HD-Lite Class Action

[SRW1000]

For those that don't understand how someone can support the temporary use of HD-Lite, let me pose a question to you and answer to yourself honestly.
Which would rile more subs up to the point of canceling DISH?
1) To learn that they are not getting every bit of resolution that HD has to offer
or
2) That in order to give every bit of resolution that HD has to offer they are turning 20 HD channels OFF

Yea I either must be getting compensated by DISH or I possess the ability of simple logic.

I don't know which would be the case. And, if a person is honest, I don't think they could pick either one.

The point of this post isn't to determine what would cost them customers, it's about doing the right thing. Ethically and legally.

Scott

 

[dslate69]

I don't know which would be the case. And, if a person is honest, I don't think they could pick either one.

The point of this post isn't to determine what would cost them customers, it's about doing the right thing. Ethically and legally.

Scott

How many subs do you know that cancelled when they became aware of HD-Lite?
There is post after post on this forum and dbstalk of new subs they came for the 30+ HD channels (most happy some not but here non the less).

Either your answer is in no way honest or you are not in touch with reality, either way I will waste no more time on an unwilling ear.

 

[SRW1000]

How many subs do you know that cancelled when they became aware of HD-Lite?
There is post after post on this forum and dbstalk of new subs they came for the 30+ HD channels (most happy some not but here non the less).

Either your answer is in no way honest or you are not in touch with reality, either way I will waste no more time on an unwilling ear.

And there are plenty of posts from people hacked off to learn that the HD stations they're paying for is not actually in HD.

Anecdotal evidence is no more accurate than the polls that I referenced.

Again, if you know of some impartial study or poll, please post it.

Scott

 

[waltinvt]

I guess this is were I email you my "brawling resume" , but instead I look at the size of your HDTV and laugh that you are even complaining about resolution.

If you want to beat on your chest some more, PM me so I can make travel arrangements.

Well I've been waiting at the border rest area for I-91 Northbound for 2 days now - where ya been? 'bout froze my nuts off this morning.

And making fun of the size of one's tv is hitting below the belt - besides, I bet it's heavier than yours.

Maybe playing a loop of Enzite commericals on it overnight would help.

 

[waltinvt]

<snip>....Dish is currently in the process of testing how aggressively they can downrez the HD channels. They will go down to as low resolution as most of HD subscribers are going to accept. As long as people keep their HD packages Dish are happy.

I think that's exactly right.

Here’s my vision of the future:

OTA HD is expanding pretty fast. Here in Atlanta area more OTA HD is added about every month. NBC, for instance, is having virtually non-stop HD each day starting at 7 pm and going after 1 am. Other channels are joining the competition too. It is very realistic that in a year from now we will have 4-5 (or more) OTA channels each providing at least 6 hours of HD programming every day. All free.

Of course, many households cannot get OTA. Well, they still have the following option.

Hi Def DVD market offering stunning HD quality will start to expand. With the prices dropping and more content becoming available it will be an excellent choice for true HD lovers.

What is going to happen is that those who value true HD vs HD Lite will be dropping Dish so called "HD" service in favor of OTA and Hi Def DVD. If the amount of those is significant, Dish of course will try to improve their HD programming. Otherwise, HD Lite is there to stay but without me having to pay for it.

All good points. The main one being that the only thing likely to get Dish to improve (or even stop degrading PQ) is competition. No amount of bitching here is going to have any impact.

Next year "D" will have a lot of new satellite space and if the "Turd Bird" still cares about his company, we may see them take on picture quality against Dish.

At some point competition will force improvments in the quality end of HD and if studios and producers start to insist, we may see it get better sooner. That's where our complaints should really be directed.

 

[waltinvt]

I don't know which would be the case. And, if a person is honest, I don't think they could pick either one.

The point of this post isn't to determine what would cost them customers, it's about doing the right thing. Ethically and legally.

Scott

Dish Network hasn't been about "ethically & legally for many years.

 

[waltinvt]

How many subs do you know that cancelled when they became aware of HD-Lite?
There is post after post on this forum and dbstalk of new subs they came for the 30+ HD channels (most happy some not but here non the less).

You actually make a valid point here.

[/b]And there are plenty of posts from people hacked off to learn that the HD stations they're paying for is not actually in HD.

And so do you.

There are plenty of subs that would leave both "D" & "E" right now if there was a place to go. That's the rub and also the reason our bitching in discussion groups doesn't have any direct impact on them at the moment. Indirectly however it does force them to keep more of an eye on the competition because things could change quickly.

 

[dslate69]

Not so long ago I was in my Local TWC forum complaining about TWC not adding HD and how their HD Receiver lacked features and never got updates. I bitched for a while and weighed my options. I had some in the forum telling me what I am telling you "walk the walk". I tried to get DISH but the guy that did the site survey said I couldn't get 129. I had to think how bad I wanted to move to DISH and more importantly move away from TWC. Well $600 worth of tree removal got me a great look at 110,119, and 61.5 so I "walked the walk" and canceled the company that I had been bitchin' about and got DISH.

And my earlier question wasn't "how many would be hacked off to learn of HD-Lite" but "how many would leave DISH". Anecdotal or not; if those that are hacked off enough to bitch about it everyday on this forum won't even "walk the walk", then the average sub won't either.
Now that's an Anecdotal Fact.

 

[foghorn2]

If you want to sugest what I should do with my choices, then pay the delta to get me out of my contract with Dish Network. Otherwise, it is none of your business what I do.

If you don't like Dish, cancel the contract. Its your choice, not mine. :

 

[foghorn2]

the sob really making money from Dish on each his post
I can't belive normal subsriber/member here will methodically put down other persons whus intention make HD channels better ( read restore back PQ ) for all HD subscribers
WTF ?

I thought you left, buddy. I do want HD channels better for EVERYONE. I just happen to be realistic and understand that it will take more time, sats, and TP's.

By the way, my mother and father were not female dogs, so please quit calling me a SOB and get back on topic.

 

[dslate69]

If you don't like Dish, cancel the contract. Its your choice, not mine. :

Some seem to think they are posting in a personal blog. That would explain why they are so shocked when advice or a different point of view comes their way. I have read some of your recent post and it may be you are not hitting yourself with the hammer hard enough; you are still making too much sense.

 

[SRW1000]

And my earlier question wasn't "how many would be hacked off to learn of HD-Lite" but "how many would leave DISH". Anecdotal or not; if those that are hacked off enough to bitch about it everyday on this forum won't even "walk the walk", then the average sub won't either.
Now that's an Anecdotal Fact.

I'm well aware of your original question, but the answer is unknowable. Not everyone that dumps Dish or DirecTV posts here. Neither provider has dropped any stations to improve picture quality, so nobody has dropped service because of that either. Two unknowable results, based on either voluntary non-scientific poll data or unverifiable anecdotal evidence, which only leads to speculation.

The whole question of who would leave Dish is off-topic anyway. The discussion at hand is whether or not Dish and DirecTV are liable for false advertising. Which certainly seems to be the case.

Time will tell.

Scott

 

[gutter]

I think when a new supplier comes into the market like a Verizon FIOS, customers will move with the quality. Hey...it is no different than GM and Toyota. Toyota is gaining ground because they push quality more than GM is perceived to be.

DISH should learn a lesson here and speak to us subs who pay extra for the privilage of having HD.

 

[dslate69]

I'm well aware of your original question, but the answer is unknowable.

I wasn't going to reply to your post anymore as your denial is wearing thin, but one last time let me explain. The answer is knowable as many have posted on this forum and others that they joined DISH for the 30+ HD channels. Are you Denying this FACT. I am one. If you can not admit this to be FACT, stop reading now I concede to your unwillingness to enter into a honest debate.
I am not looking for an exact number of new subs that just got a HDTV and want to get the most channels, but just admit they exist.
If you can admit this continue...

Not everyone that dumps Dish or DirecTV posts here.

Correct, but I would expect that one or two of the most outspoken HD-Lite critics would drop by to let us all know how much better cable is after dropping DISH. Someone would have surely posted the day they told DISH that HD-Lite was the reason they were leaving. I know I posted and still post in my local TWC forum.

Your reply that this is just 2 unknowns shows your unwillingness to except the TRUTH. I am not trying to submit hard numbers for publication in the HD-Light Journal but I think even the most feeble minded would have to believe DISH is signing up new subs because of their HD channels.

 

[foghorn2]

I'm well aware of your original question, but the answer is unknowable. Not everyone that dumps Dish or DirecTV posts here. Neither provider has dropped any stations to improve picture quality, so nobody has dropped service because of that either. Two unknowable results, based on either voluntary non-scientific poll data or unverifiable anecdotal evidence, which only leads to speculation.

The whole question of who would leave Dish is off-topic anyway. The discussion at hand is whether or not Dish and DirecTV are liable for false advertising. Which certainly seems to be the case.

Time will tell.

Scott

False advertising? The channels are HD channels delivered through DishHD. Its all above 720 lines and as whatchel1 posted, they are compliant with published DTV standards.

 

[SRW1000]

I wasn't going to reply to your post anymore as your denial is wearing thin, but one last time let me explain. The answer is knowable as many have posted on this forum and others that they joined DISH for the 30+ HD channels. Are you Denying this FACT. I am one. If you can not admit this to be FACT, stop reading now I concede to your unwillingness to enter into a honest debate.

OK, it's a fact that people have posted that they've joined Dish for what they (mistakenly) believe is 30+ channels of HD programming. I don't think that's ever been disputed.

I am not looking for an exact number of new subs that just got a HDTV and want to get the most channels, but just admit they exist.

Sure, they exist. Again, I've never disputed that there are some.

If you can admit this continue...

Correct, but I would expect that one or two of the most outspoken HD-Lite critics would drop by to let us all know how much better cable is after dropping DISH. Someone would have surely posted the day they told DISH that HD-Lite was the reason they were leaving. I know I posted and still post in my local TWC forum.

Your reply that this is just 2 unknowns shows your unwillingness to except the TRUTH. I am not trying to submit hard numbers for publication in the HD-Light Journal but I think even the most feeble minded would have to believe DISH is signing up new subs because of their HD channels.

FACT: Dish is signing up new customers because they are promising lots of HD programming.

FACT: Dish is also downrezzing much of that programming, so that it no longer conforms to the HD specs they reference.

FACT: Some people have posted that they've left Dish because of this misrepresentation.

SUPPOSITION: Subscribers would leave Dish in droves if they were to reduce the number of HD channels they offer.

SUPPOSITION: Subscribers would leave Dish in droves if they were to learn that on a fraction of their HD programming is transmitted in HD.

SUPPOSITION: Subscribers would come to Dish in droves if they were to start transmitting all of their HD programming in true HD.

SUPPOSITION: Subscribers would come to Dish in even bigger droves if they were to add another 10 HD channels, even if that meant broadcasting all of their channels in a 480p widescreen format, since it would look much better than SD, and most of their customers are too ignorant to know the difference.

SUPPOSITION: Dish will be sued for the same reason as DirecTV is currently being sued over HD/HD Lite.

SUPPOSITION: Dish and DirecTV will lose the lawsuits.

SUPPOSITION: Cable and FIOS providers will use the lawsuit in massive ad blitzes, causing customers to switch providers.

SUPPOSITION: Legal fees, fines, loss of subscribers, and stringent new HD guidelines will put Dish in financial trouble.

SUPPOSITION: People will get fed up reading all of the possible things that may or may not be true, or may or may not happen.

Without facts, we're just throwing out ideas of what we think is going on or will come to pass. None of it will have an effect on the lawsuit that started this thread, and the facts that we're trying to discuss.

Scott

 

[SRW1000]

False advertising? The channels are HD channels delivered through DishHD. Its all above 720 lines and as whatchel1 posted, they are compliant with published DTV standards.

Boy, I though we might at least get some agreement on this. Maybe you missed it, but on post #111 of this thread, I linked to Dish's own definition of HD. It's more than just > 720 lines.

Then, in post #112 I included a link to Dish's website referencing the ATSC specs for digital TV and what qualifies as HD.

Neither of those include 1080 x 1280i or 1080 x 1440i. The specs that watchel1 posted to are legitimate satellite broadcast resolutions, but they are not defined as HD by either the ATSC or even Dish.

They define HD as one thing, but actually give their customers something significantly less than that. If that's not false advertising, what would you call it? Creative bamboozling? Bait and switch? Taking advantage of the ignorant?

Scott

 

[YoMamasMan]

False advertising? The channels are HD channels delivered through DishHD. Its all above 720 lines and as whatchel1 posted, they are compliant with published DTV standards.

Does "DTV standard" mean that Dish Network has published a High Definition broadcast standard, or do you refer to the ATSC Digital Television Standard (A-53)?

P.S.: I know you and dslate69 want all that disagree with you leave the forum. I am still going to complain about HD-Lite, because Echostar has a contract with me to provide High Definition TV broadcast, and it is STILL NONE OF YOU BUSINESS about what I do. If we permit you and Echostar Corp. run us away from this forum, we customers would then have conceded to accept a bogus substitute product for actual HDTV broadcasts. Therefore, you and dslate69 might as well bag it.

 

[Stew]

I think when a new supplier comes into the market like a Verizon FIOS, customers will move with the quality. Hey...it is no different than GM and Toyota. Toyota is gaining ground because they push quality more than GM is perceived to be.

DISH should learn a lesson here and speak to us subs who pay extra for the privilage of having HD.

Exactly. I've just had FIOS installed and want to make a qualitative decision. I've got 30 days with Verizon and will take my time.

 

[waltinvt]

Look guys, they're pulling your chain because they have nothing better to do. Dish has even admitted they currently believe more customers prefer quantity over quality when it comes to HD.

Dish has (IMO) admitted their "HD" is NOT true HD since they no longer use the term "HD" but instead call it "DishHD" with a "tm" after it which means they probably intend to keep it this way for a while.