MPEG4 Upgrade Discussion

[Skyboss]

They are running full-bore, balls-to-the-wall, to the point of overheating regularly and still can only produce fully realized HD signal at about 14Mbps.

A typical cable co is only pumping out HD at rate of 12.6 using MPEG-2 per channel with three chanels stuffed in a 6MHz slot using QAM. MPEG-4 should require no greater than 10-11 per channel.

OLN and Outdoor Network are two different channels, BTW. Apparently, there is a trial for Outdoor Network HD somewhere in PA, haven't heard a thing about OLN.

This is an HD channel for OLN. Has nothing to do with Outdoor Network.

 

[Barney]

They are running full-bore, balls-to-the-wall, to the point of overheating regularly and still can only produce fully realized HD signal at about 14Mbps.

A typical cable co is only pumping out HD at rate of 12.6 using MPEG-2 per channel with three chanels stuffed in a 6MHz slot using QAM. MPEG-4 should require no greater than 10-11 per channel.

Would you care to discuss this with COF (Crazy Old Fart), he is an engineer buy the way (I know him, been to his home etc, but no. I'm no engineer-would love to read this discussion)?

Mpeg4

Barney

PS: I'll see if he'll log on here......don't hold your breath...he deals with facts, not rumors....

 

[Skyboss]

Now you've frightened me off. I am under NDA (non-disclosure agreement) on this stuff, so I can only say so much before I get fired. I don't mind discussing the technology in general and the general direction and expectations of the industry, but I cannot get into any specifics.

This is the best he has? Not worth my time.

He's talking the system used to deliver to your home via the phone company. He's right, the telco's aren't there yet. They also use different equipment.

Cable co's have been using the Tandberg line to deliver feeds for local sports in HD via MPEG-4 to the headend for over a year so that they can deliver HD and SD feeds in the same pipe cost effectively. It's then converted to MPEG-2 and placed on the QAM system.

 

[sateck01]

I'm confused on this. Can you please point out which one of my posts your talking about. I'm not sure what statement your saying I made but I would like to know it.

on page 1, the crack about directv changing their minds more than bush has about why we are in iraq

 

[vurbano]

the two new birds I was referring to were the spaceway twins, which are indeed HD LIL only. they may put a few national HD channels on them, but they're going to be 95% LIL.

They are spot beam for HDLIL. How are they going to do national coverage? Ive heard that they may not have enough power to do it.

 

[Skyboss]

They are spot beam for HDLIL. How are they going to do national coverage? Ive heard that they may not have enough power to do it.

The national feeds with be MPEG-4 feeds on the Ku system (current system), unless Spaceway 2 keeps getting pushed back in which case they can use some of the Ka Conus capacity on DirecTV8 to deliver the first 12 markets using MPEG-4 until Spaceway issues are settled . Spaceway 1/2 when operational will serve about 50 LiL markets plus a VOD type service. Nationally, they have room for about 30 Conus HD channels using MPEG-4 right now, but they are using MPEG-2 which cuts that in half and then some.

 

[LonghornXP]

on page 1, the crack about directv changing their minds more than bush has about why we are in iraq

Last time I checked it wasn't a crack on Bush because again last time I checked he had a different story to shove at us. With that said this thread will not turn political so at least I will leave it at this. I hope you all will do the same.

 

[vurbano]

The national feeds with be MPEG-4 feeds on the Ku system (current system), unless Spaceway 2 keeps getting pushed back in which case they can use some of the Ka Conus capacity on DirecTV8 to deliver the first 12 markets using MPEG-4 until Spaceway issues are settled . Spaceway 1/2 when operational will serve about 50 LiL markets plus a VOD type service. Nationally, they have room for about 30 Conus HD channels using MPEG-4 right now, but they are using MPEG-2 which cuts that in half and then some.

I was reffering specifically to Spaceway 1 and 2 and their ability to deliver National HD vs HDLIL. They are spot beam. From what Ive read at DBS forums, LonghornXP correct me if Im wrong but hasnt Dan Collins stated that the Spaceway sats could be configured to do some national coverage but may not have enough power to do national HD channels?

Originally posted by Dan Collins on 06-10-2005 at 09:39 AM in post #16:

I thought that was the point of the post. Of course if DirectTV8 has more CONUS capacity than the sat it replaced then some National HD could be done there.

 

[Alan Gordon]

I was reffering specifically to Spaceway 1 and 2 and their ability to deliver National HD vs HDLIL. They are spot beam. From what Ive read at DBS forums, LonghornXP correct me if Im wrong but hasnt Dan Collins stated that the Spaceway sats could be configured to do some national coverage but may not have enough power to do national HD channels?

Basically, what he said was that SpaceWay-1 and SpaceWay-2 will be used to do two giant spot beams each covering half of the country.

~Alan

 

[Alan Gordon]

Cable co's have been using the Tandberg line to deliver feeds for local sports in HD via MPEG-4 to the headend for over a year so that they can deliver HD and SD feeds in the same pipe cost effectively. It's then converted to MPEG-2 and placed on the QAM system.

I was reading DSLReports last night, and noticed an article talking about the phone companies' efforts into video, and noticed a section on MPEG4. Here is the link to the article, but a portion of the article said:

BBR: What are your thoughts on the various compression flavors the bells are exploring for IPTV and HD?

DB: MPEG-4 and Windows Media 9/VC1 are separately fighting out the war for the codec and the associated royalties. Microsoft in particular muddied the waters by showing great demos of carefully pre-encoded HD movies that ran at 6Mbps, and some uninformed CEOs and COOs didn't realize live TV, especially sports, needs much more bandwidth.

Two HD channels at 6 meg require 12 meg, maybe 14 with overhead, which sounds like it can fit in 20 meg and leave some room for data and a third standard definition set. But the real codecs for live TV, shipping late in 2005, will need 9.3 meg per channel, and even the companies selling them know they've sacrificed some quality to get it down that far.

So to watch one HD show and record another requires about 20 meg, and leaves things very tight unless you designed for 30 meg in the first place. Verizon looked at that, and said we better go for fiber; BellSouth and Bell Canada are thinking two lines bonded, and SBC is praying they can squeeze everything in without critical compromises.

Currently, MPEG-4 AVC 264 is a little ahead of the Microsoft codec, probably a quarter or two. So most telcos are going MPEG-4 even if they are using the Microsoft IPTV software for copy protection, network management, channel switching, etc. Microsoft is pushing hard to get in, so the situation is dynamic.

Just thought it was interesting.

~Alan

 

[mhutsell3]

So I am relatively new to these forums. I have several questions:

1. Should I buy D* HD receiver now or wait? I am currently under no contract and have been with D* for almost 4 years.

2. I am in the Indianapolis Market when are they on this launch list for MPEG4?

3. If I buy a HD receiver now will they upgrade it for free.

4. Should I just switch to E*?

I am really confused, but I want HD broadcasts and due to the distance I am from the stations it is impossible for me to get OTA broadcasts in hd.

I am looking for a little help here.

Thanks,


Mhutsell3

 

[charper1]

1. Should I buy D* HD receiver now or wait? I am currently under no contract and have been with D* for almost 4 years.

Why wait? Buy an inexpensive used one off of ebay, but do not get into a contract to add it. (call 1st)

2. I am in the Indianapolis Market when are they on this launch list for MPEG4?

Your DMA is #25, but there is NO official word on anything at this point and there won't be until at least after the Spaceway 2 launch.

3. If I buy a HD receiver now will they upgrade it for free.

Once again there is NO official word on anything at this point, but they more than likely will for an additional contract. (Longhorn may explain it better)

4. Should I just switch to E*?

Why would you? Is that what you want to do anyway? Nothing they have is that much worse, better or cheaper, so why give up your 4 years? They will soon follow with the same MPEG4 upgrades eventually.

I want HD broadcasts and due to the distance I am from the stations

I would bet money DirecTV will offer better HD network availability, but regardless of the service (D or E). You will still have to qualify.

 

[underlord2]

I live in Wayne Co. of Michigan, not too far from Detroit, is that the detroit market and whats the info on the MPEG4 here?

 

[Kentstater72]

I live in Wayne Co. of Michigan, not too far from Detroit, is that the detroit market and whats the info on the MPEG4 here?

All of Wayne county is Detroit locals.

Detroit is in the top DMA's that will be getting LIL and HD in Mpeg4 in the first round of upgrades.

I live in Bedford Township in Monroe county and I am in the Detroit DMA even though I am 2 miles from Toledo.

I am waiting though until they have actually put up the satellite, rolled out the new equipment and offer the LIL in HD.

 

[underlord2]

Sweet, thanks

 

[mhutsell3]

I decided to stay with D*. I was at Best Buy in Lafayette tonight and they had a deal I could not pass up. Apparently 25 of their 700 some stores were allowed this deal. The H10 HD Receiver $299 with a $300 rebate. Gee a free receiver. Was I stupid for going ahead and taking the plunge?

 

[hdtvtechno]

I decided to stay with D*. I was at Best Buy in Lafayette tonight and they had a deal I could not pass up. Apparently 25 of their 700 some stores were allowed this deal. The H10 HD Receiver $299 with a $300 rebate. Gee a free receiver. Was I stupid for going ahead and taking the plunge?

Dude You got an Free HD receiver. Great Job

 

[lou_do]

I decided to stay with D*. I was at Best Buy in Lafayette tonight and they had a deal I could not pass up. Apparently 25 of their 700 some stores were allowed this deal. The H10 HD Receiver $299 with a $300 rebate. Gee a free receiver. Was I stupid for going ahead and taking the plunge?

Do you know where we can find out where those 25 stores are located?

 

[auribe14]

Castleton, Indiana

 

[pstineme]

Avon, Indiana