing what we have, not messing with chemistry and our depth is safe. Taking a risk on the hopes that Marion somehow turns his numbers around is risky.