I don't see where there was any "criticizm" from Bear, Herdfan or myself about Longhorn's info being valid or not, just some posibilities and as I said in my post, so far alot of it is becoming reality. If our statements were taken as criticizim, I personally am sorry cause mine weren't intended to be.---Raylurch said:
MPEG4 HD DVR and Home Media Center news:
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LonghornXP said:
No, I fail to understand how a computer 3000 miles away can "read" information on a card in my house without a return channel.
Just saying the word "read" over and over doesn't make it true or possible. It's just semantics.
Most of what you're saying makes sense...and it isn't that much different than the way things work now. But remote PPV ordering requires some sort of 2 way communication- period. If the box doesn't have a phone or internet connection, or some kind of transmitter, then the commuication has to be manual phone or internet communication. And that is a step BACKWARD. I can see why they would want to do it, but don't try to sell it as a feature.
Most people fail to understand that just having your phone line connected doesn't mean that your PPV movie purchase information is sent right away. When you try to order a PPV movie your access card is set to have a max amount you can order per month. That amount is also based quite a bit on your credit check. So when you order a movie with your remote the box knows to turn on that channel and in most cases your box would collect all the PPV purchases you have made in that month and send them via the next monthly phone call.
The point I'm getting at is that unlike cable which is two way and charges you right smack at the time you order it DirecTVs system just stores the charges on your access card until the next monthly call. If you reach your monthly limit than that is another issue.
Now on the backend channel issue I don't know exactly how they do it but the fact remains that I've seen this in action and I saw the box (Hughes SD Tivo) in person during the test and let me say quite clear that no wireless, ethernet nor phone connection was present period. The only ports that had something plugged into them was the two SAT feeds and the red, white and yellow video cables. Besides those ports and the power cable nothing else was plugged into this box. When the box tried to make its phone call it changed the channel on tuner 1 and the screen said sending data....please wait. Once it finished it said complete and said to press select or it would go back to the original channel in 15 seconds. I can't quite remember the test channel number but it was in the 1000s and it was labeled bcknd but beyond that I don't know how exactly it works.
The point I'm getting at is that unlike cable which is two way and charges you right smack at the time you order it DirecTVs system just stores the charges on your access card until the next monthly call. If you reach your monthly limit than that is another issue.
Now on the backend channel issue I don't know exactly how they do it but the fact remains that I've seen this in action and I saw the box (Hughes SD Tivo) in person during the test and let me say quite clear that no wireless, ethernet nor phone connection was present period. The only ports that had something plugged into them was the two SAT feeds and the red, white and yellow video cables. Besides those ports and the power cable nothing else was plugged into this box. When the box tried to make its phone call it changed the channel on tuner 1 and the screen said sending data....please wait. Once it finished it said complete and said to press select or it would go back to the original channel in 15 seconds. I can't quite remember the test channel number but it was in the 1000s and it was labeled bcknd but beyond that I don't know how exactly it works.
Now on the backend channel issue I don't know exactly how they do it but the fact remains that I've seen this in action and I saw the box (Hughes SD Tivo) in person during the test and let me say quite clear that no wireless, ethernet nor phone connection was present period. The only ports that had something plugged into them was the two SAT feeds and the red, white and yellow video cables. Besides those ports and the power cable nothing else was plugged into this box. When the box tried to make its phone call it changed the channel on tuner 1 and the screen said sending data....please wait. Once it finished it said complete and said to press select or it would go back to the original channel in 15 seconds. I can't quite remember the test channel number but it was in the 1000s and it was labeled bcknd but beyond
that I don't know how exactly it works.
Sorry, that's not possible -- there is exists no physics to support what you described. There was something else going on that is not in your description. I'm an RFIC Research Scientist, with extensive satellite experience, and competent to call you on this one.
that I don't know how exactly it works.
Sorry, that's not possible -- there is exists no physics to support what you described. There was something else going on that is not in your description. I'm an RFIC Research Scientist, with extensive satellite experience, and competent to call you on this one.
LonghornXP said:
Every single one of your posts in this thread in this thread are the same.
1)You tell us that we "fail to understand", and then follow it up with information that everyone already knows (but is apparently news to you).
2)You then tell us a fairy tale, followed by the explanation that you "don't know how it works".
Question...how do you know there was no wireless connection. It's wireless! Or, it could be passing data via the RG6 to the receiver that IS connected. After all, this is supposed to be a "network"
The other hole...even if there is some "magic" new technology here, you said it would be for ALL receivers.
My guess...this is something like DirecPC 1 way.
I have a general question when it comes to the HMC. If we are offered to rent the system from DTV, will we be charged one fee for the whole system or will we still have to pay a mirroring fee for each box attached? So for example will it cost a flat fee of say $8 a month or will I have to pay $10 mirroring fee for 2 extra boxes. Anyone know the answer to this?
M Sparks said:
I've asked if it was connected in any way shape or form that I couldn't see and I was told no. I'm just glad to know that within the next six months all of this crap back and forth won't mean anything because you all will soon enough find out that I'm right.
Again I can't help that I don't know how it works on the technicial side but it does work just using the existing 101 satellite with just a single LNB dish and MPEG2 SD box.
I also kept saying that you fail to understand the fact that I can't say exactly how they do it. I'm only telling you how it works from what I saw and everytime someone says otherwise I endup having to say that they are failing to understand that I can't explain how it works. Also this source I trust more than anyone else and I've never and I mean never been burned by this person.
I'm going to quit proving my case for now because you will know about this soon enough. Right now I have nothing more I can say about how it works.
k2ue said:
For an expert it will be sad for everyone to find out just how good you are in your job. I say in six months you won't be posting anything about this.
LonghornXP said:
Hey guys, is it possible that the box has an internal cell modem or something like & simply makes its own phone call to transmit?
LonghornXP said:
In 1982 there was a outfit who insisted that they could receive all 24 C-Band transponders off a single coax, with no polarization changes, and full with quality reception. There was no physics to support that claim either, despite all the people who swear they witnessed it. And when it was denounced then there were the same assertions that they were just more clever than their detractors. You are claiming transmission without any transmission medium -- I'm holding a card behind my back with all my pay-perview buys on it, read it from where you are, but don't use a phone line, internet or a transmitting dish. That is what you have described. Let's face it, the only possibility left is a cell phone, and other than 911 there is no universal service that doesn't require an account.
I doubt there is any type of wireless modem in the box. Think of all the D* customers who live in rural areas that don't get a good cellular signal. Just not practical, IMO.
k2ue said:
I know someone who interviewed for a job with a company that was working on a prototype technology for transmitting data over background noise. Theoretically, the entire spectrum was available for unlicensed use because it would not interfere with existing transmissions. Basically, they would simply transmit low levels of noise and digitally modulate it to transmit data. Existing devices would simply filter out the noise, and no one would be impacted.
Yeah, I know it sounds really out there, but you never know. Who would have imagined WiMax technology 20 years ago. I remember reading about how difficult the problem of HDTV was just 15 years ago. Few people thought that the processor horsepower would advance fast enough to make HDTV a viable consumer option.
I think that LonghornXP has been correct more often than not. I'd give him some benefit of the doubt on this one. Just because we can't guess at what the solution would be doesn't mean that there isn't one.
peterl1365 said:
You're kidding, right? But then I've read Doctoral Discertations what were equally bogus. Transmitting "noise" of any given power level is no less subject to FCC regulation than any other type of signal. And anything actually resembling noise cannot be "filtered" out -- it would be indistinguishable from the thermal/atmospheric noise floor and desensitize other systems in the same way. A claim and a fact supported by physical laws are not the same. Where is that company now <grin>. . . ?
k2ue said:
I'm just repeating what I was told about their technology. This was about 2 years ago. It's very possible that the company has gone belly up. I think the point was that the "signal" was already below the background level of noise, and therefore not subject to regulation.
Who knows, it might all be bulls**t.
OT, but it kind of reminds me of a college roommate who dreamed up "dehydrated water" as a solution for transporting water to drought-stricken areas. He was a sociology major. That should explain everything.
Longhorn XP, I don't mean to bash you or be disrespectful, but I've come to expect this in LXP posts. When the HMC first was announced I forget what the details were but they were obviously wrong and when I or someone else called him out on it we were wrong, blah blah, whatever, and he kept posting it as the gospel. Since I can't really remember the details I won't dwell on it.
BUT it is IMPOSSIBLE to "read" what is on the card without some way for the data to go BACK do DirecTV. The post on AVS forums said there would be a new system so that not ALL the receivers would have to call in which was a very obvious suggestion that probably one receiver in the house would have an outside connection, either telephone or internet, and the other receivers in the house would connect to that main receiver and all the aggregate PPV/other info would be stored on the main receiver and uploaded when it phoned home.
If that is the case, one thing I think they have to do is force this networking to be on either the coax or via powerline networking. If its done by ethernet then account sharing will become super easy, because then one could simply setup a VPN between each remote location, or a WLAN in an apartment complex, and share an account between each box, have them upload to the main acct, and then that one box phone home. That would even allow account sharing with NFLST. Hopefully they thought that one out.
BUT it is IMPOSSIBLE to "read" what is on the card without some way for the data to go BACK do DirecTV. The post on AVS forums said there would be a new system so that not ALL the receivers would have to call in which was a very obvious suggestion that probably one receiver in the house would have an outside connection, either telephone or internet, and the other receivers in the house would connect to that main receiver and all the aggregate PPV/other info would be stored on the main receiver and uploaded when it phoned home.
If that is the case, one thing I think they have to do is force this networking to be on either the coax or via powerline networking. If its done by ethernet then account sharing will become super easy, because then one could simply setup a VPN between each remote location, or a WLAN in an apartment complex, and share an account between each box, have them upload to the main acct, and then that one box phone home. That would even allow account sharing with NFLST. Hopefully they thought that one out.
peterl1365 said:
It sounds like you are talking about Ultra Wideband (UWB), and that technology is real, but very compute-intensive. Check out www.timedomain.com for more info. There is a single company with the patents on equivalent technology over wires, and it will be providing the great equalizer for bandwidth for the Cable guys competing against fiber up to about 100Mbps, IIRC.
As for LonghornXP, I was not criticizing him personally. In fact, I said I was concerned that he had been given a few pieces of a story that might specifically identify him. If he has seen the box in action, then my guess is that this is DirecPC-type functionality (which is not possible using an 18" oval dish), or Scott had it and it was using an alternate networking tech (e.g., power line or RG-6). RFID would work, but the proximity needed would be prohibitive (you are meter reading, but from the front door...).
Later,
Bill
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