Moving. Need advice on planning new dish farm.

[Dee_Ann]

It looks like a 40 foot tower starts at $800. Mind you, I don’t know one from another, I have zero experience with this subject.
All I know is a few years ago I watched a video called “Stairway to heaven” where a few guys climbed a tower that was several thousand feet tall.
It made me violently ill and I had spasms and pains in places I didn’t think possible.

Found it. Not watching it..



Anyway, if I put up a tower it has to be one that tilts over. I will not climb one under any circumstances. EVER.
The site says they are free standing but I would put wires on them anyway, this is hurricane alley.
I saw them rated at 90mph. That won’t cut it here. It has to be able to stand at least 130mph as that’s not uncommon for us here.
Anything more than 130mph and the tower will be of no concern to anyone as there won’t be a lot left standing.
So yeah, wires to hold it for sure..

I’ve got a few months so I’ll research this a lot, I won’t just jump off and order the first shiny thing I find.
Also I might find an old one in craigslist. So I’ve got time to find something and make sure it’s done right..

 

[Dee_Ann]

Well in my quest to learn what is the best antenna and amplifier I learned that OTA TV is doomed. Greedy corporations are stealing the airwaves and the government is in bed with them. OTA is on life support. And after they steal the 600mhz range getting Houston will be impossible.
No free TV. Free is bad. Free is unAmerican. Capitalism and profit before the little people. TV will become pay only. They'll kill everything good.
At least I don't have that many more years left on this miserable world.


Sent from my ancient Jurasic iPad using Jurasic Tapatalk 2.5.2

 

[T4Runner]

I just watched the stairway to heaven video for the first time! I didn't realize until the video ended that my stomach muscles were clenched! I have a 62ft ham radio tower that I have climbed a few times and use a harness when doing that, but the video reminded me that when you climb you have to unclip yourself from the tower. There is a "pucker factor" that increases exponentially the higher you go when you unclip...

 

[wvman]

I was in the satellite business from the get go. I've seen dishes go from ugly monsters that look more like a backstop at a baseball game to dishes smaller than 18 inches. We went from quality equipment on a near commercial level to junk LNBF's costing a piddling $20. FTA is a good thing, and until recently, I hadn't kept up with it, but then one of the last holdouts on analog C-Band was forced into the digital world by the FCC. I purchased 2 Geosat-Pro Hdvr1200's. They are a decent little receiver with somewhat questionable HDMI outputs, and by this I mean the Hi Def signal varies a great deal from one channel to another.

One channel will be top notch, and others bearing the HD designation barely rise above a questionable standard definition quality. In fact, some SD channels offer much better video reproduction. I've shown my system to several individuals who over the years junked their old C-Band systems. They were impressed, but weren't willing to go through the trouble of setting up a FTA system, even though it relatively inexpensive to do. OTA here is not an option. I live in the mountains, digital reception stinks at best. I guess being a dealer for over 30 years contributed to the broadcaster's greed, since we enabled them by supporting digital.

I will admit, I fought it for several years until it was obvious that big dishes had overstayed their welcome in most people's yard. To be honest, I hate digital due to its unreliability in bad weather, and the problems associated with compressed video streams. Even on a 7 1/2 foot wire mesh dish, I still experience problems with drop outs and lost signals. But, as long as there's something free out there that strikes my fancy, I'll stick it out, but I don't see much hope of ever having a receiver that rises above fair at best. Even though I sold Dish, DirecTV, Prime Star and all the others, I've had my last dance with either of them after they stuck it too their dealers, and kept raising their prices.

Call me old school, but I refuse to pay for 20 minutes of commercials an hour and their attempts to push the deviant lifestyles down out throat. If that's all they have to offer, I'll do without TV, or at least stick with something where my subscription fees aren't supporting agendas I don't agree with.

 

[Dee_Ann]

1,000 channels of cr*p.. The so called Weather channel has shows like “Fat Guys in the Woods” and Iceberg Hunters. Then there’s Honey Boo Boo. Alien, bigfoot and ghost BS on the so called Science channel. Call it the Syence Channel now, eh?
I really like the educational science things. The stuff about the universe and planets and space, I love that stuff. But it’s all going away to make room for Bigfoot and little fat girls with diabetes and the IQ of a potato. Pretty much all that “reality” BS is degenerate garbage that turns your brain to mashed potatoes. Pretty much everything on TV now is aimed at an audience with the collective IQ of a potato. So much to watch, so little value...

I read also that the FCC is going to turn over another 500mhz of the television frequencies to the cell phone industry by 2020 which means that there will be no such thing as over the air TV.
All because everyone HAS TO HAVE twitter and faceborg in their car an Walmart and the doctor’s office. Yes, that’s more important that having FREE TV. And when they’ve killed OTA then the only way to get TV will be via pay subscription.
And when you get TV over a wire they can monitor everything you watch and and sell your metrics to the highest bidder. So the last bastion of privacy, watching TV without parasites monitoring you, will be gone forever.
Free=bad. Privacy=bad. We are cattle, born and bred and herded into being good little consumers that never question authority and must submit to corporate anal probes and if we don’t then we’re the bad people, unAmerican.

I could go off big times on a political rant here but I won’t because of the rules. But I will say that big corporations are BAD. They take away choice and freedom and in the end we lose. They exist to bleed us dry of every last penny, every last drop of blood, every single thing of value. They are the crooks and we let them rob us blind over and over..

2015 is the year they steal another large chunk of the airwaves. The camel’s nose is under the tent. All the way up to the second hump now.

They are going to force channels down into the smaller frame. Some will be forced to go off the air permanently.
Some will be forced to go to cable only. Some will be forced to “bundle up” with other channels on their frequencies.
But we lose. It’s BAD for consumers. All because everyone just has to have the bloody internet everywhere, all the time.

http://usjvc.com/blog/?p=324

Each and every TV station OTA on any UHF channel in the range 31 through 51 must either relocate to a channel below 31 (through a possible channel sharing arrangement or agree to relocate to a VHF channel), become just a local cable channel or simply cease to exist. That applies to all 682 TV stations currently transmitting in that spectrum range (572 – 698 MHz) across the U.S.

The FCC is forcing TV stations to begin vacating the 600mhz frequencies in the summer of 2015. That’s when we will begin to see channels go black because they can’t afford to relocate to lower channels or find that there’s no room left for them.
Houston is going to be hit hard as will all big cities. So the death of OTA is upon us soon.

Nothing good will come of this.
I suppose it’s folly to invest time and money into a TV antenna system. FTA only has so much time left too. Eventually it will be nothing but uplink trucks covering disasters, religious channels or foreign language stuff.

 

[Mr Tony]

OK in response to a post above......

the antenna you posted is overkill IMO. VHF Low (which are the really long elements) really isnt in most areas. All you need is a antenna that does channels 7-51. Check the solid signal site and you'll find one like that minus the VHF Low portion

As for 2edge vs tropo if you scroll to the bottom of the tvfool page it tells yea
LOS-line of site
1edge-signal bounces off 1 thing to get to ya
2edge-bounces off 2 things
tropo-unless its humid as heck no way it will work

The NM number feasibly anything above 0.0 you should get. Can you get stuff in the negative? heck yeah. My tvfool showed the VHF I use to get when I had my house was -10 or so yet it was about 98% reliable

 

[Mr Tony]

Id go with a HBU55 myself
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=HBU55&ss=297429

I had a HBU44 and a 33 at the house and it worked great. Otherwise you can go with a separate VHF and UHF antenna

 

[Dee_Ann]

Yes, when I was trying to learn what antenna would be the best I learned that there is very little in the VHF now and that most of the stuff I want is in UHF. My UHF antenna that I’m currently using is not at all the best I could have chosen.
All that is on VHF is local KBMT 12.x (which comes in 100%) and KUHT (VHF) which I don’t care about because I get it on Dish and on FTA. I don’t care about KPLC (VHF) anymore since they are dropping This for GRIT. There’s nothing there for me.
So that leaves only KBMT on VHF that I care about. So I only need to worry about a proper UHF antenna. BUT, I wonder what will happen after the doomed channels are kicked down next summer. Surely some will end up on VHF. I guess I’ll cross the bridge when it comes.

Anyway, here’s the UHF antenna I’m currently using.

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=4221-HD&ss=297529
It’s specifications are not very impressive. But I think at the time I bought, 2010, it was only trying to get local stations, I hadn’t even thought about Houston back then.
It says it’s only rated to 45 miles. That’s a far cry from the 96 miles that I am from the Houston towers.


The UHF/VHF combiner -- http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=uvsj

the rotor -- http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=ROTR100&ss=297535

the pre-amp -- Amazon product ASIN B002ONMCH0
and I’m pretty sure this is the antenna my dad gave me, http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11113386#
I threw the box away several years ago, I don’t remember what was on it but he told me it was an FM radio antenna.
When I went looking for it on Radioshack this was the only thing that looks like the one I have.



I have spent a few days reading up on TV antennas and I am amazed to discover how little I knew about it.

Another thing I found was some guys selling a better amplifier in England that they claim does the same thing as increasing the size of your antenna by 40%.

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/glossaryA.html#fringe

Fringe area reception - If you live in the fringe, you can’t afford to make any mistakes. You must find a mounting site that is high and not behind any trees. You might benefit by searching your property for the spots with the strongest signals. You need a Channel Master 7777 amplifier. You need the biggest antennas made. You might need single channel Yagis for VHF. For UHF, start with a Channel Master 4228 or a Winegard 9032. If with this you don’t even get a digital lock then that station is hopeless. If you get a digital lock but you see too many dropouts then consider ganging two antennas (see http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/16bay.html ) Another improvement you can make is to get a quieter amplifier. Research Communication in Kent England makes a UHF amplifier with a 0.4 dB noise figure. It is expensive and takes some time and effort to acquire but it will be like enlarging the antenna by 40%.

In the fringe, weather affects reception. You will never get dropout-free reception every day beyond 60 miles for UHF, 80 miles for VHF, no matter how good your antenna is. Beyond these distances, dropout-free reception on 9 out of 10 days is considered a good result.

I looked at that site and the price for their amplifier is not all that expensive, if it really works then it would be worth it to me to buy one.

Another thing I found was a project where you use TWO antennas. I could get onboard with that too.

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/16bay.html

As always, I had no idea what I was doing when I went into this and just bought what was cheap, as a get by.
And as always, I’ll have to spend my way out of it to get the right stuff.

Fortunately, this time I have several months before I move so I’ve got time to research and learn so I can make an informed purchase.
If I’m getting Houston with an antenna that’s not even rated for half the distance, I think I can do much better than that when I get the right stuff.

 

[Mr Tony]

yeah that UHF antenna works fine for the "locals" but anything past that is touch and go. I used an 8 bay (think 2 of them together) and it worked fine for Minneapolis (30 miles away). Its overkill in Duluth (I'm 2 miles from the towers)
You do have minimal VHF stations there so a simple antenna for 12 would work fine. I posted a link previously (named the "little brother"). Keep that as a fixed antenna (at 12) and use the rotor for UHF
Here is the UHF antenna folks rave about for getting distant stations
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=91XG&ss=297823

 

[Dee_Ann]

Cool beans!
Thank you !
I'll check it out tomorrow.


Sent from my ancient Jurasic iPad using Jurasic Tapatalk 2.5.2

 

[Cham]

I built a channel 15 yagi for the local PBS (Prairie Public Broadcasting) transmitter close to Grand Forks ND, worked ok but not really much better than a single bay panel... Problem is I am far enough away and their tower is short (300' or so) I have to rely on enhanced propagation to receive them... no matter how much gain the antenna has. I only have 5 local channels (Winnipeg area) other than the ones from northern Minnesota and NE North Dakota. Not much for interfering signals on same channel etc.

DeeAnn, you have many stations some really close, but also many close in frequency (channel). I think you need a lower gain antenna but something with really good side rejection so you can point at the channel you want and reject the strong nearby station that might interfere... The 91XG as Icegerg suggests should (depending how well it is designed) reject the side signals fairly well. Try getting by without an amp, or use a really low gain unit or your receiver will be swamped by the nearby strong signals.

Would sure be nice to have a OTA TV receiver and rotor with USALS that would automatically turn your rotor when you change channels... or DISEqC for selecting antennae depending on channel/direction etc. Can't figure out why no one has sold such a unit yet... All the circuits are done, just some minor software mods to do the 360 deg circle instead of 180 deg arc...

 

[Dee_Ann]

I built a channel 15 yagi for the local PBS (Prairie Public Broadcasting) transmitter close to Grand Forks ND, worked ok but not really much better than a single bay panel... Problem is I am far enough away and their tower is short (300' or so) I have to rely on enhanced propagation to receive them... no matter how much gain the antenna has. I only have 5 local channels (Winnipeg area) other than the ones from northern Minnesota and NE North Dakota. Not much for interfering signals on same channel etc.

DeeAnn, you have many stations some really close, but also many close in frequency (channel). I think you need a lower gain antenna but something with really good side rejection so you can point at the channel you want and reject the strong nearby station that might interfere... The 91XG as Icegerg suggests should (depending how well it is designed) reject the side signals fairly well. Try getting by without an amp, or use a really low gain unit or your receiver will be swamped by the nearby strong signals.

Would sure be nice to have a OTA TV receiver and rotor with USALS that would automatically turn your rotor when you change channels... or DISEqC for selecting antennae depending on channel/direction etc. Can't figure out why no one has sold such a unit yet... All the circuits are done, just some minor software mods to do the 360 deg circle instead of 180 deg arc...

My local channels come in really well now. Without a pre-amp watching local OTA was a no-go. I tried to put up with it for a year and it was just BAD. I bought a pre-amp and since then it’s been quite nice.
My only real complaint is that I’ve never been able to get KPLC reliably enough to watch it. But now that they are dropping ThisTV for GRIT, I have zero use for KPLC anymore and I could care less if I can get them or not.
So really my goal is to get Houston channels. But according to TV Fool, the transmitter is 96+ miles away and it’s rated as “tropo” which is problematic even under the best conditions, or so I’ve read.
And then there’s the antenna I have now which is only rated for less than half the distance to Houston. So little wonder I have trouble with them.

In a few months I’m moving a few miles NE of here which will put me at 93+ miles from the transmitter (almost all of Houston shares the same transmission tower over in Sugarland) BUT, according to TV Fool, I’ll go from “tropo” to “two edge” which is a big improvement. The antenna will be higher and I’m planning on upgrading it to the best UHF directional I can find. This should take care of my problem. And eventually I want to put up a tower of at least 40 foot, maybe even 50 foot as the price difference is negligible. THAT should really help matters. And another bonus, there’s no trees in the way like there are here. Here I’m boxed in by BIG, dense oak trees and there’s one ~smack dead in the way~ of Houston.

So yeah, when I move my situation will improve big times. The good thing is that I’ve got time to research this out and make sure I get the right stuff the first time. I’m pretty bad about jumping at the first shiny thing I find on google and then it turns out to be a poor choice and I have to spend more money, again, to get myself out of the mess I made. I’m really weary of those stupid mistakes and having to spend and spend again..
That’s why I’ve started doing away with the cheap, borderline stuff and replacing it with first rate, A1 excellent stuff.

As for building an antenna, I’m not that skilled, it would be too redneck and I would get mad then end up buying a proper one after all, wasting money and time on something I would fail at.
I would rather just buy the best I can get and be done with it.

 

[Mr Tony]

This is the VHF antenna I had when I lived in the apartment
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.as...ls-713-(Y5713)&c=TV Antennas&sku=716079000987

Minneapolis has 2 VHF stations (9 FOX and 11 NBC)
Like I say you could aim that for 12 and then use the UHF on a rotor.

 

[primestar31]

IMO a 91XG yagi antenna is the best homeowners directional UHF antenna there is for its low-profile size, short of a $3,000 commercial parabolic that would take extreme measures to brace at the height you'd need. If you buy TWO 91XG's, and do a stack at at least 55 feet up with a proper phase harness setup a low noise amp and an antenna rotor, you should be able to get the Houston channels fairly reliably.

I used to use a single one at 55ft with an antenna rotor, a 30db gain, 1 db noise (best there was in 1987) amp, and could pick up stations from 135 miles reliably at my elevation at that time. I even could pickup Pennsylvania stations right through Canada, and once picked up a Florida station. Of course, that was analog broadcast and that might make a difference.

 

[Dee_Ann]

I’ll order a 91XG this evening. While I’m still months from moving, I can make use of one right now.
It certainly can’t hurt anything.

That little 4 bay antenna I have now is just too wimpy and not up to the task. It works great for locals but not so much for long distances.

I’ll look into the double antenna thing but that sounds a bit complex so I have no doubts I can just throw one together. Maybe after I move I can add a second antenna.

I looked on Amazon and the reviews are very encouraging.

 

[DRCars]

I’ll order a 91XG this evening. While I’m still months from moving, I can make use of one right now.
It certainly can’t hurt anything.

That little 4 bay antenna I have now is just too wimpy and not up to the task. It works great for locals but not so much for long distances.

I’ll look into the double antenna thing but that sounds a bit complex so I have no doubts I can just throw one together. Maybe after I move I can add a second antenna.

I looked on Amazon and the reviews are very encouraging.

I haven't been glued to this thread and It has probably been covered before .... the 91XG won't get channels below RF 14 (real channel not virtual).

DRCars

 

[Dee_Ann]

Right..

I’ve been going over the channels both local and Houston that I want to get and the only channels that fall into VHF (which I have a separate antenna for already) are

KBMT (local 12.x)
KHOU (Houston 11.x)
KUHT (Houston 8.x)
KPLC (Lake Charles 7.x)

Of those I really have no interest in any other than the local KBMT 12.x and those come in at 100%.
Everything else is currently channel 14 and up. However that may change radically when they auction off the 600mhz frequencies next summer.

Of the Houston channels there are really only two I care about,
KPRC (ThisTV) 2.2 at 35
KIAH (AntennaTV) 39.2 at 38

The rest of the local channels here are also in UHF and fall easily within the 14-52 range.

I don’t see any problems with using this new antenna. The UHF antenna I’m using now only gets 14-69. It’s only because I have a physically separate VHF antenna that I can get KBMT.

On the other hand, I’ve found some sites where people have done some crazy modifications to these antennas that look really interesting..

http://www.atechfabrication.com/products/atfv100_vertical_tilter.htm

http://www.atechfabrication.com/products/atfv300_vertical_tilter.htm

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/25-hd...tacking-4-91xg-s-horizontal-need-spacing.html

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/25-hdtv-technical/1163295-91xg-ya-1713-combined-sq-ft-wind-load.html

Just doing a google image search for that 91XG brought up all kinds of crazy photos which led me to forums where people are doing crazy, extreme modifications to them.
I find it fascinating how you guys think up all these Rube Goldberg things.

Oh, and I ran all sorts of numbers through the TV Fool thing, like different heights for the antenna. It doesn’t matter if I give it 21 feet or 60 feet, all the Houston channels I would want to watch fall under 2Edge. Putting a taller tower doesn’t change the numbers it gives me all that much, at least not in a way that I understand. I imagine there would be some advantage but I don’t think it would be enough to warrant spending $2k on a 60 foot tower. I think a 30 foot tower is more reasonable and more affordable. It should give me enough gain to warrant the cost and still be affordable. Also easier to deal with. Because I don’t climb things, at all. Just getting up on my roof terrifies me.

 

[Cham]

At 90+ miles to the Houston transmitters you will need lots of antenna gain and preamp... What concerns me is your local stations might cause desense in your preamp or TV receiver making the distant station fade into the noise. I guess it would be best to try it and see how it works, maybe you'll luck out.

I regularly make VHF and UHF contacts over 100 miles using SSB and 50w, but we are using 22+ element yagis (UHF) to make it work... 14 to 16 dBi...

 

[primestar31]

If you also need a VHF antenna, here's a very good long range one (I use one myself joined with a UVSJ combiner and separate UHF antenna: Amazon product ASIN B007Z7ZJ66
By the way, sometimes Solidsignal has slightly different prices on their own site compared to Amazon. So you should always check which one will be cheapest when you order.

 

[Dee_Ann]

OMG! Poking around on google images I stumbled across all kinds of cool ideas about antennas.
One thing that I’m also going to order today is a “support bearing” that will let my antenna rotor handle the load better.

And I saw how people make hinged plates for pole mount antennas just like they do for towers, that way you don’t have to get way up on the roof.
That got my brain to thinking of ways to get my antenna up higher than it is now and I won’t have to climb up on the roof anymore.

One thing that just occurred to me is lightning. So all of a sudden I’m not too excited about a really tall antenna.
I think 30 foot it going to be the max I want to put one up. I’ve found all sorts of ideas on google images about hinged antenna poles
so I think I can find something that will work well for me so that I can raise and lower it by myself when needed, which I hope will be rarely.

If you also need a VHF antenna, here's a very good long range one (I use one myself joined with a UVSJ combiner and separate UHF antenna: Amazon product ASIN B007Z7ZJ66
By the way, sometimes Solidsignal has slightly different prices on their own site compared to Amazon. So you should always check which one will be cheapest when you order.

I’m ok on VHF for now. The antenna I have now gets the only local VHF station at 100%. All other stations/channels I’m interested in are UHF. Since it’s working so well for the one VHF station there’s no need to replace it.
Even the local UHF stations work pretty darn good with the exception of KAOB which is a hillbilly station in the woods that’s not always 100% reliable. It’s OK but could be better. I only care about it because they carry PBJ on 27.5
I haven’t gotten my minibud built yet for Luken. I ordered two C2WPLL’s which should be shipping soon, when they come in I’m going to get my C-band stuff worked out. I like having PBJ on local OTA as backup. I’m back to recording my Harvey Toons! \ /

Oh and price comparisons, you betcha! I check all over. I have a few helper apps like Invisiblehand and some other one, I forget the name and everything I browse, it checks in the background trying to find better prices for it.
That bearing was $45 on Amazon but Invisiblehand found it on ebay for about $30. But then I have to balance out do I want to pay a little more and get it shipped faster or save a few dollars but wait weeks for it to go turtle-express?
I bought some 3ghz inline splices on ebay, it said it was a US seller but after THREE WEEKS they were still no show and I complained. The guy finally mailed them to me and all he did was stuff a chinese envelope into another envelope to me.
I was really mad, I could have spent $2 more and and gotten then in 3 days.

Lowest price isn’t always the best deal.