HELP! HOA making me move DISH

[dishcomm]

I disagree Dishcomm, the HOA CAN tell you where to put the dish as long as it doesn't interfere with the signal quality or cause you an extra cost to install it where the HOA want's it installed. We had Elenore from the FCC and Buddy Davis from the SBCA at the first Expo, they are the two people that wrote the OTARD rules and they made it clear that the HOA can tell you where to put the dish as long as the clause below is followed:

Q: What restrictions prevent a viewer from receiving an acceptable quality signal? Can a homeowners association or other restricting entity establish enforceable preferences for antenna locations?

A: For antennas designed to receive analog signals, such as TVBS, a requirement that an antenna be located where reception would be impossible or substantially degraded is prohibited by the rule. However, a regulation requiring that antennas be placed where they are not visible from the street would be permissible if this placement does not prevent reception of an acceptable quality signal or impose unreasonable expense or delay. For example, if installing an antenna in the rear of the house costs significantly more than installation on the side of the house, then such a requirement would be prohibited. If, however, installation in the rear of the house does not impose unreasonable expense or delay or preclude reception of an acceptable quality signal, then the restriction is permissible and the viewer must comply.

I understand the rules....My focus here is the placement that MUST occur to get satisfactory service.
For exampe..I pull up on a job and look the property over...I have trees/ obstructions that prevent me from installing the dish in the "prefered" area..In order to complete the job I must go for a less desirable placement. My objection is to HOA's that try to prevent these installs...
I have been doing this for a long time..I have NEVER had to relocate a dish due to HOA objections..NEVER..Why? Because I always take appearance into consideration when installing a system.

 

[ERSanders]

Sounds like you're referring more to a condo-type arrangement, not regular housing.

My HOA is a Townhome setup (three to four units in each cluster), not condo, not patio...somewhere in the middle. I answered in this manner because Sandra in her four posts-to-date (AFAIK) did not specify the type arrangement in which her mother lived.

"I AM HAVING AN ISSUE WITH MY HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION AND WAS HOPING YOU COULD ASSIST. MY MOTHERS SATELLITE DISH THAT IS UNDER 39 INCHES IN DIAMETER IS MOUNTED ON A MAST IN HER YARD ON HER PROPERTY. IT IS SLIGHTLY VISIBLE FROM THE ROAD. MY HOA IS SAYING THAT THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO MAKE HER MOVE IT UNLESS I CAN PROVE THE FOLLWING TO THEM: 1- The standards for dish installations? 2-How short is a "short staff?" 3-How tall is the mast she has installed? How much heavier is her dish than the typical dish? 4-How did they conclude that it would be "unsafe" on the wall? 5- Is the wall concrete block? 6-Are there not fasteners available for the device to be set into concrete? 7-Have we seen the installation instructions, or are we just relying on what she is telling us?
IN ADDITIION I HAVE TO PAY DISH NETWORK TO HAVE THEM MOVE IT OVER $100.00. MY QUESTION TO YOU IS, IS WHAT THEY ARE DOING LEGAL? ARENT THOSE UNREASONABLE REQUESTS. AS AN HOA I THOUGHT THEY DID NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO MAKE YOU MOVE A DISH EVEN IF IT IS ON A MAST SO LONG AS IT WAS ON YOUR PROPERTY. I REALLY APPREICIATE ANYONES ASSISTANCE IN THIS MATTER.....SANDRA"

 

[digiblur]

Regarding the above linked fcc pdf...

Converted file pdm

The link above is the ruling affirming the trial court's decision that the Hollidays were excessive in their farm of antennas. Interesting read.

I agree with the court's decision in favor of the HOA in restricting the guy's number of antennas used. There are better ways to feed a 10 tv house than with an antenna for each tv.

Not really related to this thread's topic, just an interesting outcome setting more precedence.

I'd love to see the photos of that.

 

[rdlink]

Dishcomm, you're right. HOAs were created for the purpose of preserving property values. But further, they were also created for the purpose of making living in the neighborhood a more enjoyable experience for those that live there. This includes many of the restrictions that you seem to be offended by, such as not leaving your garage door open all day with the pile of crap filling up one of the bays like a flea market. Or flying flags. How'd you like it if the flag your neighbor's flying doesn't have stars and stripes, but KKK on it? And guess what. I'd rather have to get my colors approved than take the risk of having a hot pink house next to mine when I'm trying to sell it.

I agree with your assertion that the FCC regulations put the burden of proof on the HOA. But that does not mean that the HOA cannot make you move your dish if they can prove that you could have gotten an acceptable signal, at a reasonable cost, in a more aesthetically pleasing location.

You state that you've never had to move a dish, and I attribute that to one thing: You have never installed a dish in a location that was not aesthetically pleasing unless you were technically required to do so. That's exactly what the FCC rule says.

My personal opinion is that satellite dishes, small, large or in-between, are ugly. I have a satellite dish on my house, and I hate the looks of it. If I could get signal without it, I would take it down in a heartbeat. But overhead wires, and those green riser boxes that cable companies put in the yards are ugly, too. I guess the one thing that makes HOAs and developers nervous about satellite is the fact that they get to dictate to the cable company what their boxes are going to look like, etc., and they have no control over the satellite installer. So, they have the homeowners sign an agreement (covenants) that they will not do things to degrade the value of the neghborhood.

And you have to admit that their are some pretty crappy installers out there. I've seen the pictures myself, such as mounting with ratchet tie-down straps, etc..

You sound like a professional, reasonable installer, and the regs are not designed to keep you from doing your job. But unfortunately our laws and regulations must be written for those who do not take pride in their work, or respect the rights of others.

 

[dishcomm]

My HOA is a Townhome setup (three to four units in each cluster), not condo, not patio...somewhere in the middle. I answered in this manner because Sandra in her four posts-to-date (AFAIK) did not specify the type arrangement in which her mother lived.

"I AM HAVING AN ISSUE WITH MY HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION AND WAS HOPING YOU COULD ASSIST. MY MOTHERS SATELLITE DISH THAT IS UNDER 39 INCHES IN DIAMETER IS MOUNTED ON A MAST IN HER YARD ON HER PROPERTY. IT IS SLIGHTLY VISIBLE FROM THE ROAD. MY HOA IS SAYING THAT THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO MAKE HER MOVE IT UNLESS I CAN PROVE THE FOLLWING TO THEM: 1- The standards for dish installations? 2-How short is a "short staff?" 3-How tall is the mast she has installed? How much heavier is her dish than the typical dish? 4-How did they conclude that it would be "unsafe" on the wall? 5- Is the wall concrete block? 6-Are there not fasteners available for the device to be set into concrete? 7-Have we seen the installation instructions, or are we just relying on what she is telling us?
IN ADDITIION I HAVE TO PAY DISH NETWORK TO HAVE THEM MOVE IT OVER $100.00. MY QUESTION TO YOU IS, IS WHAT THEY ARE DOING LEGAL? ARENT THOSE UNREASONABLE REQUESTS. AS AN HOA I THOUGHT THEY DID NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO MAKE YOU MOVE A DISH EVEN IF IT IS ON A MAST SO LONG AS IT WAS ON YOUR PROPERTY. I REALLY APPREICIATE ANYONES ASSISTANCE IN THIS MATTER.....SANDRA"

This is exactly the type of bothersome overbearing garbage that irritates me about HOA's....YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PROVE ANYTHING..They are making the claim. Therefore the burden of proof is on the HOA..
I have been in this business nearly 10 years..I have never had to relocate a dish due to HOA objections....Tell them you'll put a fast growing shrub near the pole to mask it somewhat..as long as you try to appear cooperative ,they will leave you alone....BTW..Just make sure the shrub does not obscure the front of the dish...

 

[texasbrit]

I'm not sure why understanding this situation is so difficult. As a DirecTV subscriber (!), and a board member of an HOA, I worked with the HOA attorney to get the HOA rules in compliance with the FCC rulings.
First, under the FCC ruling an HOA can impose restrictions on the placement of satellite dishes providing those restrictions do not affect a homeowner's ability to receive signals or subject them to unreasonable expense. So a ruling that says a satellite dish should be at the rear of a house, or not visible from the street, is reasonable if a dish in those locations can receive all the satellite signals OK, and if it is not significantly more expensive to put the dish there.
If you need to put the dish somewhere else, even at the front of the house on a pole, to get line of sight to all the satellites then you can do that. We asked homeowners who believed the dish had to be at the front of the house to get line of sight to send us a note with an attached note from the installer saying the dish could not be placed at the back.
What a homeowner could not do is simply put the dish at the front of the house because they wanted to. This was in breach of the HOA covenants and the FCC ruling is no protection.
As dishcomm says, if you appear cooperative with the HOA most of them will leave you alone. With our HOA, if you had made a good-faith effort to locate the dish where it was not visible from the roadway that was enough. No-one was walking around peering through bushes to try to catch sight of someone's satellite dish.

I am not arguing about whether HOAs are a good thing or a bad thing, nor whether or not the HOA should have cared where the dish was located. Just that the HOA covenant was a reasonable one, allowed by the FCC, and which was not difficult to comply with.

 

[TheForce]

Anyone who moves into a neighborhood run by one of these HOA's deserves what they get. I have no sympathy for you. Sorry, but I'm frankly tired of people who agree to a HOA and then complain about them. You agreed to let some busybody supervise your home life so live with it!
But you should also know, if one of these organizations starts up after you moved into the neighborhood, you are not obligated by any law to be a member. That's the situation we have here. A few home owners thought it would be cute if they started one of these and could execute their control over their neighbors. Many of us told them where to go when they came around with the contract to sign up. In this neighborhood we have enough legal codes and zoning ordinances to keep bad people from ruining the place. So what good would a HOA do us? There were a couple additional controls these busy bodies thought they needed that the law doesn't provide yet a civil HOA contract would.
1. Ability to dictate what color your house could be.
2. How many cars you could have in your driveway.
3. Whether or not children could play in your front yard..
4. And last but not least, YES! you had to have cable TV, no satellite, no local broadcast.
There were other things too, a list of about 25 as I recall but I wadded up the paper and threw it in the guys face and told him he was trespassing, soliciting without a permit, and to get off my property.

 

[rdlink]

There were other things too, a list of about 25 as I recall but I wadded up the paper and threw it in the guys face and told him he was trespassing, soliciting without a permit, and to get off my property.

Yeah, you seem like a reasonable neighbor.

Look, HOAs are like anything else you buy. As a consumer it's your obligation to educate yourself, and make a decision that's right for you. If you decide that you are served well enough by local zoning laws and ordinances, be my guest.

But in some cities (such as Houston, which has no zoning) and unincorporated areas, HOAs are the only method most people have to protect their investment.

One thing I can say unequivocably: HOAs as a whole have saved homeowners a lot more money than they've ever cost them.

 

[dishcomm]

I'm not sure why understanding this situation is so difficult. As a DirecTV subscriber (!), and a board member of an HOA, I worked with the HOA attorney to get the HOA rules in compliance with the FCC rulings.
First, under the FCC ruling an HOA can impose restrictions on the placement of satellite dishes providing those restrictions do not affect a homeowner's ability to receive signals or subject them to unreasonable expense. So a ruling that says a satellite dish should be at the rear of a house, or not visible from the street, is reasonable if a dish in those locations can receive all the satellite signals OK, and if it is not significantly more expensive to put the dish there.
If you need to put the dish somewhere else, even at the front of the house on a pole, to get line of sight to all the satellites then you can do that. We asked homeowners who believed the dish had to be at the front of the house to get line of sight to send us a note with an attached note from the installer saying the dish could not be placed at the back.
What a homeowner could not do is simply put the dish at the front of the house because they wanted to. This was in breach of the HOA covenants and the FCC ruling is no protection.
As dishcomm says, if you appear cooperative with the HOA most of them will leave you alone. With our HOA, if you had made a good-faith effort to locate the dish where it was not visible from the roadway that was enough. No-one was walking around peering through bushes to try to catch sight of someone's satellite dish.

I am not arguing about whether HOAs are a good thing or a bad thing, nor whether or not the HOA should have cared where the dish was located. Just that the HOA covenant was a reasonable one, allowed by the FCC, and which was not difficult to comply with.

The issue I am trying to grasp is why is the mere sight of a satellite dish such an earth shattering occurance..Can someone please explain that to me...Why is this 20" piece of metal such a bother to some people?..let's for a momnent forget about the FCC and HOA's... someome come up with a rational non emotional and logical response to this question..
One other note...in repsonse to this quote..."walking around peering through bushes to try to catch sight of someone's satellite dish".
Wanna bet?....I live in an area where HOA's have been known to be as overzealous as a country preacher calling out heathens.....

 

[TheForce]

Yeah, you seem like a reasonable neighbor.

Look, HOAs are like anything else you buy. As a consumer it's your obligation to educate yourself, and make a decision that's right for you. If you decide that you are served well enough by local zoning laws and ordinances, be my guest.

But in some cities (such as Houston, which has no zoning) and unincorporated areas, HOAs are the only method most people have to protect their investment.

One thing I can say unequivocably: HOAs as a whole have saved homeowners a lot more money than they've ever cost them.

I am a reasonable neighbor. I come to the rescue when needed ( I can prove that on 5 occasions). I respect everyones, constitutional rights. And I don't bow down to extortion or angry neighbors who feel they are violated because I mowed my grass on Friday rather than on Thursday when they thought I should have.

You sound like a president or active participant of a local HOA.


BTW- I find it difficult to believe that Houston has no Zoning. as you claim but after checking into it I discovered you are correct. It is the ONLY major city that doesn't. However, Houston achieves the same goal as other cities with Zoning regulations with what they call Land Use Regulations. While zoning and land Use Regulations prevent a chicken farm from moving in next to your residential investment This is not the only protection you have. Houston also has a process of Building permits and Codes with inspections. Since this process is in place if it is inadequate, you need to go to your city council and lobby for change. But don't be upset and feel I am a bad neighbor if you come soliciting me to sign up and I refuse.

 

[Voyager6]

For more HOA horror stories including fines for satellite dishes, you should check out this site. Homeowners Associations: News

 

[lumpkin666]

It'd be nice if installers would simply provide a receipt with a disclaimer that says something like "This satellite dish installation is in accordance with the best possible line-of-site scenario as determined by a professional installation tech. Installing the satellite dish in a location other than the best possible location as identified and utilized by the installation tech would require a $500 non-refundable detailed site survey and premium installation fee to be paid by the customer, and would require an additional scheduled appointment for said survey to occur no earlier than 4-6 weeks from the initial survey."

 

[TheForce]

The issue I am trying to grasp is why is the mere sight of a satellite dish such an earth shattering occurance..Can someone please explain that to me...Why is this 20" piece of metal such a bother to some people?..let's for a momnent forget about the FCC and HOA's... someome come up with a rational non emotional and logical response to this question..
One other note...in repsonse to this quote..."walking around peering through bushes to try to catch sight of someone's satellite dish".
Wanna bet?....I live in an area where HOA's have been known to be as overzealous as a country preacher calling out heathens.....

Sure- playing devil's advocate here-

President of HOA has stock in Cable company; Same reason why the HOA has disproved your request to paint your house white, Blue or Green. They are a self proclaimed artist and to them the colors clash with the neighbors.
Should be same as the Mail box along the street. That is a regulation piece of metal and HOA's permit them but not Dishes.

But personally, I will make every effort to put the dishes ( I have three plus a yagi OTA antenna) out of sight, yet effective because I DO feel that a dish in the front yard on a tripod or a pole, looks bad, out of place, etc. BUT that's my opinion. I want my Dish where I have it, on the back side of the roof out of sight. Unfortunately, both D* and E* are now insisting on putting their larger dishes on poles or tripods in the front yard even with clear shots to the bird elsewhere out of sight. Personally, I think it is an advertising thing.
So what we have is an arbitrary decision made by an installer who typically was flippin burgers last week and this week is a satellite installer because he didn't get the other job sweeping hair at the barber shop. These guys know nothing about codes and don't care. They are unregulated, and mostly unprofessional.
Now those of you who do take pride in your installation work, you obviously don't need to take offense at what I said. You are not part of this bunch. But you probably admit that a huge percentage of the installers are like this. If you did take offense, than maybe you need to take a good hard look at what you are doing.

Personally, I think it is an advertising thing.
In Jacksonville, FL. it is very tough to get a permit to advertise anything anywhere unless you pay big bucks for a permit and wait months for approval. I once put a small sign in my front yard that was 9x14 " that had nothing more than my house number on it about 12 inches above ground I was cited for violating the sign ordinance. City permits house numbers only on or near the mailbox which must be next to the front door. This is code! BUT, today, I see hundreds of oval gray signs that advertise Dish or DirecTV in the front yard.

 

[texasbrit]

The issue I am trying to grasp is why is the mere sight of a satellite dish such an earth shattering occurance..Can someone please explain that to me...Why is this 20" piece of metal such a bother to some people?..let's for a momnent forget about the FCC and HOA's... someome come up with a rational non emotional and logical response to this question..
One other note...in repsonse to this quote..."walking around peering through bushes to try to catch sight of someone's satellite dish".
Wanna bet?....I live in an area where HOA's have been known to be as overzealous as a country preacher calling out heathens.....

I am not disagreeing with you. If it were me I would not have a regulation like this, although I would have some sort of regulation to prevent people littering their front lawn with unused pieces of rusty metal, like some of the BUD systems I see in the unincorporated parts of my county. The fact is that the attorney who drew up the original covenants for the HOA put this in, and we have modified it to include the protections of the FCC rulings. If the homeowners wanted to get the covenant removed they could propose that and vote on it. But if the regulation is there, they should not just ignore it.
And I also agree with you about the overzealousness of some HOAs. But that's just how some people behave when they are in any board/committee position. You should see the board meetings of some local charities or arts committees - local orchestra, community social group etc. Some people just treat these like their own fiefdom. You can't change human nature.

 

[Tyralak]

I find it funny that every time someone brings up the HOA a few people say "I would never live in one of those". That's fine. I live in one and am actually on the HOA board as VP. Maybe the OP's HOA is more stringent than the one I am in but even before I was on the board they had no issues with my 6 foot C-Band dish. The only rules they said were it had to be on the deck or on the edge of the roof. They will not allow us to put dishes on the ground. I have complied and haven't had any issues.

Maybe the OP should talk with the HOA and show them the rules. Most HOA's do not know the rules (I know ours didnt until I showed them the rules)

I would never live in one because the whole idea of HOAs offend me. The government already places more restrictions on private property rights than the Constitution allows, and it's getting worse. Why would I want to PAY an extra-governemental organization to impose MORE restrictions on my private property rights? So many people in this country take private property rights so for granted that they're willing to give it up for the promise of marginally elevated property values, or discounted garbage service. They have no idea how exceedingly rare private property rights are in this world. This country is one of the few places in the world where these kind of rights exist. No thank you. You can live in one if you like, but I'll never subject myself to these little neighborhood tyrants who want to micromanage the neighborhood and other people's land as if it's their own little fiefdom. :end rant:

 

[Tyralak]

I should add, we had one homeowner, an Attorney, who challenged us with the FCC. We got the FCC Notice, and gave our written response, including pictures of his installation and our rules.

The Homeowner never replied to the FCC, dropped his FCC Complaint, and removed his dish.

I'll bet you're proud of yourself. :dripping with sarcasm: Chalk up another win for the Community Commies. HOAs ought to be outlawed under the RICO act, or at least have their power to foreclose (i.e. STEAL) on people's homes removed.

 

[Tyralak]

On the other hand, we have a (few) other installers who come out and slap the dish on the Left Front of the home. Why, not to get the best shot, but because they are directly above the power (ground) and cable taps.

They tell the homeowner a whole ration of stories if they ask. The best one that I heard today was that it HAD to be in that specific location for lightning protection. (read: I don't want to run a ground wire back to the dish). Nevermind that every other home on the street had their dish at the rear.

Read the NEC. Ground block must be no more than 25 feet from the ground source. You can't RUN 60 feet of ground line and have it be legal. The installer will put the dish in the most reasonable location with the best source for grounding and being able to be within the maximum distance of cable run from LNBF to receiver. He's the professional not you. It's the customer's property. If he and the tech agree on that spot, it's not your business. If you don't like it you can go pound sand. The law is clear, and you little neighborhood thugs can go back to measuring all the neighbor's grass to see if it's too long. Or telling them what color tulips they can plant in their front yard. Or better yet, GET A JOB or a hobby, or perhaps a girlfriend. Something else to do with your time than poking your nose in your neighbor's business and telling him what he can do with his own property.

 

[Tyralak]

No. I'm implying that when you beat your HOA, even when they're wrong, they start headhunting for anything they can get you on. Not that that would prevent me from using a large array of expletives with their people.

Interestingly enough, did you know that here in CA, a house that is in an HOA is actually considered a negative as regards selling points? I've seen many new developments with it prominently advertised "No HOA!"

 

[Tyralak]

Better yet, gather the neighbors and vote them out. Join the board yourself.

Then dismantle it. I knew someone who was involved in an HOA coup. They took over, then promptly dissolved it.

 

[Tyralak]

I don't need on HOA to keep my property up. The only HOA's I've experienced were run by individuals on a power trip. I'm not saying there aren't good ones around, but I'm saying they sure seem to be rare.

They are also irrelevant and unnessesary. Municipal codes cover most of the major issues.