Hoa

[Lord_Vader]

I've had DISH installed for about 2 years now. My HOA finally decided to send me a letter saying that I never "applied" for "permission" to install a DISH on my property. To be honest, I didn't know that I had to.

Now they are asking for me to fill out the application, submit photos and a survey showing where I "plan to install the DISH" along with a $50 fee.

I was looking around and found a post with the link from the FCC. FCC Fact Sheet on Placement of Antennas

From reading this, it seems to me I should politely tell them they don't have the authority to require me to do this.

Thoughts / advice?

TIA

 

[8bitbytes]

FCC Fact Sheet on Placement of Antennas

You could offer to paint the dish to blend better with your HOA color scheme or consider a less exposed but fully functional mounting location but they may not like either of these options. The FCC regulations should be clear about what you can and cannot do and what they can and cannot do in that case.

 

[Tony S]

Yes, you are correct; they do not have the authority to require you to ask permission to install your dish. To quote from the FCC link that you provided: "For example, local regulations that require a person to obtain a permit or approval prior to installation create unreasonable delay and are generally prohibited".

You can tell them to go pound sand, but sometimes it is better to just play along with them so they do not "black list" you. In any case they cannot prevent you from installing the dish as long as you meet the "property that you own or rent and that is within your exclusive use or control" rule.

 

[jayn_j]

Yep, you are absolutely in the clear. Send them that sheet and suggest their lawyer review it before they take further action.

They have no leg to stand on and are simply trying to rule through intimidation.

 

[KE4EST]

Yes print that sheet out and take it too them, and yeah like you said be very nice about it.

 

[rcwilcox]

Plus the $50 fee is a no-no can't add to the costs. Be polite but firm give em copies and politely let them know if the persist you will involve the FCC and then do it if they still come after you. The FCC website has several examples of things the HOA can and can't do. Be sure where you are putting it you can put it ie no area controlled by HOA.

 

[noremac]

The advice above is all good, but assumes that you own the outside of your house/building/roof. If, on the other hand, you own your dwelling in a condominium association, your rights are more limited.

 

[hemway]

As a former president and vice-president of a couple of different HOA's in the greater Phoenix area, I've had to deal with this subject both as a member of the board and as a member of the association.

You need to read the CC&R's and any other association documents you were given when you purchased your home because if the laws in your state are anything like they are here in AZ, when you purchased your home you entered into an agreement to abide by the rules of the association. If they require that you submit a request to install you must follow the requirements. In the document you referenced it states:

"The rule allows local governments, community associations and landlords to enforce restrictions that do not impair the installation, maintenance or use of the types of antennas described above, as well as restrictions needed for safety or historic preservation."

According to an association lawyer we checked with, if the association rules require that a homeowner get association approval before adding or making a change to your home, the association can require a request be submitted. Most associations won’t give you any problems with installing the dish because of the rule.

In your case, what is probably happening is the association’s management company, if you use one, is auditing the association to make sure everyone is following the rules and will ask a members to submit a request for any changes they made, something that according to the rules you should have done, so all homeowners are in compliance with the rules. It is done to protect them and you. This way they can't be accused of randomly enforcing the rules. I know first hand because they did it to me when I was on the board.

Most associations won't mess with saying no to any antenna requests that meet the limitations in your document. They are just doing it to keep all of the records up to date and everyone in compliance with the rules.

With that said, there are some associations out there that are like the Gestapo. If you have one of those you need to do what I did and get involved in the association and fight to take your association back.

 

[Slamminc11]

Tell 'em to kiss your ass! HOA's are Nazi's, the whole lot of em!

 

[mperdue]

Tell 'em to kiss your ass! HOA's are Nazi's, the whole lot of em!

:up:up:up

 

[mixjock]

1. I Hate HOA's
2. Why should you as the customer bow down to their rules, especially when they violate FCC rules.
3. File a complaint with the FCC against the HOA for violating FCC rules. I'm sure some of the do gooders in the HOA are the same ones that spend time monitoring radio stations to hear what they find offensive and file complaints against said station.
4. Really tick them off and put up a US flag.

 

[lakebum431]

You need to read the CC&R's and any other association documents you were given when you purchased your home because if the laws in your state are anything like they are here in AZ, when you purchased your home you entered into an agreement to abide by the rules of the association. If they require that you submit a request to install you must follow the requirements. In the document you referenced it states:

"The rule allows local governments, community associations and landlords to enforce restrictions that do not impair the installation, maintenance or use of the types of antennas described above, as well as restrictions needed for safety or historic preservation."

According to an association lawyer we checked with, if the association rules require that a homeowner get association approval before adding or making a change to your home, the association can require a request be submitted. Most associations won’t give you any problems with installing the dish because of the rule.

That is incorrect. There have been many HOAs that have lost big on this over and over again. They cannot require you to do anything including apply. They can however say that you dish is mounted in an unsafe location and request you to prove that it is not. But that is the extent of their authority. FCC Rule trumps HOA rule every single time.

 

[okiekevn]

id offer to file the permit and show them the fcc rule sheet. as for the 50.00 filing fee, i would politley suggest that they go pound sand. (anyone in here listen to Bill Handel on the Law? just wondering from the few pund sand references. )

 

[Claude Greiner]

Personally if I was in your situation, I would print the FCC guidelines for placement of Dish antennas, highlight the sections that apply to your situation and kindly take it over to the HOA and tell them to F*** OFF.

Legally Home Owners associations can't get away with this crap, but they generally do because people are afraid to stand up to them and make a stink over it, because if they do they somehow think the HOA is going to kick them out of their home or take them to court and sue them for lots of money.

Over a satellite Dish, C'mon!

I talk to hundreds of potential customers every year and I run into this crap all the time.

The HOA's that truely piss me off are the ones who want a little drawing and a map of where the Dish is going to be placed with the exact location, Height, Color and weight of the Dish. Seriously, who cares! The Dish is Grey in color and the Dish can either be seen from the Street or it can't be seen from the street!

Once every few months I get a customer ask me to do this for them, and simply refuse to do it. I send them a copy of the FCC ruling and tell them to take it up with their HOA since what they are doing is illegal.

No way in going to get myself in a situation where if the hole aint exactly where I said and is off by a few inches from where I said it would be on a map they are going to try to waste my time by making me come out and move it

 

[Agonizing Fury]

Despite the fact that, as everyone here mentioned, the law is on your side, I would tread carefully depending on your HOA. Suggesting that they "pound sand" or "F*** off" could lead to some real problems with your HOA. Another installer that I know installed a dish where the HOA didn't like it. The HOA complained, the customer complained, and was provided the FCC fact sheet referenced by everyone here. The HOA reluctantly backed off on the dish situation as required by law. However, the law did not prevent the HOA from taking the actions it took next. Basically, they found every other thing they could possibly fine the customer for (including taking measurements of the customers grass on a daily basis) and essentially legally harassing the customer until they finally paid the disco fee and removed the dish.

That being said I would absolutely refuse to pay any type of "filing fee" that they are requesting as this would be a direct violation of the FCC ruling. To the best of my knowledge, the FCC ruling, does not restrict a requirement to file an application, however, they cannot require that you wait until said application is approved to begin the installation (per the section that states that an HOA cannot delay the installation).

 

[DishSubLA]

As a former president and vice-president of a couple of different HOA's in the greater Phoenix area, I've had to deal with this subject both as a member of the board and as a member of the association.

You need to read the CC&R's and any other association documents you were given when you purchased your home because if the laws in your state are anything like they are here in AZ, when you purchased your home you entered into an agreement to abide by the rules of the association. If they require that you submit a request to install you must follow the requirements. In the document you referenced it states:

"The rule allows local governments, community associations and landlords to enforce restrictions that do not impair the installation, maintenance or use of the types of antennas described above, as well as restrictions needed for safety or historic preservation."

According to an association lawyer we checked with, if the association rules require that a homeowner get association approval before adding or making a change to your home, the association can require a request be submitted. Most associations won’t give you any problems with installing the dish because of the rule.

In your case, what is probably happening is the association’s management company, if you use one, is auditing the association to make sure everyone is following the rules and will ask a members to submit a request for any changes they made, something that according to the rules you should have done, so all homeowners are in compliance with the rules. It is done to protect them and you. This way they can't be accused of randomly enforcing the rules. I know first hand because they did it to me when I was on the board.

Most associations won't mess with saying no to any antenna requests that meet the limitations in your document. They are just doing it to keep all of the records up to date and everyone in compliance with the rules.

With that said, there are some associations out there that are like the Gestapo. If you have one of those you need to do what I did and get involved in the association and fight to take your association back.

UH, Federal law trumps even Arizona law, as it does the remaining 49 states. That is why the Satellite, cable, and a host of other companies get law passed through our U.S. Congress, and since telecommunications is regulated ONLY by the Federal government, the FCC, a Federal agency, is the only authority in these matters. SOOORRRRYYYY! There are a lot of lawyers who are out of their depth regarding FCC regulations and how laws relating to them apply. Do consult such an attorney who is expert in the very arcane Federal regulation of telecommunications. Reasons of SAFETY and HISTORICAL PRESERVATION are the only 2 reasons any HOA has a chance at telling a member where to put the dish.

 

[IrishBrewer]

Despite the fact that, as everyone here mentioned, the law is on your side, I would tread carefully depending on your HOA. Suggesting that they "pound sand" or "F*** off" could lead to some real problems with your HOA. Another installer that I know installed a dish where the HOA didn't like it. The HOA complained, the customer complained, and was provided the FCC fact sheet referenced by everyone here. The HOA reluctantly backed off on the dish situation as required by law. However, the law did not prevent the HOA from taking the actions it took next. Basically, they found every other thing they could possibly fine the customer for (including taking measurements of the customers grass on a daily basis) and essentially legally harassing the customer until they finally paid the disco fee and removed the dish.

I would think that an HOA that singles out one homeowner as a form of retribution because they lost the FCC/Dish battle would be opening themselves up to all kinds of legal problems. If they were just measuring one person's lawn height but not others and such activities occured after they got "FCC'd," it would be quite obvious to most judges what was going on. If I were on the board of an HOA, I would be dead set against any such action because it would open up the association to all kinds of costly litigation.

 

[Fredinva]

After you tell 'em to "pound sand", put up a 10 foot OTA antenna on your chimney!

fred

 

[GVG]

My HOA tried to do the same thing. 5 years after my first dish was installed they told me to take it down, that they dont allow antennas, but I could "apply" for a waiver. I printed out the FCC fact sheet, and left a copy on the presidents door step and sent a copy to the management company. I never heard from them again.

I now proudly have 2 dishes on my roof. Oh and half the homes in my developement have dishes now too. So much for their "we dont allow antennas rules"

 

[hemway]

Please read what I said. If an association you joined when you purchased your home thus agreeing to follow their rules, has a rule that requires you to seek approval, can enforce that rule. What they can't enforce is saying no to your request. They can try to tell you to hide your dish and you can tell them to pound sand.

It's easy for people who don't live in associations to say "tell them to go fu*k themselves" but until you buy a house in an association and read the fine print, you don't understand. I was like that until I moved to AZ and found out the hard way. Associations are small governments and in most states are recognizes as that.