MPEG4 HD DVR and Home Media Center news:

[LonghornXP]

Well you all are correct and the demo I saw was just the software side of things because the coax feed was directly connected to the billing system. I've spent the last 24 hours calling back telling my contact what all of you on this site have said and my contact (the person who was in person showing me the demo) just assumed that I would know this. Now the system didn't need a network, phone or wireless card/cable because the coax was directly connected to the billing system. So on to how this all will work.

For this to work with all boxes it will require at least one box being directly connected to a phone line or you will need a wireless USB adapter that will directly connect to a router that has a high speed connection fed through it. So an older box could use a phone line and work just fine. Now all the boxes out today except for a very few will be updated with new software supporting this new moca standard. Even SD and HD Tivo boxes will support this but they along with the non DVR boxes won't support multiroom viewing.

Now once the boxes get the software upgrade via satellite the newer NDS DVR boxes (including unreleased HD and SD DVR products along with the HMC) will have multiroom viewing from that point supported. Now its unknown if non DVR boxes will support playback from the DVR at first but they are looking at using unused transponders to allow non DVR boxes to playback shows from the DVRs. They can in simple terms send the stream from the DVR over the cable and make the other box think the stream is coming from say SAT X transponder X.

So it does seem that an SD and HD Tivo most likely can playback a show but the SD and HD Tivos will never support streaming to other boxes. Sorry but that is the official word for the Tivo and that is 100% official from the people that know.

I'm sorry about all of this and you all made some very very good points which is why I started to question the facts myself. Because of your opinions I was able to "finally" get the right facts. Again I never nor will I ever get upset at anything you guys say because this is exactly how he find out if we need to ask more questions.

At least you guys know my lack of knowledge in some of these areas.

 

[Alan Gordon]

I'm sorry about all of this and you all made some very very good points which is why I started to question the facts myself. Because of your opinions I was able to "finally" get the right facts. Again I never nor will I ever get upset at anything you guys say because this is exactly how he find out if we need to ask more questions.

At least you guys know my lack of knowledge in some of these areas.

Then it might be a good time for you to "touch base" again with your contact regarding the statements you made in this post.

~Alan

 

[LonghornXP]

Then it might be a good time for you to "touch base" again with your contact regarding the statements you made in this post.

~Alan

This wasn't from the same contact and as such it was stated to be a rumor and I have clearly said I've been burned and most likely will be in the future. From what I've been told is that once a nearby SD market offers local channels in that market you will no longer get the SD DNS feeds. Also if an SD local market has been announced it will still go up and as I said new markets SD locals won't be offered anymore. The SD markets that have been announced but not available yet aren't new are they. They are known local SD markets.

Now this may not occur as quick as the HD distant networks but they will. Anyone who thinks that once they get SD local channels that they still deserve SD DNS channels just aren't thinking clearly. By the way did you know that D* doesn't even have to offer you DNS channels even if you are allowed to get them. They don't even have to offer you local channels by the way. As of now you have no right to receive DNS channels so don't think that they won't take them away if they find a better option to satisfy both the networks and themselves.

Now with that said I could be 100% wrong but they have an incentive to do things this way even if it doesn't benefit the customers. Does any company do anything to benefit the customer. You answer to this question should shed some insight for all of you.

Now I've always said in public when I was wrong and I always have taken your opinions good or bad and in some cases did something with them. With that said I'll have no problems doing something else with my time instead of informing you all. Maybe its time I did something better with my time because the fact is I've spent way too much time saying the same stuff over and over.

Sometimes some of you have to accept that a rumor isn't fact. If you really knew how many times this company has changed their mind in the last 10 months or so you wouldn't be so upset with me. I've held off on saying some things because I almost knew it would change and some of them had been changed and scrapped. I pride myself on trying to provide factual rumored information but that has become nearly impossible with this company in the last year or so. Why do you think not much has been leaked by others including release dates and new offerings. Right now they are spending all of their time working programming deals for their HD local offerings instead of national HD offerings.

Just keep in mind the stress we have to deal with and what we have to hear from people "if" our information turns out wrong. You should read some of the PMs I get from people blaming me because they spend money in the hopes that they would get something free and when that doesn't turn out well they blame me knowing full well that this was a rumor. One person blamed me when I said the rumor about tons of new national HD offerings. So they spend all that money on an HD Tivo and once the end of the year came out and I got the changed word that no new HD offerings would be offered including ESPN 2 HD until much later I got one very nasty PM with a person saying he was going to sue me for the money he spent because of my "promise" of tons of new national HD channels.

I know I've gone on and on but try to look at things from my point of view and ask yourself why I even bother giving information knowing the backlash I "will" get. When I said that new national HD offerings wouldn't be coming including ESPN 2 HD and TNT HD around Christmas time last year you don't want to know the backlash I got. People kept saying I was full of crap because guys like KenH and others said they would be adding these channels. Remember the days of January, Feburary, March and on and on and nothing was ever added. Did you think I liked telling people they aren't getting anything new even though others with a better rep than me said otherwise.

You know I've talked myself into why I've bothered with this for so long. I'm sorry guys but you have to give some of us a little slack because enough is enough. Its always about how we are wrong and never about saying thanks when we are right and you have something to look forward with and enjoy.

 

[mdonnelly]

... Sometimes some of you have to accept that a rumor isn't fact... ... I pride myself on trying to provide factual rumored information ...

 

[peterl1365]

LonghornXP,

Thanks for being big enough to own up to your mistakes. It was a reasonable oversight on your part, and is to be expected when dealing with unreleased (and very tentative) information. I think that anyone looking to internet message boards for advance information must take it upon themselves to understand that everything must be regarded as rumor until it's sitting on your doorstep.

So, that said, please continue to provide whatever information you can get. Even if it turns out to be inaccurate, at least it provides a glimpse of the future.

Now, let me see if I'm understanding what you're saying. The HMC and HD DVR will be running Ucentric software over MOCA And that existing receivers, including the Dtivos will be receiving a software update that will enable MOCA connectivity Wouldn't the receiver need some form of transmit capability to talk over MOCA? I don't really see how a simple SW upgrade could make an old receiver MOCA-capable.

The idea of using the HMC and/or HD DVR to "broadcast" to other receivers is interesting. That would mean that I could keep my existing DTivos to use as HMC clients and still have Tivo functionality. Aside from true HMO, this seems to be the best of both worlds. I presume this would require a new multiswitch.

Also, you seem to imply that the new DVR's, including the R15, will support MRV. Why would D* support MRV on this platform but not the Tivo platform?

Finally, what time frame are we talking about here? It sounds like this is something that D* is committed to doing, since they talked about it in their analysts conference call. Does Q2/Q3 2006 seem acheivable?

 

[Alan Gordon]

Now with that said I could be 100% wrong

Actually, you aren't 100% wrong, as something I read today (which happened last week that I wasn't aware of) showed me as being wrong on a couple of points (though it was because of something changing), but still right on a couple of others.

I'll respond to the rest of this post (and explain what I was wrong about) on the National Network HD feeds (Urgent Update): thread a little later tonight as I have to finish up some work now.

~Alan

 

[M Sparks]

I don't have a problem with people spreading rumors. I don't have a problem with people being wrong. (I've sure done both quite a few times!)

I have a problem with people spreading baseless rumors that they themselves made up because they couldn't understand simple technology, THEN mocking those people who tried to point out the obvious error.

No one TOLD you there was some magical backwards signal- you made it up. You claim you asked how it was connected. When they told you it wasn't, you didn't bother to ask HOW the PPV order was going to get back. You just made up an ABSURD story, which hurts your credibility the next time you try to answer a tech question.

I mean, if I told my 93 year old grandfather that a company could "read" something in his home backwards through radio waves...well first he would get scared and talk about "warlocks". But then, even he would begin to question things. He may not understand how television- digital or analog- works. But he knows it's transmitted FROM one place TO another.

 

[LonghornXP]

I don't have a problem with people spreading rumors. I don't have a problem with people being wrong. (I've sure done both quite a few times!)

I have a problem with people spreading baseless rumors that they themselves made up because they couldn't understand simple technology, THEN mocking those people who tried to point out the obvious error.

No one TOLD you there was some magical backwards signal- you made it up. You claim you asked how it was connected. When they told you it wasn't, you didn't bother to ask HOW the PPV order was going to get back. You just made up an ABSURD story, which hurts your credibility the next time you try to answer a tech question.

I mean, if I told my 93 year old grandfather that a company could "read" something in his home backwards through radio waves...well first he would get scared and talk about "warlocks". But then, even he would begin to question things. He may not understand how television- digital or analog- works. But he knows it's transmitted FROM one place TO another.

Yes indeed that was my big mistake and I've said that a few times now. Now I know quite a bit about this tech stuff but not anything close to what I could or should learn for that matter. Now I saw nothing connected to the box and I kept asking how the system worked. I was told that it reads the access card to see what you purchased. Now at the sametime your looking at a box with nothing connected to it and a screen tuned to a channel with a little message with a satellite icon with little animated lines saying the words please wait and sending data. I assumed that they found a way todo this because if you were looking at this screen and the connections on the box you would think they found some clever way todo this because it seemed so much so.

I think my problem was that I asked the wrong questions and I wasn't making up anything as you have said and that to say the least pisses me off to no end. I was saying what I was told and if you saw what I saw you might have been fooled into thinking they found some magical way too. From now on please quit blaming the delivery boy.

I don't mind you questioning me at all but don't you ever call me a liar again. Also don't you ever say I make stuff up again either. Before you accuse me of making stuff up maybe you should accuse KenH and all the other staff members who said that ESPN 2 HD and TNT HD would be coming at least from their 9 dates they had. Nobody could believe that DirecTV could have a contract in place for ESPN 2 HD but not add the channel for another 8 months. That was pretty risky for me to say to everyone that ESPN 2 HD wasn't coming until years end when people like KenH and others said othewise "and" DirecTV had a deal in place for it.

You can attack me for many things but not for the two reasons you just gave.

 

[LonghornXP]

That didn't come out quite the way I wanted it too. You get the general idea I was getting at. But that was funny rereading it again.

 

[LonghornXP]

LonghornXP,

Thanks for being big enough to own up to your mistakes. It was a reasonable oversight on your part, and is to be expected when dealing with unreleased (and very tentative) information. I think that anyone looking to internet message boards for advance information must take it upon themselves to understand that everything must be regarded as rumor until it's sitting on your doorstep.

So, that said, please continue to provide whatever information you can get. Even if it turns out to be inaccurate, at least it provides a glimpse of the future.

Now, let me see if I'm understanding what you're saying. The HMC and HD DVR will be running Ucentric software over MOCA And that existing receivers, including the Dtivos will be receiving a software update that will enable MOCA connectivity Wouldn't the receiver need some form of transmit capability to talk over MOCA? I don't really see how a simple SW upgrade could make an old receiver MOCA-capable.

The idea of using the HMC and/or HD DVR to "broadcast" to other receivers is interesting. That would mean that I could keep my existing DTivos to use as HMC clients and still have Tivo functionality. Aside from true HMO, this seems to be the best of both worlds. I presume this would require a new multiswitch.

Also, you seem to imply that the new DVR's, including the R15, will support MRV. Why would D* support MRV on this platform but not the Tivo platform?

Finally, what time frame are we talking about here? It sounds like this is something that D* is committed to doing, since they talked about it in their analysts conference call. Does Q2/Q3 2006 seem acheivable?

The talking between the boxes won't need anything special to start with. Now if you want to share DVRed content you will need a new multiswitch that right now doesn't have a release date yet. The holdup on multiroom viewing is the multiswitch and not anything else. Now the Tivo boxes won't support it because to support multiroom viewing with the Tivo software requires a complete rewrite of the Tivo software for D*. Because the newer DVRs are using NDS based software they can easily add that ability into their software. Now D* could add the Home Media Option for the Tivos but that will create the good chance of a support nightmare because it must work using wireless networking cards while the newer NDS non Tivo DVRs can use this new multiswitch.

Also keep in mind that because Tivo isn't partnered with D* anymore because D* didn't renew their contract with them what incentive would Tivo have to rewrite the software to support this when they have nothing to gain out of it. Again D* doesn't write the Tivo software for their DVRs. Tivo writes the software for DirecTV as they will for Comcast as well.

As of right now because I have no information whatsoever on the status of this new multiswitch I can't get make a somewhat accurate guess as to when it will be availalbe. Now if everything goes on schedule D* plans to have the multiswitch out about the sametime that the HMC becomes available. Now as with anything when does any product ever come out on schedule. So I except this to be out within the range of the second quarter of 2006 through the fourth quarter of 2006. I know thats a big window but until I get a little more specific information that is the most realistic window I can give.

 

[peterl1365]

The talking between the boxes won't need anything special to start with. Now if you want to share DVRed content you will need a new multiswitch that right now doesn't have a release date yet. The holdup on multiroom viewing is the multiswitch and not anything else. Now the Tivo boxes won't support it because to support multiroom viewing with the Tivo software requires a complete rewrite of the Tivo software for D*. Because the newer DVRs are using NDS based software they can easily add that ability into their software. Now D* could add the Home Media Option for the Tivos but that will create the good chance of a support nightmare because it must work using wireless networking cards while the newer NDS non Tivo DVRs can use this new multiswitch.

Also keep in mind that because Tivo isn't partnered with D* anymore because D* didn't renew their contract with them what incentive would Tivo have to rewrite the software to support this when they have nothing to gain out of it. Again D* doesn't write the Tivo software for their DVRs. Tivo writes the software for DirecTV as they will for Comcast as well.

As of right now because I have no information whatsoever on the status of this new multiswitch I can't get make a somewhat accurate guess as to when it will be availalbe. Now if everything goes on schedule D* plans to have the multiswitch out about the sametime that the HMC becomes available. Now as with anything when does any product ever come out on schedule. So I except this to be out within the range of the second quarter of 2006 through the fourth quarter of 2006. I know thats a big window but until I get a little more specific information that is the most realistic window I can give.

Interesting. I imagine the following scenario:

D* had several long-range plans for MRV, MOCA, Interactive TV, etc. This would have required a massive rewrite of the Tivo code. The folks at Tivo came up with a price for the rewrite and D*/Rupert thinks that they could do the same thing for less money *AND* have complete control over the codebase. D* and Tivo never quite come to terms on the cost of the rewrite, so D* decides to dump Tivo and do it themselves.

Is this basically what happened? Or was it simply a case of corporate incest where Rupert wanted D* to buy work with NDS no matter what?

 

[mdonnelly]

That didn't come out quite the way I wanted it too. You get the general idea I was getting at. But that was funny rereading it again.

Just jerking your chain, Longhorn. You do good work here.

 

[donyoop]

Just jerking your chain, Longhorn. You do good work here.

My beef here is not with LonghornXP, it is with Directv. Directv seems to have the policy of disseminating no information, ever. I'm not counting the CSR misinformation. Therefore, you have many D* customers waiting with baited breath for any information on the new technologies that will be rolled out in the next couple of years. The result is that when one communication misunderstanding occurs, it is flame city. Longhorn has over the past couple of years given us for the most part good information, no not 100%, but pretty dang good.

But my question is, why do we have to rely on LonghornXP, Robert, Scott, & KenH to get all of our D* information? Certainly some of the technologies are far enough along to release some details so that customers can plan for future installations... c'mon D*, commit to something. Have a Q&A on your website for future technologies and also the opportunity to e-mail questions to an expert and not a CSR who will obviously give a wrong answer.

Don

 

[charper1]

But my question is, why do we have to rely on LonghornXP, Robert, Scott, & KenH to get all of our D* information? Certainly some of the technologies are far enough along to release some details so that customers can plan for future installations... Don

You only have to rely on those guys to satisfy the need for "leaked" or "sneak peek" advanced, non-official info. DirecTV, like most other companies, only roll out official info via their strategically timed press releases a few months, or even a few weeks, before a product release date or arrival. They leave the sneak peeks and bantering to the industry reporters and trade shows where they belong, just like all their rivals do. This is nothing remotely unique to DirecTV and there is NO CONSPIRACIES at work.

If they announced proposed item specs so people could plan as you say, what happens after spending many 100's of dollars even 1000's based on those proposed ideas only to find out too late, that those ideas were scraped or those specs changed and your hard earned money went down the tubes; You would be bitching tenfold AND be out the cash plus having to spend even more.

Just exercise restraint and common sense in knowing that most of what you read here is generally stated as RUMOR and should not be etched in stone. Exercise patience for the real releases. I would much rather my info and hardware/software to be correct and smooth functioning as opposed to rushed and clusterF@#Ked to satisfy as very small portion of impatient subs.

It seems like some of you guys just want some drama, or something, anything to yap about, when the majority of us just want quality products.

 

[mikedz4]

they used to announce new products, services and locals every january then have an update every quarter. It seems like now that rupert took over they don't even do that anymore.Is that because Hughes had a history of promising things that never came about or just how rupert runs things?

 

[all4jo]

so is the shutting down of receivers still gonna happen? i ask this because im In the cariibean , and i was ready to get the new r15 but a new 2 year agreement is long.
thanks

 

[rad]

If they announced proposed item specs so people could plan as you say, what happens after spending many 100's of dollars even 1000's based on those proposed ideas only to find out too late, that those ideas were scraped or those specs changed and your hard earned money went down the tubes; You would be bitching tenfold AND be out the cash plus having to spend even more.

Yea, just ask the E* folks that purchased a 921 for $1K based on E* announcing that the 1394 port would be enabled to allow copy to D-VHS decks, then changed their minds.

 

[LonghornXP]

Interesting. I imagine the following scenario:

D* had several long-range plans for MRV, MOCA, Interactive TV, etc. This would have required a massive rewrite of the Tivo code. The folks at Tivo came up with a price for the rewrite and D*/Rupert thinks that they could do the same thing for less money *AND* have complete control over the codebase. D* and Tivo never quite come to terms on the cost of the rewrite, so D* decides to dump Tivo and do it themselves.

Is this basically what happened? Or was it simply a case of corporate incest where Rupert wanted D* to buy work with NDS no matter what?

Both of your reasons but the first reason was the biggest reason.

 

[LonghornXP]

so is the shutting down of receivers still gonna happen? i ask this because im In the cariibean , and i was ready to get the new r15 but a new 2 year agreement is long.
thanks

Sorry but yes this is still on schedule. They will also be using the spotbeam thing I was talking about simply because an IP address and a phone number can be spoofed.

 

[JosephB]

I don't see how the "in-home backhaul"could work on existing receivers in the field now, except maybe the R15 and D10 if they had plans in place. This would not only require a software update, but specialized hardware to send the signals back on the coax. I think for this to work is going to require all new hardware, or atleast hardware that was designed with this in mind. And I would speculate that the earliest receiver that could conceivably use it is the D10, although I doubt it (this is all speculation on my part BTW)