I wonder what women think of this move I bet that they will miss it the most.
I wish they would get rid ESPN that sucker cost tons I here
I wish they would get rid ESPN that sucker cost tons I here
Lifetime Television Severs Talks with Dish Network
- Thread starter Scott Greczkowski
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As posted here: http://www.tvweek.com/ Lifetime is claiming they need what they are asking for or else they cannot produce original programming. The credibility problem for them is:
1. Costs to Lifetime are zip, zilch, zero to be seen on Dish. With that in mind, they could have allowed (and still could) Dish to carry them for awhile and continue to talk. As it is now, they get NO money from dish towards their "orignal programming," instead of a getting a large portion of what they want.
2. If they don't settle, are they saying there will be no or little original programming? Will they have to charge even more to the other carriers? If these things don't come to pass, then their crying for such a high increase and demand to have Dish carry their new channel was no more than a shakedown.
1. Costs to Lifetime are zip, zilch, zero to be seen on Dish. With that in mind, they could have allowed (and still could) Dish to carry them for awhile and continue to talk. As it is now, they get NO money from dish towards their "orignal programming," instead of a getting a large portion of what they want.
2. If they don't settle, are they saying there will be no or little original programming? Will they have to charge even more to the other carriers? If these things don't come to pass, then their crying for such a high increase and demand to have Dish carry their new channel was no more than a shakedown.
How much will Lifetime lose
How much do you think Lifetime will lose in ad revenue, without 10 million(I know it is up to 12, but not sure how many of us get Lifetime) possible viewers?
Don't they have a lot more to lose than Dish?
How much do you think Lifetime will lose in ad revenue, without 10 million(I know it is up to 12, but not sure how many of us get Lifetime) possible viewers?
Don't they have a lot more to lose than Dish?
Ok just a few things:
1) It's obvious what's happened: Dish said we only want Lifetime and Lifetime only, not LMN or Real Women, and Lifetime said no way so Dish said drop dead.
2) What is there "compelling" left that Dish doesn't carry to replace this with?
3) Lifetime says if they accepted Dish's offer, it would "cripple" their ability to make movies and originals, well now they are getting $0 from Dish, how is Lifetime better off? Lifetime has no ground to stand on here.
1) It's obvious what's happened: Dish said we only want Lifetime and Lifetime only, not LMN or Real Women, and Lifetime said no way so Dish said drop dead.
2) What is there "compelling" left that Dish doesn't carry to replace this with?
3) Lifetime says if they accepted Dish's offer, it would "cripple" their ability to make movies and originals, well now they are getting $0 from Dish, how is Lifetime better off? Lifetime has no ground to stand on here.
boogerbear said:
Absolutely, they have lost about 1/6th of their viewing audience and LMN has probably lost 1/4. Lifetime wouldn't be pressuring Dish so hard with the "stop discriminating against women" if they weren't hurting badly financially due to this. If Dish was hurting financially over this, LMN and Lifetime would have been back a day after they were shut off.
Chris Walker said:
Hence all the negative Dish spin from Lifetime. I've keep up with this pretty good from day one and this is all I can come up with. Lifetime probably wanted a modest increase for Lifetime and a modest increase for LMN and then thru LRW into the mix with a cost to carry, this is probably what thru the increase numbers higher than what Dish wanted to pay. Lifetime probably won't do the deal without LRW because they want to get it out there, and Dish doesn't want it. Lifetime gambled with Dish, bluffed, then lost.
Dish will loose some subs over this, but Lifetime is the one going to lose big.
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One big winner
The biggest winner here is Oxygen. They finally made a deal with Dish and up their viewer-ship, and their ad revenue. Lifetime lost viewers, lowering the difference of subscribers between the two. Oxygen can now afford new content which will only increase actual viewer-ship.
I wonder if Oxygen sent Lifetime a thank you note. I really don't believe that we would have ever had Oxygen on Dish without this disagreement.
The biggest winner here is Oxygen. They finally made a deal with Dish and up their viewer-ship, and their ad revenue. Lifetime lost viewers, lowering the difference of subscribers between the two. Oxygen can now afford new content which will only increase actual viewer-ship.
I wonder if Oxygen sent Lifetime a thank you note. I really don't believe that we would have ever had Oxygen on Dish without this disagreement.
boogerbear said:
Agreed, and I have watched Oxygen more in the past hour than I have watched Lifetime in years. Gotta love Dr. Sue's review of anal vibrators, can't get that type of laughs on Lifetime :haha
twinrocks said:Thank you for pointing that out! Dish lost several channels, and have replaced them with either nothing, or lower quality channels. OLN was lost, Reality was lost, and now Lifetime and LMN.
The thing is we don't KNOW the real facts and negotiations, we can only guess. I don't believe a word either side is telling us. All I know is I pay the same, get less, and have no imput.
Okay, let me put a stop to this misconception:
Channels removed from Dish in 2005/06:
Nationally:
Basic
----AT Packages
Bingo TV 12/8/05 (All Subs) (Out of business)
Lifetime 12/31/05 (AT60) (Contract Dispute)
Lifetime Movie Network 12/30/05 (AT120) (Contract Dispute)
OLN 10/26/05 (AT180) (Contract Dispute)
Reality TV (10/5/05)(Channel ceased operations in US and some programming bought by Fox Reality) (AT180)
----Dish Latino Packages
XHDF TV 13(Azteca Mexico) (DishLatino) (Contactual agreement at the insistance of Azteca)
International
MBN (Korea) 11/9/05
SBS Korea (10/2/05)
BVN TV (Dutch Channel)
Regionally
Empire Sports (Channel Ceased Operations 1/21/05)
Fox Sports Pittsburgh 2 (Upstate NY) (Added earlier in the year)
Daystar National in cities with affiliates
Channels added 2005/06
Nationally
Basic...
-----AT Packages
The Pentagon Channel (AT60)
Holistic Television Network (AT60)
NFL Network (AT120)
Oxygen (AT120)
BBC Radio 1 (AT 120)
College Sports TV (AT180)
International Music Feed (IMF) (AT180)
ESPN U (AT180)
Fox Reality Channel (AT180)
Fine Living (AT180)
KBS World (international channel available to all with a dish at 121
-----Dish Latino
Azteca America (Dish Latino)
ESPN Deportes (Dish Latino--espn was removed from DL at the same time but still available in AT packages)
Canal Uno (Dish Latino)
Television Dominicana (Dish Latino)
(La Academia is a temporary PPV channel)
HD Channels:
9470 RAVE
9471 Equator
9472 Gallery
9474 Animania
9476 RUSH
9478 ULTRA
9479 Guy TV
9480 Majestic
9481 Monster HD
9482 HD News
NFLHD (part-time channel)
Internationals
American Desi, a South Asian channel
South Asia World
KINO, Polish channel
Sirius Music Channel Shade 45
Asia FM
ProSieben
RAI Radio
African Broadcasting Network
Video Italia
Leonardo World
Bridges
Telesud
Zee TV Guijurat
Alpha Punjabi
Trace TV
Sahara
Melody Arabia
Alter, a Greek channel
Radio Italia
Radio Italia Anni 60
Aajtak (India News Channel)
Headlines Today from India
JSTV (Korea)
WOWTV
B4U Music
Abu Dhabi TV
Subscription Business Channels
Traders Television Network (hese guys will buy you a superdish if you subscribe)
CLH
Regionally
FOXP2 (Upstate NY) removed later in the year
CSN Chicago
MSG Network (Upstate NY)
Locals
KRWG TV 22, PBS affiliate from Las Cruses, NM
KQUP, UPN affiliate in the Spokane TV Market
WSRE PBS Mobile, AL
WBMM Daystar affiliate Tuskegee
Gainesville Florida locals
WMPN PBS (for Merridian, MS)
WEVU-CA 4 UPN Ft. Myers, FL
KSWOD Telemundo Wichita Falls
KMOH, Spanish Independent station in Phoenix, AZ
WBIF UPN in Panama City, FL
WZRB UPN in Columbia, SC
Abilene / Sweetwater ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox and Telemundo
WTVY CBS in Dothan available to Panama City
WLAE PBS in New Orleans
Billings Montana locals
WTJR religious channel in Quincy, IL
KSCE TV 38, Religious TV station from El Paso
Rapid City, SD local ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox and PBS
Twin Falls, ID local ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox and PBS
Eirie, PA locals
WMUR TV 9 Manchester, NH is now available to Boston Area
KDUH, ABC affiliate in Scotts Bluff, NE (Cheyenne, WY TV market)
KKJB America One affiliate in Boise Idaho
WSJP and WPRU channels 7787 and 7788 are now available to Puerto Rico
KPCB TV 17 (TCN) Snyder, TX (Abilene / Sweetwater TV market)
WVUT TV 22 (PBS Vincennes, IN)
Fairbanks, AK locals
WYDN (Daystar) Boston area
Bismarck, ND local NBC and PBS
Casper, Wyoming local ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, PBS
8299 Gavel-to-Gavel Alaska is now available in the Fairbanks TV Market
Juneau, AK local ABC, NBC, Fox, PBS and AK Gavel-To-Gavel
Great Falls, MT locals
San Angelo locals
WAHU TV 27 in Charlottesville
WCTV Thomasville (Tallahassee) is now available (ANON) to "Significantly Viewed" areas in the Albany, GA
WJLA, WUSA and WRC Washington, DC are now available (ANON) to "significantly viewed" areas in the Baltimore area
WRTV and WTHR from Indianapolis are now available to "significantly viewed" areas in the Terre Haute TV market
KTBS and KMSS from Shreveport, LA TV market are now available to "significantly viewed" areas in the Tyler,TX TV market
KSAT and KENS from San Antonio, TX TV market are now available to "significantly viewed" areas in the Austin TV market
WLII channel 11 Univision in Puerto Rico
Jackson, MS ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox and WB+ national PBS (6217-6221 and 6210) are now available in Wilkinson and Amite counties in Mississippi
WCYBD channel 7619 (WB) TriCities
WTOKD channel 9305 (Fox) Meridian, MS
7173 WPXX,50 "i" Mempnis
7196 KXNE,19 PBS Sioux City, IA
7244 ,KTAS,33 Telemundo Santa Barbara, CA
7297 WUND,2 PBS/UNCTV (Edenton, NC) Norfolk, VA
7322 WOUB,20 PBS (Athens. OH) Huntington/Charleston, WV
7358 WHBR,33 CTN (Pensacola) Mobile, AL (also reported by GS)
7457 KNLJ,25 Rel Columbia, MO
7472 WKBS,47 Cornerstone Johnstown/Altoona, PA
7515 WHTV,18 UPN Lansing, MI
7589 KCOS,13 PBS El Paso
7607 KQIN,36 PBS Davenport
7697 WPXL,26 "I" New Orleans
7815 KMCT,39 Rel Monroe,LA
7881 WGNM,64 UPN Macon, GA
7944 KPTB,16 Rel. Lubbock, TX
8142 WQEX,16 America's Store. Pittsburgh, PA
8157 WTVE,51 Ind, Philadelphia. PA
8278 WVEN,26 Univision, Orlando, FL
8284 WLCB,45 FamilyNet, Orlando, FL
8309 WATC,57 FamilyNet, Atlanta, GA
8361 WPTO,14 PBS (Oxford) Cincinnati, OH
8412 KLDT,55 Ind. Dallas, TX
8416 KPXD,68 "i" Dallas
8462 WTIU,30 PBS (Bloomington) Indianapolis
8623 KHCV,45 ShopAtHome Seattle, WA
8640 KTFK,64 Telefutura Sacramentio, CA
8642 KSPX,29 "i" Sacramentio, CA
8785 WWDP,46 ShopNBC Boston, MA
8797 KUSI,51 Ind, San Diego
8845 WGEN,8 Ind, (Key West) Miami
8930 KRSC,35 Edu Tulsa, OK
8957 KUVE,46 Univision Tucson, AZ
8976 KNXT,49 Rel, SP, Fresno, CA
8991 KNCT,46 PBS Waco, TX
9022 WGCB,49 Rel, Harrisburgh, PA
9038 KBLR,39 Telemundo, Las Vegas, NV
9117 KFPX,39 "i" Des Moines, IA
9133 WNYB,26 TCT Buffalo, NY
9179 KGPX,34 "i" Spokane, WA
9194 KSMS,67 Univision, Monterey, CA
9201 WHDF,15 UPN Huntsville, AL
9239 KSMN,20 PBS (Worthington, MN) Sioux Falls, SD
9264 WSIU,8 PBS, Paducah, KY
9318 WVLR,48 CTN Knoxcille, TN
KUPT LP 14 in the Lubbock TV market UPN
WVLR TV in the Knoxville area
KPXG, channel 22 in Portland Oregon
WJAN-CA 41, in the Miami area
--------------------------
So please stop this crap that Dish drops channels but doesn't add anything.
See ya
Tony
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Think about it this way, it is in Lifetimes favor to negotiate a contract with Dish. It's also in Dish's favor not to have to pay for Lifetime at all. So who wins? Not Lifetime. Not the Customer. DISH WINS! Doesn't any one find it peculiar that Lifetime want's to continue negotiations and dish dismissed them?
I found it interesting that Lifetime is saying that the price they wanted from Dish was comparable to WHAT IT BELIEVES Dish is paying for similar channels. NOT what others are paying. I'd love to know how much they`re charging D*! (And I bet it's less than even what E* WAS paying. Anyway, Lifetime is the big loser in this. Not only do they lose a big chunk of income from Charlie, they also have to give rebates to advertisers because they just lost a big percentage of viewers! I say good to Charlie!
I think it's great. The prices of the same thing (or worse product) can't keep going up forever. Inflation or not, it's just not right.
Ultimately I don't think we should keep paying more for channels that become lame ducks. If they're charging more and giving less "fresh" content, why should we have to pay for them? That's not to say a channel should be dumping all their re-runs in exchange for fresh stuff, but they should be striving to have just as much new GREAT stuff as they have old GREAT stuff that made them popular in the first place.
For some reason Lifetime comes out to me as a lame duck channel, I'd love to be proven wrong but when in defense of rate increases, they brought out their "guns" -- women's activists groups and deals with cable companies. Why couldn't they try to come up with a reason that their rate increase was worth it?
Was it? Lifetime doesn't seem to say so. Their tactics sounded a little more like blackmail and extortion, not just to E* but to us. Hey lifetime, why don't you tell us why your channel is suddenly worth more than it was last year?
Do I expect more channels to leave E*? Maybe, it really depends. If it's more channels like Lifetime that back themselves up with brute force rather than good reasons, why not?
If say, ESPN had bunches of great quality alternatives out there, and they demanded a rate hike but then when E* questioned it, they went brute force and said they'd raise hell, why keep em? If some other broadcast company could do just as good a job for less? Bring em on!
Ultimately I don't think we should keep paying more for channels that become lame ducks. If they're charging more and giving less "fresh" content, why should we have to pay for them? That's not to say a channel should be dumping all their re-runs in exchange for fresh stuff, but they should be striving to have just as much new GREAT stuff as they have old GREAT stuff that made them popular in the first place.
For some reason Lifetime comes out to me as a lame duck channel, I'd love to be proven wrong but when in defense of rate increases, they brought out their "guns" -- women's activists groups and deals with cable companies. Why couldn't they try to come up with a reason that their rate increase was worth it?
Was it? Lifetime doesn't seem to say so. Their tactics sounded a little more like blackmail and extortion, not just to E* but to us. Hey lifetime, why don't you tell us why your channel is suddenly worth more than it was last year?
Do I expect more channels to leave E*? Maybe, it really depends. If it's more channels like Lifetime that back themselves up with brute force rather than good reasons, why not?
If say, ESPN had bunches of great quality alternatives out there, and they demanded a rate hike but then when E* questioned it, they went brute force and said they'd raise hell, why keep em? If some other broadcast company could do just as good a job for less? Bring em on!
I think Charlie is as fault here. Lifetime was able to reach agreements with everyone else except Dish. I have Directv and I get the Lifetime channels, I don't watch them, but I get them. What I do watch is hockey on OLN. I really enjoy OLN's NHL in HD. Dish doesn't have OLN anymore. Why? Charlie would not pay. Directv does. OLN is owned by Comcast. Is there a bigger blood feud in TV out there worse than Directv vs Comcast. Comcast-Phila., MASN, NFL ST. They have been brawling about these chanels for years, but they can negotiate OLN on Directv, but Dish can't. If I am not mistaken, I have these channels and pay less per month than a Dish subscriber, now that is nuts.
I am perfectly content to let Dish dump a few channels from time to time in favor of aggressive contract negotiations! Not only does that help keep rates down by avoiding ridiculous increases like the one Lifetime was asking for, but it sends a strong message to other networks who think they might be able to pull off something like that.
In the meantime, excellent job Dish! And don't let the door hit you on the way out Lifetime!!
Cleverly put, but wrong . . . Lifetime wins if they can successfully extort Dish into paying a ridiculously huge price increase. They were betting on a popular Dish customer outcry and political backlash to be successful, and they guessed wrong. The few posts I've see here which try to suggest Dish is as fault have never attempted to justify a 175% rate increase over three years. Your argument, tujucrue, might work some if you could address that one. By the way, doesn't Lifetime sell commercial time too? Why can't the just raise their rates for commercials? You die hard Lifetime fans might not like the answer to that one if you ponder it a bit.tujucrue said:
In the meantime, excellent job Dish! And don't let the door hit you on the way out Lifetime!!
OoTLink said:
This was a excellent post, well said and I agree 100% IMHO Lifetime got what it deserved, trust me Lifetime needs Dish more than Dish needs Lifetime.
bgilga said:
How many E* owned or co-owned networks does Comcast carry? How many NewsCorp channels does Comcast carry?
D* may fight like hell to get access to Comcast owned RSNs, and to get reasonable pricing for the INHD channels - but News Corp will make sure that D* and Comcast continue to scratch each other's backs for all the standard cable nets.
Folks I have said it before and I will say it again, if Lifetime were offering them Lifetime and Lifetime Movie Network they would be on Dish, the key to this is Lifetime wants to throw in a third channel "Lifetime Real Women" to the mix, when they add that channel in then the costs go up 76% over a three year period.
If Lifetime were serious about wanting women to see its programming it would drop the requirement for Dish to carry the third Lifetime Channel and we would see Lifetime back on Dish.
If Lifetime were serious about wanting women to see its programming it would drop the requirement for Dish to carry the third Lifetime Channel and we would see Lifetime back on Dish.
