MPEG4 HD DVR and Home Media Center news:

[jdk]

then buying an r15 is a waste now IF th hd dvr is available by jan 2006

so will their be a trade invalue for us r15 guys ?

The R15 is a SD-DVR, so really has nothing to do with MPEG4 and HD for the forseeable future. I doubt they're be trading them in for anything for quite a while.

As for the price of receivers, as someone has already stated, you can get several standard receivers installed for free from DirecTV right now.
You can get one SD-DVR for $100 minus $100 rebate = $0 right now.
In Detroit you can get one HD receiver for $200 minus $200 MIR = $0 right now, and it looks like that offer will be extended to other areas as the MPEG4 rollout expands.

We don't know what's going to happen with pricing for the new HD-DVR or HMC yet, but my guess is that they'll also be quite competetive with your local cable company with either a purchase or "rent" plan.

 

[monetnj]

I live in the NY DMA and currently have an HD Tivo. Does it make sense to buy a second HD Tivo at this late date? I am thinking of getting a second HD set, but could, of course, put it off to the new year if it means I could rent a second HD DVR for it without the upfront costs necessary for the HD Tivo. I suspect that supply of the new HD DVR will be constrained at first and the only way to guarantee getting a second one will be to trade in two HD Tivos.

Last I've heard is if you trade-in your HD Tivo for the new HMC you would have two options. First you would find out how much it would cost an existing customer to buy without a trade-in both the new HD DVR and the HMC. Lets say in this example the HD DVR costs 500 bucks while the HMC costs 750 bucks. Because your HDTivo will be replaced free of charge with the HD DVR that will give you a 500 dollar replacement allowance. So you would endup paying the difference between the two products. In this case if you traded in your HD Tivo for the HMC at the prices above you would have to pay 250 bucks. Once you pay that cost you own the box outright without rental fees.

Your second option from what I hear would be a discount on the rental charge for your first two years. That cost should be half or better of the going rental rate.

Also in case anyone wanted to know I've been told that D* will be renting all new HD hardware but once you finish your two year agreement you will own the box. So you are pretty much renting to own but as new products come out you can rent those new products the sameway but you can't tradein you old box even if you own it to get a discount on the new rental product.

Just so you know rental pricing for HD boxes and the HD DVR will start after the first of the year. It also seems that the HD DVR will be out before the end of January.

 

[cheebs]

About the spot-beam thing: any idea on the timeline for this? Also, will this shut down ALL out-of area boxes or only newer ones that are able to take the update? Does a new CAM figure into this as well?

I'm also out of the US, it looks like we're SOL with D*

I guess it's SC or E* for us in the not-so-distant future.

 

[JosephB]

About the spot-beam thing: any idea on the timeline for this? Also, will this shut down ALL out-of area boxes or only newer ones that are able to take the update? Does a new CAM figure into this as well?

I'm also out of the US, it looks like we're SOL with D*

I guess it's SC or E* for us in the not-so-distant future.

I'm thinking this is gonna be hard for them to do. I'm willing to bet that alot of older boxes won't be able to handle the software needed for processing this. The box will have to decide that it can't pick up the signal and deauth the card. Not all boxes will be able to handle that. I'd worry about it when DirecTV actually announces it, it kinda sounds pie-in-the-sky right now, as it'd kill all 1st gen boxes for sure and probably many other boxes after that, including Ultimate TV and Tivo

 

[monetnj]

I'm thinking this is gonna be hard for them to do. I'm willing to bet that alot of older boxes won't be able to handle the software needed for processing this. The box will have to decide that it can't pick up the signal and deauth the card. Not all boxes will be able to handle that. I'd worry about it when DirecTV actually announces it, it kinda sounds pie-in-the-sky right now, as it'd kill all 1st gen boxes for sure and probably many other boxes after that, including Ultimate TV and Tivo

At the risk of stating the obvious, won't all D* customers have new MPEG4 boxes in the next couple of years? From what I understand, the first swap-outs will be HD customers, but it will eventually trickle down to all customers. At some point in the future, D* will switch off the MPEG2 streams, so to remain a D* customer, those with 1st gen boxes, Ultimate TV, Tivo etc. will have to trade them in eventually.

Of course, as JosephB says, no worries until D* makes an official announcement.

 

[JosephB]

At the risk of stating the obvious, won't all D* customers have new MPEG4 boxes in the next couple of years? From what I understand, the first swap-outs will be HD customers, but it will eventually trickle down to all customers. At some point in the future, D* will switch off the MPEG2 streams, so to remain a D* customer, those with 1st gen boxes, Ultimate TV, Tivo etc. will have to trade them in eventually.

Of course, as JosephB says, no worries until D* makes an official announcement.

Actually, no, right now Directv says they have no plans in the works to move all programming over to MPEG4. For the near and mid term future, mpeg 4 will only affect HD subscribers. Actually, with the new switch needed with an mpeg4 setup, it seems like they've gone out of their way to keep old boxes working, also taking into account the hacks to get spotbeams working on 1st gen boxes.

 

[monetnj]

Actually, no, right now Directv says they have no plans in the works to move all programming over to MPEG4. For the near and mid term future, mpeg 4 will only affect HD subscribers. Actually, with the new switch needed with an mpeg4 setup, it seems like they've gone out of their way to keep old boxes working, also taking into account the hacks to get spotbeams working on 1st gen boxes.

Assuming that MPEG4 compression of SD channels would free up bandwidth, I can't see where D* wouldn't explore this after converting over their HD channels and customers.

 

[JosephB]

Assuming that MPEG4 compression of SD channels would free up bandwidth, I can't see where D* wouldn't explore this after converting over their HD channels and customers.

Well, they've already said they aren't looking to do it anytime before the end of the HD conversion, and even after that they have no plans and aren't looking at it. I'm sure at some point in the future they'll switch, but it'll be more than 5 years probably, and more than bandwidth would have to be a deciding factor (although in 5 years a large percentage of content will be in HD anyway)

The cost of switching EVERYTHING to mpeg4 isn't offset by the benefit. All they'd get is some more bandwidth, but with the new satellites they have plenty with HD in mpeg4. Right now there's not that much more content that they can put up that they will not have space for. IIRC they're adding every local in HD for the entire country as well as 150 national HD channels. All this while keeping SD in mpeg2.

Until there's a "killer app" or some other deal breaker that would require them to upgrade every box (something like the conditional access getting hacked to a point that 1st gen boxes can't be fixed) then I doubt they'd upgrade to mpeg4 on SD content. Eventually there won't be any SD content, so it'll be a moot point.

 

[Newshawk]

... I doubt they'd upgrade to mpeg4 on SD content. Eventually there won't be any SD content, so it'll be a moot point.

Actually, there will always be SD content, unless you're intent on throwing away over 60 years of broadcasting history, not to mention close to 100 years of movies. I think what you meant to say is there will be no SD channels, but then that may not be true, either. Some channels, no matter what, will never have a pressing need to convert to HD. I think we'll be living the rest of our lives in a bifurcated world.

 

[peterl1365]

Actually, there will always be SD content, unless you're intent on throwing away over 60 years of broadcasting history, not to mention close to 100 years of movies. I think what you meant to say is there will be no SD channels, but then that may not be true, either. Some channels, no matter what, will never have a pressing need to convert to HD. I think we'll be living the rest of our lives in a bifurcated world.

I think sometime in the foreseeable future, all SD channels will go away. Granted, some SD programming will still be around, but the channels themselves will all be at least capable of HD. THis will probably be 15-20 years or so, but the transition is inevitable, just like the transition from black and white to color.

The increase in computing power will drive down the cost of HD video gear. Eventually, all videocameras, except for the very low-end walmart-type will be capable of recording in HD or ED. SD content will just stop being created.

So, I can see somewhere in the next 5-10 years that a switch from mpeg-2 to mpeg-4 would happen. I don't think it will be a massive switchover, just an attrition process as the older mpeg-2 boxes are replaced with mpeg-2/4 capable boxes. At some point, the number of mpeg-2 only boxes will fall below the 1 million mark, and it will make sense to force the the rest of the transition.

My prediction, the H-20 box (or it's replacement) will become the standard DirecTV "giveaway" box within 18-24 months. The D10, or it's short-lived successor, will be the last mpeg-2 only box sold by D*.

 

[Neutron]

I'm really looking forward to the HMS. I will be getting that methinks.

 

[vurbano]

I wish my ISP gave me a $2000 PC.

Oh please. Dish rents their boxes and so does cable

 

[hancox]

Yeah? And how many of them are multi-room?

 

[JosephB]

Yeah? And how many of them are multi-room?

Uhh, dish has atleast 2 multiroom boxes and Scientific Atlanta has a multiroom solution that is about to be rolled out by Brighthouse and probably more systems (If Brighthouse does it, Time Warner will probably do it at some point). Also. comcast will be releasing Tivo to their system eventually which will probably have HMO features included.

In terms of features, DirecTV recievers are way behind, although in stability and polished finished, they lead the pack (IMHO) If you could get the people who design/come up with the features for Dish receivers and let DirecTV engineers actually implement it, then you'd have a cable killer.

 

[Doctor Bob]

My prediction, the H-20 box (or it's replacement) will become the standard DirecTV "giveaway" box within 18-24 months. The D10, or it's short-lived successor, will be the last mpeg-2 only box sold by D*.

I think you will find the Ole' 80/20 Rule will apply here... 80% Straight Digital and 20% HD... There will probably be 3 levels of the new Televisions, but all of them will have to meet the FCC standards of being able to connect to the SD standard, equipment... Of course, in the last 61 years, I've been wrong a few times... LOL

 

[hancox]

Uhh, dish has atleast 2 multiroom boxes and Scientific Atlanta has a multiroom solution that is about to be rolled out by Brighthouse and probably more systems (If Brighthouse does it, Time Warner will probably do it at some point). Also. comcast will be releasing Tivo to their system eventually which will probably have HMO features included.

The E* solution isn't really "multi-room" it's "multi-out". Yes, it can output 2 distinct signals simutaneously, but only from the same physical box, with a single connection. Not even remotely close to what we're talking about with the HMC, Tivo MVR, etc.

 

[JustBob]

The E* solution isn't really "multi-room" it's "multi-out". Yes, it can output 2 distinct signals simutaneously, but only from the same physical box, with a single connection. Not even remotely close to what we're talking about with the HMC, Tivo MVR, etc.

How is that not even remotely close? I haven't seen Dish's system but I know someone who has it and he described it to me. It sounds very close to what I've read about the HMC. The HMC might have more tuners available and bells and whistles. But it sounds like they both control multi-room viewing.

-JustBob

 

[rad]

How is that not even remotely close? I haven't seen Dish's system but I know someone who has it and he described it to me. It sounds very close to what I've read about the HMC. The HMC might have more tuners available and bells and whistles. But it sounds like they both control multi-room viewing.

-JustBob

It's OK if you have only two TV's and you don't mind that the 2nd TV connects only via a RF signal (the one that produces the worst quality signal) and is SD only, no HD. With the HMC content is distributed to more then two sets and any set can watch anything that's recorded on the HMC in SD or HD. That's what comes to mind from what I've heard so far.

 

[JosephB]

It's OK if you have only two TV's and you don't mind that the 2nd TV connects only via a RF signal (the one that produces the worst quality signal) and is SD only, no HD. With the HMC content is distributed to more then two sets and any set can watch anything that's recorded on the HMC in SD or HD. That's what comes to mind from what I've heard so far.

Ok, I'll give you the fact that the Dish solution isn't all there in terms of HMC features (no HD on the second TV is the main thing). But cable has a full HMC type implementation ready now. Every single one of Scientific Atlanta's boxes are MRV capable, even the non DVR boxes. All it takes is n+1 "MR" boxes to serve as servers and any Scientific Atlanta digital cable box from the absolute basic 2000 all the way to the 8300HD (Which is a DVR) can replay content from the MR server. You can have multiple servers per house and it will do HD as long as the playing box is HD. Every MR server just shows up as a VOD channel. I'm not trying to be a cable fanboy, but they have the lead on this, and its leased. Only charges are a standard rental fee + the normal DVR fee. The MultiRoom box doesn't cost any more than a standard DVR (and it does HD!)

 

[rad]

I'll agree with you that cable appears to be in the lead, but as you said in your prior post, they're about to roll it out, doesn't sound like you can order it now.

Comcast is also working on a Motorola solution, SBC's working on a 2Wire solution and D*'s got theirs (haven't heard much about E*'s plans). And if you buy into LonghornXP's posts, D*'s plans for early next year is to go to a rent/lease model like cable, but he's saying that at the end of 2 years the box is yours. Cable will also be more like DBS since with the continuing migration to all digital you'll need to start paying for a STB rental fee for all those sets you have now that are using their analog tuner without a box. IMHO, give them all a year or two and they'll basically all look the same from channel selection and features, LonghornXP has even posted that D* has plans to be able to offer VOD just like cable does now (which is a really neat feature).