Lifetime Television Severs Talks with Dish Network

[MikeD-C05]

I wonder if everyone would be so happy if Dish dropped ESPN and their respective channels? Funny that the womens channels are expendable but not the mens channels. I guess that Charlie figures the men are the ones paying for the sat bill , so they make the choices.


I too agree that Charlie should drop channels if the content providers decide to extort to much money. Forced bundeling is what causes most of the hikes in our sat/cable bills yearly.


I would like to see all Sports channels spun off into a pack ala carte. This would stop most of our yearly increases. Of course with Dish I am sure they would add it as another premium pack that would count toward the AEP/platinum programming pack. IF you don't sub to it you have to pay the dvr fees per receiver that would be more expensive then just adding the sports packs.


Does anyone else notice that Charlie has included a whole lot of fees now that force you to sub to the higher programming packs to escape the fees? IN February they will add a $6.00 mpeg4 fee if you don't sub to hd packs when you get the new mpeg4 hd receivers.


It is kind of ironic that Charlie is the one crying that forced bundeling should be eliminated and a mediater be used with binding arbitration for programming disputes , when he is forcing most of his subs to sub to higher priced programming packs to escape ALL OF THE EXTRA FEES.


Did you ever think that you would be paying over a $100.00 a month to watch tv?

 

[M Sparks]

But women are confined to only 2 or 3 special channels. I would be pissed too, Charlie!

Why are they "confined"? My wife never watches Lifetime, WE, or any of the other so called "women's" channels.

And I never watch sports, except Hockey, which she watches too. In fact, she watches ESPN more than I do, because she will watch Figure Skating.

And we watch porn equally. (Rarely, but equally.)

Maybe women should be more concerned about programmers who insist on re-enforcing the sexual stereotype that women only watch crap on TV.

 

[dlsnyder]

So all of this having been said, the next question is - when will Lifetime/LMN be back? I think this whole thing could be resolved if Lifetime made a deal with Dish basically throwing in their new channel for free. Even if they did this, Dish would still be the only winner. Sure Lifetime/LMN would have their Dish viewers back, but they are fooling themselves if they think they can actually earn a greater market share overall with the new channel. They will just be increasing the segmentation of the share they already have - overall viewership will remain about the same between the three channels.

 

[rjruby]

I asked my wife if she missed Lifetime.
She replied, "What's Lifetime?"

 

[Tvfan24/7]

I'm not a big fan of programming being dropped on any provider. But after Lifetime's actions and crybaby tactics, I fully support Charlie on this move. Even though I don't have Dish currently, programmers like Lifetime shouldn't just think that they can raise the channel's rates and just throw in a new channel which looks 99.9% repetitive.

Lifetime stands to lose more from this given that they now have 10-12 million less viewers.

 

[riffjim4069]

Think about it this way, it is in Lifetimes favor to negotiate a contract with Dish. It's also in Dish's favor not to have to pay for Lifetime at all. So who wins? Not Lifetime. Not the Customer. DISH WINS! Doesn't any one find it peculiar that Lifetime want's to continue negotiations and dish dismissed them?

I had to subscribe to basic cable so wife can get her Lifetime fix. Although I can afford to pay for both, I dropped down from AEP to AT60 because there is only so much I am willing to pay to watch TV. In my case: customer loses (no premium movies but pays the same price); E* loses almost $50; Lifetime loses big time; cable wins almost $50.

 

[Frostwolf]

I asked my wife if she missed Lifetime.
She replied, "What's Lifetime?"

Funny does your wife know my wife? She said the same thing!

Lifetime has refused to answer my email, so siyonara Lifetime.

Go Charlie Go, and Where's my NBR!

 

[twinrocks]

I am sorry......

So please stop this crap that Dish drops channels but doesn't add anything.
See ya
Tony

I am so sorry! I didn't know that Reality ceased operations.

But I don't see how anything Dish added is anything near Lifetime or LMN quality or geared towards women. Oxygen is a rather "racy" type of channel, and we do not like their content. Lifetime would never air this type of programming.

So I can watch the Movie channels and watch ANOTHER rerun of Cold Mountain, or countless other repeats of movies that make their rounds. At least Lifetime/LMN tried to have a few new movies on a month....and CLEAN programming. I don't care about anal vibrators, and I doubt Lifetime does either!! I am trying my best to remain nice here.

 

[BobMurdoch]

Reality went away on its own. OLN got cute and tried to renege on a deal that it signed by skimming off the content everyone else was seeing and substituting lower quality shows..... (Think if CBS yanked its primetime lineup and subsituted only Everybody Loves Raymond reruns in an effort to force them to redo the contract).

Lifetime overplayed its hand and then compounded the problem by refusing to negotiate openly once they took their argument to the media. E* offered to lift the gag order on negotiations and Lifetime balked by refusing to even acknowledge the request publicly. E* tried to appease viewers by adding Fine Living and Oxygen as well as making premium networks available for free until the situation stabilized. I bash E* as well when they trip up (this Mpeg4 HD transition for example), but they are much more blameless in this one. Don't forget we are all paying a premium price because satellite pays more for content on average vs. cable (they had to overpay to get providers to give them content when they started 10 years ago).

As fo rthe porn channels, they generate more revenue on a per channel than any of the other channels they offer. If they went away, a lot of overhead would have to be paid for in other ways, most likely through price increases elsewhere.

Mitch, I'm trying to figure out whether you are

a. a plant from Lifetime
b. someone taking a joke too far by beating a one note joke to death
c. someone easily susceptible to Jedi Mind Tricks who drank the Kool Aid that Lifetime fed you.

Which is it?

I keep waiting for him to peel back his face mission impossible style and see Roger's face.

 

[CPanther95]

I wonder if everyone would be so happy if Dish dropped ESPN and their respective channels? Funny that the womens channels are expendable but not the mens channels. I guess that Charlie figures the men are the ones paying for the sat bill , so they make the choices.
I too agree that Charlie should drop channels if the content providers decide to extort to much money. Forced bundeling is what causes most of the hikes in our sat/cable bills yearly.

You are answering your own question. It has nothing to do with "Men's channels" and "Women's channels" or which are more expendable. Lifetime isn't actually asking for anything out of the ordinary, so in that sense you could say that Lifetime is in the "right". However, the issue of bundling is what makes the "ordinary" unfair to cable and sat companies (more so, to consumers).

Charlie's opinion regarding ESPN is very clear, and if ESPN had the same limited clout as Lifetime, you'd likely see him drop ESPN at the next contract expiration - despite the fact that it is a "Men's channel". The tactics of AOL/Time Warner, Viacom, NBC/Universal, Disney - and to a lesser extent - News Corp., are very similar to what Lifetime is using, if not worse. That doesn't mean they are discriminating against Lifetime (or women), it only means that Lifetime is not in a position to force the same conditions as the big guys are.

If one of the mega companies start a women's channel - or purchase Lifetime and incorporate its channels into their bundled negotiations - E* will have those channels up at the next contract signing. They may bitch and moan the same as they did with Lifetime, but they will ultimately keep those channels in the lineup. Or as he showed with Viacom, it will be a short-lived yanking to extract the best terms possible - but it won't last.

Bottom line is 6 wrongs don't make a "right". They would be "in the right" to dump any networks that are forced through bundling. It just isn't economically wise to dump networks from those 5 companies - Lifetime OTOH, while they may be no different in their tactics - doesn't carry the same risk associated with doing the right thing.

 

[ScottChez]

I am dropping all the Premiem channels today. I had the Everything package.

Going to take the Savings to by a Netflix subscription so the Wife can Rent the Lifetime type of Movies, that she is missing from the Lifetime Movie channel.

Kind of a comprimise or Damage control I guess?

 

[jollygrunt]

mitchflorida - Let me know when you cancel DISH (if you have it). BTW, I watch Golden Girls on Lifetime and will miss it but "WAY TO GO CHARLIE" you did the right thing.

That's the only thing my mom and sister would've missed, but since I've bought them the Golden Girls DVD sets they're happy.

 

[boogerbear]

What Lifetime?

We are a two woman household.(It is just me and Mom) The only male in the house is Smudge the cat.(We love males, so don't get the idea that we are men haters or something.)
First off, Lifetime mostly showed reruns of old tv shows. Golden Girls, The Nanny, etc etc etc. Just how many times can you watch them? To begin with it was great to catch up on them, but now we have seen them all. The channel got old fast. Second, Mom and I both hated and never watched Lifetime Movies where 95% of those movies had a woman raped, physically abused, mentally abused, children abused, etc, for the first hour and a half, then she overcomes it all and kicks ass. Granted not a horrible idea, but just how many of those movies can you watch. Why would anyone want to watch such violence against women, over and over, unless you are really emotionally unbalanced for some reason or another? Third, I have not even missed Lifetime, neither has my Mother. Which kind of surprised me, because I thought I would. It really angered me when Lifetime tried to equate the fight for women's rights with a contract dispute with Charlie. How dare they insult such a noble cause by saying they were unfairly treated because they are a women's channel! Lets be totally honest here, Charlie is a ball breaker when it comes to negotiations with anyone. They were being treated just like any other company wanting to raise rates. They did horrible harm to the next business run by women who go to the negotiating table, because in the back of someone's mind will be "I wonder if they are gonna pull the woman's card?" That will be a great boost for work equality.
One other thing, there is no such thing as a man's channel and a woman's channel. I watch Spike to see CSI and Star Trek. I fast forward with my DVR thru the male enlargement commercials. I have female friends who love sports (I just watch the Olympics), and some of my male friends (well only about one) watches less sports than I do.

 

[CPanther95]

One other thing, there is no such thing as a man's channel and a woman's channel. I watch Spike to see CSI and Star Trek. I fast forward with my DVR thru the male enlargement commercials.

We all fast forward through the male enlargement/ED commercials.

 

[BobMurdoch]

This is Bob. No, not the Bob in the ED commercials,,,,

Lifetime may come back, but in the future when Disney (a 50% owner of Lifetime Networks) has to renew their channels and tries to lock renewal of THOSE channels to a renewal of the other channels. Lifetime by itself hurt, but didn't cripple E*. Losing the Disney Channels, ABC Family, ABC O & O markets, and ESPN might......

 

[tujucrue]

Cleverly put, but wrong . . . Lifetime wins if they can successfully extort Dish into paying a ridiculously huge price increase.

First, don't say that Dish is paying a ridiculous price. No one, other than Dish or Lifetime, knows for sure what the rate increase is. What you are hearing is propaganda from companies at war. Both are not to be believed. However, Dish's reputation is what leads me to believe that there is a serious issue here!

The few posts I've see here which try to suggest Dish is as fault have never attempted to justify a 175% rate increase over three years.

Rate increases are caused by a number of reasons. It's not just about getting more money for profitability. You have to pay for royalties, sets, insurance, unions, and more. No matter how nice Bea Arthur is, she won't work for free. The cost of advertising on a network like Lifetime won't cover the costs of the programs. It helps subsidize some of the networks cost but won't cover the whole spectrum. Also, lets not forget that the company has to pay to get the signal to your house. Satellite signals don't come cheap. They don't just send tapes by airmail to dish.

If you don't like a 125% increase then write to the Actor unions that collect royalties, write to crew unions that help make the show, write to the FCC who collects money for the spectrum that Lifetime uses, etc.

My point is, it's not a simple as every one thinks it is. Because Lifetime is loosing 12 million subs, the company is going to be loosing out financially. No company likes to lose money. Dish's loses will me narrower compared to Lifetime. Again, who wins and looses.

 

[jeffwtux]

So all of this having been said, the next question is - when will Lifetime/LMN be back? I think this whole thing could be resolved if Lifetime made a deal with Dish basically throwing in their new channel for free. Even if they did this, Dish would still be the only winner. Sure Lifetime/LMN would have their Dish viewers back, but they are fooling themselves if they think they can actually earn a greater market share overall with the new channel. They will just be increasing the segmentation of the share they already have - overall viewership will remain about the same between the three channels.

Again, the biggest clear winner from this dispute is TimeWarner and Oxygen.

 

[bgilga]

Dish's rates are higher than Directv, but then again we don't get the bingo channell either. E*'s problem is they have no programming to offer. Disney might pull all their stations. Someone said Lifetime needs Dish more than Dish needs Lifetime. Well Dish needs Disney more than Disney needs Dish. Dish better hook up with someone soon. Viacom might be the answer. A pissing contest with Disney, News Corp., or Time Warner will be the end of Dish. Imagine no CNN, TBS, or TNT. Would Charlie be the hero then?

 

[samatha6]

Folks I have said it before and I will say it again, if Lifetime were offering them Lifetime and Lifetime Movie Network they would be on Dish, the key to this is Lifetime wants to throw in a third channel "Lifetime Real Women" to the mix, when they add that channel in then the costs go up 76% over a three year period.
If Lifetime were serious about wanting women to see its programming it would drop the requirement for Dish to carry the third Lifetime Channel and we would see Lifetime back on Dish.

I agree. But what worries me Scott is if Disney owned lifetime will bundle lifetime channels with all the other Disney channels forcing Charlie to pay exorbitant carriage fees when those other channels are up for contract renewal. Personally, I think bundling has been extorting money from us for years. Unlike what the industry claims.. I don't buy the fact that a la carte will increase content fees.. What it will do is motivate providers to lower carriage fees so people will sub to them... it also would mean many redundant channels would go away.. which is a GOOD thing.. And lastly, it would actually motivate content providers to improve the actual content.. instead of just getting their extorted carriages while hiding behind bundles.. locked to other popular channels.
Dish won this battle but in my view is losing the war. Disney type conglomerates have been and will continue to use their bundling power to extort more and more. I personally hope that the FCC and congress allow for a la carte to begin. But if this continues.. i think DBS/CABLE will eventually start hitting pain thresholds for many.. and they will just drop services. That already happened with me with comcast.. Their expanded went to over 53 dollars.. and I dropped. For me, 50 dollars is the max I am willing to pay for DBS now.. But I can see even the most basic packages hitting 60 dollars in a few years time if something is not done with how content providers are extorting with bundling models.

And I hate to say this.. but I also think the carriages should be regulated. Because carriage is not equal. Disney could easily want double carriage from Dish for lifetime over what comcast pays.. just because they don't like dish etc... or because they don't take another channel.. even though it may not be locked into that channel... Too often now you might say that extortion and blackmail are tools for carriage negotiation. And by the very difinition of extortion and blackmail.. by companies like Disney, I would say that government intervention may need to come to play. Its not like this industry is run by free market forces and is price driven etc... Its not. Because if it were.. there would not be any extortion or blackmail during contract negotiations for channels on cable/dbs.

I think in the end.. greedy content providers will push prices to the point that the FCC etc.. will step in. A few years back.. they put it aside.. but continual rate hikes.. and carriage bundling is getting more attention again by the feds and a la carte is getting another look.

 

[Stargazer]

I will say what I have said before. Dish not keeping Lifetime and LMN because of them wanting an increase and Dish saying that they would have to increase rates even more is one thing, but to have the competition have the same price on programming when their rates increase as what Dish does while keeping Lifetime and LMN is another. Consumers dont care what kind of deals the companies make, they care what the better deal is for them. Lifetime knows this. DirecTv even has Lifetime Real Women to boot. The consumers are not going to see the dropping of Lifetime and LMN as a benefit to them if their prices are going to increase anyways and if they are adding channels to replace them that DirecTv already had. You would have to add channels that DirecTv does not have to replace them with. As a matter of fact you cannot receive the channel that supposedly replaced it unless you upgrade your package now beyond AT60.