Hoak Media stations off Dish amid dispute

[sam_gordon]

That's a tired old argument. So Dish starts paying that one station .15 or .25 a subscriber, then every other station wants that deal. Suddenly they are paying that for 10-15-20 stations in one market. Factor in the costs of the pop, the fiber to get the signal from the pops to the uplink facilities, and the uplink facilities that are solely for spotbeam locals and Dish/Directv is going deep in the hole. Suddenly locals are $10 or $15 a month for consumers, so Dish/Directv can cover the costs. They should be FREE to providers since they are basically insuring a usable signal to everyone in the dma, which the broadcasters sure can't do. I know there is a substantial cost involved for Dish/Directv to get usuable signals from the dma to the uplink facilities to the sats and back down to us, so I don't mind a token fee to cover that cost of business, but that is it. This era of double dipping with ads, paid programming and retransmission fees really needs to end. Broadcasters should get back to serving the public interests.

So why not complain about ESPN, USA, ABC Family, Disney, etc, etc, etc. They ALL do the same thing. They charge the cable satellite providers (MUCH more so than ANY locals) and they have ads in their programming. Isn't that the "double dipping" you're referring to? So why is it OK for these networks to do it?

And it's the same argument regarding "local broadcasters need satellite/cable to reach more viewers". Yes, MORE people can watch OTA because of cable/sat. BUT...
1) If cable/sat went away, people (not all, but MOST) could still get OTA. You can't say the same for the other networks (ESPN, Disney, etc).
2) MOST people don't NEED cable/sat to get their locals. Yes, some MUST. But I'm willing to wager the MAJORITY of viewers CAN pick up OTA. Having them on cable/sat is a convenience. Remember, OTA has been around a LOT longer than cable. It wouldn't have survived if cable/sat were NEEDED to reach viewers.

Also, please tell me how many markets have 10, much less 15 or 20 stations. Come on, there are only 210. Surely you know how many have that many stations, otherwise you wouldn't make the claim like it would affect EVERYONE.

ETA: My argument was the Dish was "spinning" the facts to make them sound better. I agree stations do the same thing (what does "fair market value" mean?). I guess you think (since my argument is "old & tired") that Dish DOESN'T spin things to make themselves sound better?

 

[osu1991]

So why not complain about ESPN, USA, ABC Family, Disney, etc, etc, etc. They ALL do the same thing. They charge the cable satellite providers (MUCH more so than ANY locals) and they have ads in their programming. Isn't that the "double dipping" you're referring to? So why is it OK for these networks to do it?

And it's the same argument regarding "local broadcasters need satellite/cable to reach more viewers". Yes, MORE people can watch OTA because of cable/sat. BUT...
1) If cable/sat went away, people (not all, but MOST) could still get OTA. You can't say the same for the other networks (ESPN, Disney, etc).
2) MOST people don't NEED cable/sat to get their locals. Yes, some MUST. But I'm willing to wager the MAJORITY of viewers CAN pick up OTA. Having them on cable/sat is a convenience. Remember, OTA has been around a LOT longer than cable. It wouldn't have survived if cable/sat were NEEDED to reach viewers.

Also, please tell me how many markets have 10, much less 15 or 20 stations. Come on, there are only 210. Surely you know how many have that many stations, otherwise you wouldn't make the claim like it would affect EVERYONE.

ETA: My argument was the Dish was "spinning" the facts to make them sound better. I agree stations do the same thing (what does "fair market value" mean?). I guess you think (since my argument is "old & tired") that Dish DOESN'T spin things to make themselves sound better?

You should check my posts, because I make that argument about the cable channels too. If they want to show commercials then stop charging carriage fees. Just because OTA has been around so long doesn't mean most people could or still can get it. I've done installs all around Oklahoma, both before and after I got out of college, lots of places you needed at least a 30ft tower to get locals, especially in the Panhandle, since OKC wants to claim most of western OK. Check the Tulsa DMA we have 12 channels carried by Dish and we are the 60 or 61st market and they don't carry all of our channels nor any of the subchannels. Logic would assume that most of the markets bigger than Tulsa have at least as many and maybe more.

 

[sam_gordon]

You should check my posts, because I make that argument about the cable channels too. If they want to show commercials then stop charging carriage fees. Just because OTA has been around so long doesn't mean most people could or still can get it. I've done installs all around Oklahoma, both before and after I got out of college, lots of places you needed at least a 30ft tower to get locals, especially in the Panhandle, since OKC wants to claim most of western OK. Check the Tulsa DMA we have 12 channels carried by Dish and we are the 60 or 61st market and they don't carry all of our channels nor any of the subchannels. Logic would assume that most of the markets bigger than Tulsa have at least as many and maybe more.

Then I give you credit for being consistent. I readily admit there are people who can't pick up OTA. I just feel those are probably <10% of viewers. I have nothing to back that number up, other than the most populated areas will be closer to the broadcast towers (nationwide). The digital transition helped some and hurt others. I'm figuring those are a wash.

 

[videonex]

But if a broadcaster had chosen 'retrans', and decide they MUST be on (change their mind to 'must carry'), they could always ask for some extremely low amount (1 penny/month/subscriber).
If a broadcaster had chosen 'must carry', they're stuck with it until 2015.

Even under retrans, they can give it up for free, defacto must carry.

 

[papalittle]

Our NBC affiliate (KHAS) is one of the Hoak properties, which I didn't know until it was pulled or taken down from Dish. I don't know for sure which way it happened.
I can still get it OTA, although there are momentary drop outs at times

KHAS on their website is blaming DISH 100% saying they are lying to their customers and are telling everyone to switch to Direct. I do not see why DISH even carries stations that show such poor disregard toward them.

 

[dlharm]

KHAS on their website is blaming DISH 100% saying they are lying to their customers and are telling everyone to switch to Direct. I do not see why DISH even carries stations that show such poor disregard toward them.

I pulled the letter, signed by the President and General Manager of the station, from the KHAS website this morning (6/9/12) to read and you absolutely are right, they say Dish is to blame for the whole mess, or at least that is how I read it, and the Directv phone number is given out to call or if cable is available to call them. The letter also states the Dish is the only player that has not signed the fair market agreement with KHAS. I don't like the attitude that the letter takes and wonder if that is just KHAS opinion or Hoak's in general.

 

[gpflepsen]

This is all good for entertainment value if nothing else. I find it interesting they feel the need to make the squabbles public hoping for leverage. And it is laughable for a free-to-air station to liken themselves to a true cable station.

From KHAS-TV on DISH NETWORK | News 5 | News, Weather, Sports for Hastings | Kearney | Grand Island | Nebraska | Local News

To all DISH Network customers who no longer can watch KHAS TV
I understand and appreciate your frustration and concern.

Dish Network is blatantly dishonest with its customers about this situation. We have successfully negotiated with every cable operator and direct tv an agreement that recognizes a fair market value to carry our station. We are not asking for anything significantly different from Dish Network. Why they feel entitled to be treated differently is concerning.

Dish Network’s claim that we are asking for an outrageous increase, 200%, is completely untrue. We are asking for pennies on the dollar for our programming, far less that what Dish pays for networks like Food Network, Lifetime, Oxygen and others. We offered numerous opportunities to extend the negotiation period to avoid a situation like this but without warning Dish Network pulled our signal from their system. We did not request or demand that they pull KHAS off their
system. The last thing we want is to disrupt viewing habits of our loyal viewers.

Dish Network also claims that we demanded Dish viewers watch commercials, this is simply not true. We did not have direct conversation with Dish about the Hopper or any other DVR devise.

Again, Dish Network is not being honest with its customers. Our station and Dish Network customers are being bullied and purposely
misled by a very large communications company that has revenue in the billions of dollars.

Dish Network needs to hear from you. Call them 1.888.454.7936. You are paying a monthly fee for local stations. Dish Network pulled a local station that you are paying for. You should demand a rebate or credit for the duration KHAS is missing from the service you pay for.

We will continue to work with Dish to bring to a quick end to this situation. Hang in there. Our stations programming is available “free” over the air with a conventional roof top antenna or with rabbit ears depending on your location. You can also call Direct TV 1.855.246.8956 to switch services or if cable is available at your location you may consider this as an option.

If you have additional questions please feel free to reply or call me at the office during regular business hours. I appreciate your concern and comment. We continue to work with Dish Network to restore KHAS TV to their system. The most effective way to get this done is for you, their customer, to call Dish Network right now 1.888.454.7936.

Thank you,

Ulysses Carlini Jr.
President & General Manager
KHAS TV
ulysses.carlini@khastv.com
402.463.1321

 

[navychop]

I can't help but think a letter like that could backfire on them. I know that after reading such an intemperate letter, I would assume they are hiding something and distorting the truth. "Poor little me" does not sit well with me.

 

[navychop]

And I don't want to pay anything for channels *I* never watch... the too many shopping channels, .....

Remember, the shopping channels actually pay Dish to be carried.

 

[sam_gordon]

I can't help but think a letter like that could backfire on them. I know that after reading such an intemperate letter, I would assume they are hiding something and distorting the truth. "Poor little me" does not sit well with me.

The station could be hiding something. But you assume Dish isn't? Why not?

 

[navychop]

Surely Dish is no saint. But it is the STATION that needs to be carried.

 

[KAB]

I wish I had a dollar for every time I've heard/read...."We are asking for pennies on the dollar for our programming."

 

[sam_gordon]

sam, go to your station and start bitching there, i hate to see people like you with those bull and shallow arguments, we are the ones that are paying your salary in that overpriced trashy station of yours!!! making excuses for a pricre increase, i will see you here when your station start the negotiations again, i bet you'll come with the same bull arguments!!!

Do you own the board? Do you have any power to say what any poster should do?

If you simply want someone to 'rah rah, Dish is right, poor subscribers', and don't want to actually DISCUSS other opinions, then put me on ignore. I thought this was a 'discussion board'. Yup... here it is on the front page... a link to 'Jump into our Friendly Discussion Board'. If this is what you consider 'friendly', I'd hate to see how you treat those you don't like.

Here are the arguments I've laid out... tell me where I'm wrong...
1) If cable/sat went away, people (not all, but MOST) could still get OTA. You can't say the same for the other networks (ESPN, Disney, etc).
2) MOST people don't NEED cable/sat to get their locals. Yes, some MUST. But I'm willing to wager the MAJORITY of viewers CAN pick up OTA. Having them on cable/sat is a convenience. Remember, OTA has been around a LOT longer than cable. It wouldn't have survived if cable/sat were NEEDED to reach viewers.

 

[sam_gordon]

Surely Dish is no saint. But it is the STATION that needs to be carried.

Is it? Who needs who more?

My opinion is Dish needs the station(s) as much as the station(s) need Dish. If Dish drops ANY local, you think that local is going to go out of business? But, if Dish drops a local, how many subscribers will they lose? Just because you don't like the programming on the local doesn't mean everyone does.

 

[sam_gordon]

I wish I had a dollar for every time I've heard/read...."We are asking for pennies on the dollar for our programming."

You are correct. I'm not quite sure what that means. The station is of course trying to spin things in THEIR favor. No different than Dish is. But when the station does it it's "bad"? When Dish does it, it's "fine" (not that you're making that argument)?

 

[manteca]

yep, i can tell what you have to do, i already told you

 

[sam_gordon]

yep, i can tell what you have to do, i'm already told you

Then if you've got the power, disable my login. I've told you what YOU have to do... put me on ignore.

 

[KAB]

You are correct. I'm not quite sure what that means. The station is of course trying to spin things in THEIR favor. No different than Dish is. But when the station does it it's "bad"? When Dish does it, it's "fine" (not that you're making that argument)?

It does not matter if it's Dish, Comcast, TWC, etc....all the locals like to use that phrase. Saw it just last week in a TWC dispute with a Louisville local. They seem to pull it out of some kind of negotiations handbook.

 

[sam_gordon]

It does not matter if it's Dish, Comcast, TWC, etc....all the locals like to use that phrase. Saw it just last week in a TWC dispute with a Louisville local. They seem to pull it out of some kind of negotiations handbook.

Right. It's "spin". No different than Dish claiming the station "wants a 200% increase". Both of them are telling the truth. So why is it ok for Dish to spin and the station not to?

 

[sam_gordon]

Another example of "spin"... Assuming the GM quoted above is correct and they station has agreed to retrans with Direct & cable, are they (the station) asking for a "fair value"? Direct and cable must think so, since they're willing to pay it. Dish doesn't think so. If Dish thinks the station is charging too much, no problem. Personally, I wouldn't buy a minivan for $25,000. Does that mean the manufacturer is asking for too much?

I get everyone thinks locals should be free. But almost every argument you make supporting that can be made for ESPN, Disney, History, etc being free too.

IMO, the only argument that holds SOME water is that the station is putting the signal out for free to being with.
My counter to that is even if you pick up a local free OTA, you're not allowed to charge people to come to your house to watch the programming. So the cable/sat providers ARE being treated the same as OTA viewers.