Moving. Need advice on planning new dish farm.

[Dee_Ann]

OMG! Last night I thought I was going to be moving in the spring, like March or April. Today I found out things are taking a huge leap forward and I’m going to have the new place open to move in just before thanksgiving!
The good thing is that the current resident is letting my start putting the fence up and the satellite and TV antenna poles in ahead of them moving out so that when the time comes everything will be ready for me to move in and moving the dishes will be a one day job. I wasn’t really ready for things to move forward this soon but oh well, here we go! This week I’m going to go try and lay out the PVC templates to be sure the dishes will fit and where they will fit.

This morning I ordered two of the 91XG antennas. I’m going to build a “stacked” antenna (actually side by side). I found lots and lots of really advanced discussions where people are doing that.
I have a small actuator and controller I can use to tilt it too. The garage at the new house has a workshop so I can make and fix stuff. I’m going to try to build something like this,

Rather than the little black box that tips it I want to use the satellite actuator instead but put them side by side like above.
I also bought a “thrust bearing” so that the motor can handle the heavier antennas and a winegard signal combiner for dual antennas like above.

I should be able to do pretty well with that. I was at the new place today and I measured out that I could put up a 40 foot tall mast/tower/pole against the house and it would have room to tip down without hitting anything.

Stuff will be happening pretty fast now. I really wasn’t expecting this at all, totally surprised me.
I have a LOT to do.. Woo hoo!!

 

[DVB-S2]

Be aware that the horizontal tube supporting the two antennas has to be non-metallic (e.g. fibreglass), otherwise it will affect the response pattern and gain of the antennas.

I made a tilter with a linear actuator for two 91XGs. Used a top bearing made from an ABS pipe just a bit larger than than the mast diameter, well greased.

 

[Dee_Ann]

Be aware that the horizontal tube supporting the two antennas has to be non-metallic (e.g. fibreglass), otherwise it will affect the response pattern and gain of the antennas.

I made a tilter with a linear actuator for two 91XGs. Used a top bearing made from an ABS pipe just a bit larger than than the mast diameter, well greased.

Uh oh.. Um, yeah... That little detail didn’t surface anywhere else.. Thank you so very much!


Doing ~more~ research I see I’m still a long way from having the things I need to do a dual antenna. But that’s ok, I wasn’t planning on building a dual right away.
For now I’m just putting one antenna up and storing the second until I move then after that I’ll start gathering the rest of the things I need.
Getting a matched pair was I guess the biggest step. I was just afraid if I bought only one now they might change or discontinue them later when I want a second one.
At least I don’t have that worry now. The countdown timer has started and I’ve got two months until I move. Initially I’m going to set up at the new house for a single antenna but I’m putting up a tower/mast/pole of some sort that will be strong enough to handle a quad antenna if I ever decide to go that route. Can’t hurt to put up an extra strong tower even if I never go with a quad antenna.

I’m just glad that I’ve got the major stuff on the way. It’s a really good start.

 

[Dee_Ann]

Well progress continues.
While learning about setting up a matched pair of antennas I learned several things.

I also spotted a HAM radio antenna tower on the way to the store and I took notice of how he rigged up those giant antennas to work on a rotor.
Basically he put the rotor down inside the tower several feet down and used two bearings for the pole coming off of the motor so they take the load and beating, not the motor.

I bought a pair of 91XG antennas. They had two listed as “open box” and were discounted like $10 off each. Well I took a chance and they came in, unopened. No one had ever opened the boxes, they were factory sealed, brand new!
So I saved $20 and got new stuff ! Woo hoo !!

I ordered a winegard signal combiner that designed to do exactly what I need.

I bought ONE of those load bearings but I need to order a second one, now that I’ve learned more about them.

One of the things I was dumbfounded by was the fiberglass tube needed to connect two antennas.
I found a company that sells them. Their price wasn’t too terribly unreasonable but the shipping, they are gouging people on shipping !
It was $35 for one tube. Shipping, $14.10... Pretty much $40 for one tube.
Well, I wanted two of them, just to make my antenna rig extra strong.
$70 for two. And DOUBLE the shipping! $28.20 shipping !! Um, how about NO!

OUCH!!

So I went googling around and found tubes a LOT cheaper and with FREE SHIPPING!
Plus, I found a discount code and got $5 off!

I got TWO tubes, delivered for TWO CENTS LESS than one tube before their (A-Tech) shipping charges are even applied!

I still need to get the mounting clamps but I’m sure I can make something (my my dad’s help) to clamp it all together for a lot less than what A-Tech is selling.
I know you have to make a living but that’s just too much..

The tubes I ordered are slightly bigger and longer but that’s ok, I can live with that.

I also found a photo of a tower that looks a lot like what I want to end up with at the new house.

But with this on top.

And here’s a similar antenna with dual support tubes.

I eventually plan to put an actuator on it so I can tilt them as well as rotate them.

Something sort of like this.

That tilt system is crazy expensive but I am sure I can build one a lot, lot cheaper that does the same thing.
And tilts the pair.

So I assembled one antenna today and amazingly enough I didn’t get it in the kitchen ceiling fan!
For now I’m going to leave the second antenna sealed in the box until I move. I don’t want to try to build the
dual system until I get a proper town set up over there. For now I’ll just do with the one antenna.

Also I read a lot of people were able to get high VHF on the 91XG despite it being a UHF only type.
Well I don’t see why I couldn’t get KBMT 12.x on it. They have 12.1 --> 12.4 and it’s true channels are VHF 12, 207mhz
12.5 and 12.6 are UHF and will come in without issue.

So I’m going to take down the mess I have up there now and replace it with ONE of the 91XG antennas and see what I can get with it.

I guess now that I’ve got this all sorted out I need to get back on topic which is satellites. Ooops...

 

[primestar31]

The tilt system really isn't needed. If you know that you are going to be aimed out say 100 miles 99% of the time, just put some permanent tilt UP into the whole boom right from the start. All you are compensating for is the curvature of the Earth out at the horizon, which at 40ft, is out around 65 miles. There's no need to have a motor to complicate things, as you'll have enough voodoo components to make your life interesting just with the double boom and antenna matching...

Getting your phase harness built and matched will most likely be your greatest issue.

 

[Dee_Ann]

Actually I’ll be aimed at locals about 99% of the time except on occasion when I want to go watch something on ThisTV or AntennaTV.
I liked and miss the 4am stuff, The Outer Limits, Sea Hunt, Highway Patrol, etc.. I’m not too sure what’s on Antenna since I’ve never been able to get a watchable signal yet. I did notice the Addams Family which I absolutely LOVE!
I’m sure I’ll find a few things on there that I really want to watch.

I’ll figure it out eventually. The tilt thing, that’s a loooooong way off, it at all.

 

[dougruss]

How NOT To Raise A Tower

 

[drunk247]

Hmm... I guess putting someone on the roof with a rope wasn't a consideration?

 

[primestar31]

Hmm... I guess putting someone on the roof with a rope wasn't a consideration?

I've BEEN the guy on the roof, and trust me, it's scary as hell when you reach the 45% point and find out you don't weigh enough... Those guys aren't very bright in the way they tried to do that though.

 

[DVB-S2]

The fibreglass tube I used came from Princess Auto - about $4.50 IIRC. It was military surplus 4' x 1 3/4" dia.

The tilt is only useful for receiving signals that are propagated by tropospheric refraction and ducting - they can arrive at angles above the horizon. DXers like to squeeze every last ounce of signal they can out of an antenna array . For line-of-sight signals, horizontal alignment of the antenna is fine.

 

[Dee_Ann]

Actually I would have opted for pulleys, lots of rope and my John Deere.
I also think that if one of them had stood back and used a long pole to help push up on the MIDDLE of it would have been better than all three trying to right it at the base.
I’m not exceptionally bright but I wasn’t born yesterday either.. WOW! Facepalm indeed!

 

[primestar31]

Once you get it at about the 50 degree angle of tilt, it's easy to push it up the rest of the way.

The problem is that small area from around 40 to 50 degrees tilt the tower somehow (seems to) increase it's mass weight by double because you are at the point where leverage no longer helps you. That is, if you are mostly trying to PUSH it up from the base area, like these guys are doing.

 

[Dee_Ann]

I’ve already learned a lot tonight just from watching a few dozen “how NOT to raise a tower” type videos...

Just a brief follow up on my 91XG, it’s amazing!

I know that I have it installed wrong, the metal pole shouldn’t be running up through the middle of it like I have it but as for local channels it’s blowing my TV up with 100%/100%/100% signal/PQ/symbol strength on ever channel.
It’s ridiculous. I was able to get KBMT 12.x on it but it was weak and sketchy and I decided I would rather just continue to use the VHF antenna for VHF and combine the two as I have been doing.
I found the sweet spot where I was able to pull in every single local channel at 100% even though I am not pointed at any one channel in particular, then I loosened and aimed the VHF antenna towards KBMT. So now the two antennas are pointing different directions but every single local channel is coming in completely off the scale. I couldn’t ask for better.

I am not able to get Houston which I attribute to the pole in the middle messing up the signal and that it’s much more directional than the old antenna. I would imagine it needs tipping a little to get Houston.
For now I’m not going to worry about Houston until after I move, I’ll have up a 30-40 foot tower and I’ll build the dual 91XG thing at that time and that should get Houston for me.

It’s amazing how perfectly locals come in now. What a great antenna!

 

[Mr Tony]

So now the two antennas are pointing different directions but every single local channel is coming in completely off the scale

running a tvfool it shows 12 is NE of you whereas the others are mainly NW

 

[Dee_Ann]

running a tvfool it shows 12 is NE of you whereas the others are mainly NW

Yes, that sounds about right..

I’ve eliminated KPLC from my interests. That narrows it down to locals only now.
KFDM, KBMT, KBTV KVHP and KAOB covers it for me.

KVHP is off to the NE too but it comes in well enough that even with the new antenna aimed towards the others, it still gives me a good signal. I don’t watch that much on KVHP anyway so no worries.
I don’t watch much on KBTV either. So it’s really KBMT and KAOB that I’m interested in. But by splaying the two antennas I can hit everything that’s available locally and it all comes in like gangbusters!

I am thrilled that KAOB carries PBJ! Now I can get my Harvey Toons! I record them and archive them down to MKV format. One day I’ll get around to editing out the commercials and save even more room.
Amazingly enough, KAOB is airing it at a bit rate that doesn’t degrade it from the original feed and they don’t inject local commercials, thankfully!
KAOB used to be a religious station but it looks like they were sold and now it’s more or less a family friendly type network which suits me just fine.

I wonder if KBMT will pick up the new H&I channel, they already carry MeTV. I do wish they would spread the bit out a little more evenly, they give COZI a high bit rate and MeTV is really, really low. It looks awful, COZI however looks great.

Once I move and get a tower and the dual antennas I’ll worry about the Houston channels. For now I’ve stopped putting any effort into anything else at this house since it all gets torn down, ripped out and moved in two months.
My moving day is November 22nd. But it’s unlikely I’ll have an antenna tower up until late December.

Fortunately the current resident of my new home is allowing me to come in ahead of schedule to put the poles in for my dishes so when I do move it’s a one day deal. I can have everything ready for me ahead of time.

 

[Dee_Ann]

OMG...... Those fiberglass tubes came in this evening..
They were packed in a giant cardboard tube that I almost gave up on getting into it. I finally had to beat a knife into the metal ends about a dozen times and pry it out with giant pliers.
Talk about well packed! So once I finally got into the thing I got the tubes out and I was sure the messed up because they look like metal, the sound like metal and feel like metal.
I clanked them together and I swear they sound like metal. But the stickers say fiberglass which I guess is like cloth and plastic mixed. I put a magnet on them and nothing, nada, zip.
So I guess they are the real deal. They don’t bend or flex at all. I’ll bet you could pry boulders up with them. I suspect these things may actually be stronger than real metal tubes.

I think I’m going to buy some more of them to use in my antenna setup, I can one as the vertical pole from the motor up to the antennas so that it won’t mess with anything.
I’m quite impressed with these. And they were a complete steal at $35 for two of them delivered.. I will probably buy more of them.

 

[DVB-S2]

The important thing is that the tubes are non-conductive. Do you have a way to check this?

I've never seen it, but they may be using something metallic in the construction if they clank.

 

[FTA4PA]

Here is the same item on Grainger. If someone knows what an Isopthalic Polyester Fire-Retardant Resin is they should be able to tell you if it's conductive or not: http://www.grainger.com/product/DYNAFORM-RD-Tube-4ATR3

 

[primestar31]

They are not electrically conductive: http://books.google.com/books?id=lK...tardant Resin electrically conductive&f=false

 

[FTA4PA]

Nice info primestar31! Looks like Dee_Ann was right about prying boulders with them - it says pound for pound they are stronger than steel!