HELP! HOA making me move DISH

HOA's are a joke. If people are so uptight about how other poeple home's and yards look then move out into the country by yourself where you have no neighbors.

I have to disagree, Some HOAs can go on power trips while others actually help keep you neighborhood looking respectable. I have seen some neighborhoods that are very controlled with rigid rules..I have seen some that are very limited in what they can manage.
My thoughts are if you don't care about up keeping your property don't move into a neighborhood with covenants. Everyone gets a copy before closing and everyone buying a house should ask before making an offer about restrictions etc. One bad HOA ruins the concept about other HOAs just as much as one neighbor that refuse to follow the rules ruins it for the rest of the neighbors.
 
I don't need on HOA to keep my property up. The only HOA's I've experienced were run by individuals on a power trip. I'm not saying there aren't good ones around, but I'm saying they sure seem to be rare.
 
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I moved into a new neighborhood with a HOA. When the HOA board was up, I ran (volunteered), and now am on the board.

The management company is doing the inspections, but I'm making sure we don't become a**holes about it.

It is a matter of making the neighborhood look decent.

The original CCR's have a "1-dish" rule, which is UNENFORCEABLE, and I got a note about having 2 dishes, and printed out the 12-page FCC FAQ, and sent it to them. They haven't bothered me since.

We'd prefer the dish in the back, but understand LOS issues.

Do remind the HOA about the OTARD rules from the FCC.

LER
 
To me, one of the biggest issues is, what looks good to one person, doesn't to another. Who's to say a dish (any size) is an eyesore, or shouldn't be allowed? Just because one person thinks they are ugly, doesn't mean I do. I think Dodge Vipers are ugly, but that doesn't mean everyone does, and doesn't mean I should be able to BAN THEM from my neighborhood. ;)

I think HOA's are a little too gung-ho and power hungry at times, based on the above. Someone there didn't like something, so they fought to ban it. I have a few friends that live in neighborhoods that are part of an HOA, and they are very strict with their restrictions. One of my friends wanted to paint his house, but had to get permission first, and had to submit the color he wanted to paint, AND alternatives in case the first wasn't approved. Because his color options were slightly different than the surrounding homes (all were a brown or tan color, only those TWO colors through the whole neighborhood), they said he couldn't paint. He had to choose from one of those two existing colors that were common in the area. WHAT?! Ridiculous. They want everything to be the same, no individuality at all. Another friend wanted to plant a tree, and they told him NO he couldn't plant anywhere in front or sides of his house. He actually sold his home and moved after several other bogus arguments with that HOA. They were way too strict.

We battled an HOA (on a family members behalf) over a small dish install, and they finally backed down. They too made all the threats, and had lawyers sending letters, but we provided the fcc documentation, and a written letter demanding they prove the validity of their claims, and THEY pay for any cost involved. They responded saying we had to prove our side, and I finally sent a cease and desist letter, notarized by the court, and it ended. Yes, that HOA has tried to get the family member for other things ever since, but so far has not had a leg to stand on. If a blade of grass was hanging over the sidewalk, they'd complain, and try to file complaints with the city. HOA's aren't always bad, but in my experience they usually ARE.
 
We moved into a brand new development in Dec of 06. A week after having my Dish Mover installation done. I received a letter from the HOA stating I was in violation because my dish was visible from the street. Now I have 2 dishes, main one for the normal channels and a second dish pointing at the 61.5 sat for HD. Because of the position of our house it was necessary to put the dishes in the backyard but more to the side of the house to able to view the 61.5 Sat. I sent them a copy of the FCC rules and regs and the quickly backed down. However they now try to bust our ass for any minor violation.....weeds in the front garden, driveway not edged. or worse a garbage can put out too early for collection. All in all not too happy with the HOA at this point
 
The question becomes: Is there a better place to install the dish that still gets good signal without sitting out in the open for others to be looking at the dish? If so, then that is where it should have been installed in the first place. When you move into HOA-managed communities you agree to do your part to comply with the covenants. It seems everyone wants to live in attractive neighborhoods, but then want exceptions made for their violations--but not their neighbor's.
"should have been installed in the first place"....Good point..But incorrect..The FCC rules disallow an HOA from amking that choice for the homeowner..Case closed.
 
In addition to the FCC Fact Sheet, there is also a foundation in case law being built-up. Here is a reference to one particular challenge to the FCC regs, and although it does not directly address the OP's particular issue, it does reveal just how heavy-handed HOAs can be, and how equally heavy-handed the FCC will rule against HOAs.

In this case, the homeowner had installed multiple dishes, and the HOA objected. The FCC ruled in the homeowner's favor and also took the opportunity to reinforce its intent to preserve the rights of citizens not to be impeded in receiving satellite (or local terrestrial) television. Here is the full FCC Opinion & Order:

http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Cable/Orders/1999/da992132.pdf
 
Regarding the above linked fcc pdf...

Converted file pdm

The link above is the ruling affirming the trial court's decision that the Hollidays were excessive in their farm of antennas. Interesting read.

I agree with the court's decision in favor of the HOA in restricting the guy's number of antennas used. There are better ways to feed a 10 tv house than with an antenna for each tv.

Not really related to this thread's topic, just an interesting outcome setting more precedence.
 
The issue is that the HOA is literally powerless to do anything about your DISH Installation, yet they think they have the authority to do anything they want.

Perfect example is about a month ago I had a customer who lived in a HOA and her Dish was on the roof on a Non-Pen roof mount where you could not see it from the street.

She owns the unit, and the Dish was above her home, but the HOA decided they where going to re-do all the roofs and decided that they didn't want anymore Dishes.

Couldn't move the Dish because that was the only place to put it, but it was not like we where drilling any holes since it was on a non-pen mount on a rubber pad held down by cynder blocks.

We ended up removing the Dish for the customer because she refused to put up a fight with the HOA over it.

I gave her a copy of the FCC rules and she was like "You talk to them" I kindly explained to them it was no my problem, but if she wanted to keep her Dish it was her responcibility to take it up with the board.

Anyways, she went back to Cable.

But I could really care less since we charged her to remove the Dish and she was a 5 year old customer so I did not get charged back!

Many people think if they create a stink they will get kicked out of their homes, which is not true!
 
On the other hand, we have a (few) other installers who come out and slap the dish on the Left Front of the home. Why, not to get the best shot, but because they are directly above the power (ground) and cable taps.

They tell the homeowner a whole ration of stories if they ask. The best one that I heard today was that it HAD to be in that specific location for lightning protection. (read: I don't want to run a ground wire back to the dish). Nevermind that every other home on the street had their dish at the rear.

Just like overbearing HOAs get a bad rap, these (few) installers give Dish a bad rap.

but my question would be... how big are these houses? How far is it from the utility ground to the back of the house where you want the dish? If it is more than about 20' or so, then it probably is in violation of NEC code. Maybe they installed the satellite at the front so that it was done right, and in compliance with NEC code. I don't know, giving them the benefit of the doubt i guess :)
 
but my question would be... how big are these houses? How far is it from the utility ground to the back of the house where you want the dish? If it is more than about 20' or so, then it probably is in violation of NEC code. Maybe they installed the satellite at the front so that it was done right, and in compliance with NEC code. I don't know, giving them the benefit of the doubt i guess :)
All thru thisa threa we have read posts by people who claim to be part of an HOA board..They use words such as "desired", "prefered", etc when describing dish placements within their swubdivisions.The bottom line is this: the FCC regs give the homeowner the right, not a priveledge or a guideline, but the RIGHT to install a satellite antenna on his/her property. And install that dish anywhere they see fit.
HOA's can suggest, cajole, scream, holler or hold their breath until they turn blue in the face..It doesn't matter. HOA's seem to think they have the power to initimidate a homeowner..They claim that the homeowner shold have read the covenants and when they bought the home, agreed to abide by them..Fine. No problem..But HOA's have no one overseeing them and they can change rules capriciously anytime they wish. Not only that, an HOA in the case f satellite tv reception can only suggest to homeowners where they prefer the dish to be placed..An HOA cannot mandate placement in a certain area...Yes, I have seem replies from HOA board members who have pretty creative interpretations of the FCC rules..But they are wrong..Homeowners must stand up fo rtheir rights. And not give the slightest cocern about the HOA "gett8ing back at them" for piddly assed violatiuons such as grass mowing garbage and all that...That is harrassment and is in a civil court actionable.
 
My two cents:

I am not on my HOA board. Though I've thought about it, and may run at some point. Mainly so that I can work toward more consistent enforcement of the rules in place (Like why they don't tell my neighbor to move the 5th wheel that he leaves on the curb for two weeks at a time, or why nobody asks these people to explain why they have 3 car garages, yet need to put all of their cars on the street). These rules are, for the most part, sensible, and work toward keeping the value of my property up, as well as my neighbors.

Some of the posters here have an obvious hatred for HOAs. And if you were to ask my opinion their feelings seem to be deeply rooted in the old redneck "It's my property and nobody's gonna tell me what to do with it." mentality. First of all, you live in a fantasy world if that's what you think. You had no "rights" until the FCC gave them to you. HOAs have certain powers granted to them by various state and federal statutes, regulations and case law. Not my opinion. Fact. If you want to spend your life and energy creating animosity with others, it's your right to do so. But wouldn't your time and energy be much better spent trying to have a dialogue with these people about why they think their rules are good for the neighborhood? Who knows, perhaps you and they could both learn something.

Others in this thread seem to be a little fearful of HOAs. No need. Know your HOA's rules, be willing to either accept and follow them, or work within the system to change them, BEFORE you sign the dotted line. If you obey the rules, or even violate them in good faith, everything will more than likely be OK.

Some here seem to be mis-interpreting the FCC rules. Nothing in the rules states that an HOA cannot tell you where to put your dish, as long as their requirements don't:

-- Delay you.
-- Cost you an unreasonable amount of money.
-- Cause you to have degraded service.

Let's look at my HOA's rules, for instance. They tell me that I have to send them a diagram of how I either intend to install, or how I installed my dish. They tell me that I need to put it in the back yard if that is feasible, and I need to try to keep it from being viewable from the street, if that is feasible.

Their rules do not violate any of the FCC's rules. When I installed my dish, I had a good place to mount it, out of view of the street, and which gave me a good signal. I could start mounting it whenever I wanted. If I had decided that I wanted to mount my dish on the front of my house (North side) "just because I wanted it there" the HOA would have been within their rights to rule me in violation, because their rules did not delay me, prevent me from getting a good signal, nor would they have caused me to incur unreasonable expense. On the other hand, had I not been able to get a good signal without mounting the dish on the front of my house, or in my front yard, for that matter, there's nothing the HOA could have done to stop me. Personally, I would have foregone satellite had I needed to put the dish in the front yard. But that's my personal decision, and moot in the legal discussion.

Another thing to keep in mind: I work in the legal field. There is no such thing as "The court will kick the HOA out in 10 minutes." Unless you can get stipulation between the parties on such things as "reasonable expense" the facts of the case must be proven. Any time that a phrase like "reasonable expense" is put into a law or regulation, it must be interpreted by the courts, and every jurisdiction is going to spend the time interpreting it the way they see it, until the highest court that oversees them, whether it be a state supreme court, or the federal supreme court clarifies the interpretation beyond ambiguity.

What's a "reasonable expense?" Might a court say that $100 for a dish movement is reasonable, considering that the owner of the dish is going to spend $95 a month on programming? They just well might.

I know that some of the folks in this thread feel a little oppressed by living in a society that needs laws to stop the most unethical, unreasonable and inconsiderate among us from trampling the rights of others. But you really should get over the need to strap that virtual six-shooter onto your hip.

I, personally, would tell you that, while I love the fact that the FCC rules are in place, and they are overall a fine way to balance the needs of the larger community with the rights of the individual, I would vehemently defend the right, and yes I said right, of the HOA to enforce it's reasonable and lawful rules.

What we never got from the orginal poster is whether there is a place on their property where the dish could have been located, that would have been unobtrusive, while still providing an economical, acceptable signal. And it appears to me that the HOA is just asking her to confirm that. It's not like a foreclosure notice has been nailed on the front door, for Christ's sake.
 
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Another point which I don't remember seeing on this thread;

In most HOAs you OWN the ground on which your unit is constructed and perhaps a "fringe" of land around the unit...a foot or so. So this, if a ground mount was required, would necessitate in most cases, installing the pole mount on common property.

In MHO this would require a HOA permission outside the FCC ruling since you don't own the land in question.

As you can see mine is on the roof for this and LOS reasons!
 
Actually, not true. In a single-family residence the HOA doesn't "own" anything except for things like esplanade ROWs, etc. The land on which your home sits is yours, and you provide a utility ROW for such things as water, gas, electrical, cable lines. But the HOA doesn't own any of that ROW.
 
in a residential housing development like mine, I believe I own the land between all the property lines (I.E. all the houses are detached), but the HOA (and I'm a board member) can suggest that the dish be on the back of the house assuming LOS.

(see above post as well).


LER
 
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Actually, not true. In a single-family residence the HOA doesn't "own" anything except for things like esplanade ROWs, etc. The land on which your home sits is yours, and you provide a utility ROW for such things as water, gas, electrical, cable lines. But the HOA doesn't own any of that ROW.

Different states* and developments are apparently structured differently.

In my case, having been on the HOA board two times for a total of six years, all area outside the footprint of the unit is common, this includes drives (you have an exlusive use ROW), roadways, woods, grass between units, etc.

So I guess it is "Different Strokes for Different Folks"...check your HOA documents to be sure.


*NY in my case
 
All thru thisa threa we have read posts by people who claim to be part of an HOA board..They use words such as "desired", "prefered", etc when describing dish placements within their swubdivisions.The bottom line is this: the FCC regs give the homeowner the right, not a priveledge or a guideline, but the RIGHT to install a satellite antenna on his/her property. And install that dish anywhere they see fit.
HOA's can suggest, cajole, scream, holler or hold their breath until they turn blue in the face..It doesn't matter.
I disagree Dishcomm, the HOA CAN tell you where to put the dish as long as it doesn't interfere with the signal quality or cause you an extra cost to install it where the HOA want's it installed. We had Elenore from the FCC and Buddy Davis from the SBCA at the first Expo, they are the two people that wrote the OTARD rules and they made it clear that the HOA can tell you where to put the dish as long as the clause below is followed:

Q: What restrictions prevent a viewer from receiving an acceptable quality signal? Can a homeowners association or other restricting entity establish enforceable preferences for antenna locations?

A: For antennas designed to receive analog signals, such as TVBS, a requirement that an antenna be located where reception would be impossible or substantially degraded is prohibited by the rule. However, a regulation requiring that antennas be placed where they are not visible from the street would be permissible if this placement does not prevent reception of an acceptable quality signal or impose unreasonable expense or delay. For example, if installing an antenna in the rear of the house costs significantly more than installation on the side of the house, then such a requirement would be prohibited. If, however, installation in the rear of the house does not impose unreasonable expense or delay or preclude reception of an acceptable quality signal, then the restriction is permissible and the viewer must comply.
 
In most HOAs you OWN the ground on which your unit is constructed and perhaps a "fringe" of land around the unit...a foot or so. So this, if a ground mount was required, would necessitate in most cases, installing the pole mount on common property.
Sounds like you're referring more to a condo-type arrangement, not regular housing.
 
My two cents:

I am not on my HOA board. Though I've thought about it, and may run at some point. Mainly so that I can work toward more consistent enforcement of the rules in place (Like why they don't tell my neighbor to move the 5th wheel that he leaves on the curb for two weeks at a time, or why nobody asks these people to explain why they have 3 car garages, yet need to put all of their cars on the street). These rules are, for the most part, sensible, and work toward keeping the value of my property up, as well as my neighbors.

Some of the posters here have an obvious hatred for HOAs. And if you were to ask my opinion their feelings seem to be deeply rooted in the old redneck "It's my property and nobody's gonna tell me what to do with it." mentality. First of all, you live in a fantasy world if that's what you think. You had no "rights" until the FCC gave them to you. HOAs have certain powers granted to them by various state and federal statutes, regulations and case law. Not my opinion. Fact. If you want to spend your life and energy creating animosity with others, it's your right to do so. But wouldn't your time and energy be much better spent trying to have a dialogue with these people about why they think their rules are good for the neighborhood? Who knows, perhaps you and they could both learn something.

Others in this thread seem to be a little fearful of HOAs. No need. Know your HOA's rules, be willing to either accept and follow them, or work within the system to change them, BEFORE you sign the dotted line. If you obey the rules, or even violate them in good faith, everything will more than likely be OK.

Some here seem to be mis-interpreting the FCC rules. Nothing in the rules states that an HOA cannot tell you where to put your dish, as long as their requirements don't:

-- Delay you.
-- Cost you an unreasonable amount of money.
-- Cause you to have degraded service.

Let's look at my HOA's rules, for instance. They tell me that I have to send them a diagram of how I either intend to install, or how I installed my dish. They tell me that I need to put it in the back yard if that is feasible, and I need to try to keep it from being viewable from the street, if that is feasible.

Their rules do not violate any of the FCC's rules. When I installed my dish, I had a good place to mount it, out of view of the street, and which gave me a good signal. I could start mounting it whenever I wanted. If I had decided that I wanted to mount my dish on the front of my house (North side) "just because I wanted it there" the HOA would have been within their rights to rule me in violation, because their rules did not delay me, prevent me from getting a good signal, nor would they have caused me to incur unreasonable expense. On the other hand, had I not been able to get a good signal without mounting the dish on the front of my house, or in my front yard, for that matter, there's nothing the HOA could have done to stop me. Personally, I would have foregone satellite had I needed to put the dish in the front yard. But that's my personal decision, and moot in the legal discussion.

Another thing to keep in mind: I work in the legal field. There is no such thing as "The court will kick the HOA out in 10 minutes." Unless you can get stipulation between the parties on such things as "reasonable expense" the facts of the case must be proven. Any time that a phrase like "reasonable expense" is put into a law or regulation, it must be interpreted by the courts, and every jurisdiction is going to spend the time interpreting it the way they see it, until the highest court that oversees them, whether it be a state supreme court, or the federal supreme court clarifies the interpretation beyond ambiguity.

What's a "reasonable expense?" Might a court say that $100 for a dish movement is reasonable, considering that the owner of the dish is going to spend $95 a month on programming? They just well might.

I know that some of the folks in this thread feel a little oppressed by living in a society that needs laws to stop the most unethical, unreasonable and inconsiderate among us from trampling the rights of others. But you really should get over the need to strap that virtual six-shooter onto your hip.

I, personally, would tell you that, while I love the fact that the FCC rules are in place, and they are overall a fine way to balance the needs of the larger community with the rights of the individual, I would vehemently defend the right, and yes I said right, of the HOA to enforce it's reasonable and lawful rules.

What we never got from the orginal poster is whether there is a place on their property where the dish could have been located, that would have been unobtrusive, while still providing an economical, acceptable signal. And it appears to me that the HOA is just asking her to confirm that. It's not like a foreclosure notice has been nailed on the front door, for Christ's sake.
Well your two cents is more like 20 bucks..Anyway. I object to the neighbor who doens' know that sound travels. Or the idiot who thinks the street belongs to them. Or the guy that never heard of paint, clorox or a lawn mower..HOA's were invented for the sole purpose of protecting property values. The negative and at times caustic comments re: HOA's are most likely becuase HOA's generally have gone off the deep end. For example our HOA rules take up ten pages. Additionally, HOA's get a bad rap because theey are mostly run by cliques of people who have nothing better to do with themselves than mind their neighbor's business.
So you get to read responses mainly from those who have had poor experiences with HOA's over nit picky crap..
You mention parking cars in the street..So what?..Is t in violatuion of local ordinance?..If not, the HOA has no say unless the subdivision maintains the streets..I know this because we have a covenant that "recommends' we do not park in the street overnight..However that rule is unenforceable becuase the town has no such ordinance and the State maintains the streets..NC is a weird place..There are subdivisions that prohibit leaving one's garage door open..That's ridciclous...In others there are rules that prohibit flying of flags or changing your mailbox color or placing decorative banners upon them..I have seen rules which prohibit chaging the color of one's home without permission.
I fully realize why there are HOA's But again, they seem to take themselves far too seriously..
Now with reagrd to the placement of dishes..The only thing an HOA can do is suggest or recommend..When it comes down to the placement, if the dish needs to go there, it's going there..The HOA is powerless to do anything..They ar enot the professionals ..We are..Oh they can think they know better. But If in my judgement the LOS forces me to put the dish in a place less desirable, I will...A note...I always consider aesthetics first..When I siute survey a job, I go to the rear of the house first.
Not once in 9 years have I ever had to go back and move a dish due to HOA rulings...And I can count on one hand the number of times I had a customer cancel an install over HOA concerns.
Now you mentioned your install.. You did well...
I gues the rub here on this issue the fact that HOA's often violate due process when they place the burden of proof upon the homeowner..In the real world the one making the charges has to prove the charged that person is doing something worng. Not the other way around..
In the end I would really like to know why it is that a pizza sized piece of metal is so frigin controversial...What really angers me is the fact that CableTV can do whatever they want( i.e.) run cable aerial if the job calls for that or leave a cable lying in a person's yard for weeks at a time untl the drop burial crew gets around to finshng the job...I believe satellite is being singles out..I think there is a prejudice against satellite tv...JMHO..
 

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