HD-Lite Class Action

[SRW1000]

I am just confused on whether this is a "quality" issue with the HD-Lite haters or a "truth in advertising" because depending on the post I don't think you guys know.
I don't think that if HD-Lite's resolution was one line less than advertised anyone could tell the difference or care enough to sue for "truth in advertising". Could anyone tell the difference with two lines or three lines less resolution and if not would "truth in advertising" be worth sueing over then?

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SRW1000 post don't have to be long and circular, if you try you can have a short concise post that won't put people to sleep.

Sorry. This can be a complex issue, so I'll try to keep it short for you.

In summary:

• This thread is about providers being sued for not giving consumers what they advertise. They should either deliver what they claim or claim what they deliver.

• Both providers claim HD is defined as 1920x1080i or 1280x720p.

• Both providers take much of the 1920x1080i content and downrez it to 1280x1080i or 1440x1080i. Neither of those resolutions is considered HD, by their own definitions.

• Losing up to a third of the resolution is not a minor difference.

• Making it clear to consumers that what their offering is only near-HD quality would be sufficient to avoid being sued.

• Temporarily eliminating some programming to allow true HD broadcasting would keep them from being sued.

I think that sums it up.

Scott

 

[foghorn2]

Sorry. This can be a complex issue, so I'll try to keep it short for you.

In summary:

• This thread is about providers being sued for not giving consumers what they advertise. They should either deliver what they claim or claim what they deliver.

• Both providers claim HD is defined as 1920x1080i or 1280x720p.

• Both providers take much of the 1920x1080i content and downrez it to 1280x1080i or 1440x1080i. Neither of those resolutions is considered HD, by their own definitions.

• Losing up to a third of the resolution is not a minor difference.

• Making it clear to consumers that what their offering is only near-HD quality would be sufficient to avoid being sued.

• Temporarily eliminating some programming to allow true HD broadcasting would keep them from being sued.

I think that sums it up.

Scott

So what, most HD is not shot in 1920x1080i anyway. It is scaled up to 1920x1080i and downscaled to 1140x1080i by Dish and then upscaled back to 1080i or 720p by the STB's.

The HD-Lightweights need to sue the guys who converted the film to "HD-Lite" or shot the damn video in "HD-Lite" in the first place. Dish is in the clear because the output of the STB's can be 1080i, which it may or may not be scaled again by your TV.

 

[dslate69]

Man have we have wasted a lot of forum real estate arguing "quality" for it not to matter to you guys.
So if you can't even pick a HD-Lite channel out of a line-up, why this fight?
Why not go after the fast food restaurants for those doctored pictures of their menu items? Or "freeIPOD.com"? or 1000 other "truth in advertising" violators?
I think you would get more support than this one.

 

[SRW1000]

So what, most HD is not shot in 1920x1080i anyway. It is scaled up to 1920x1080i and downscaled to 1140x1080i by Dish and then upscaled back to 1080i or 720p by the STB's.

The HD-Lightweights need to sue the guys who converted the film to "HD-Lite" or shot the damn video in "HD-Lite" in the first place.

I don't know what percentage of programming originates in 1080x1440i. 2K and 4K cameras are becoming more common, so that will not be an issue for long. Film-based content is routinely converted to full HD resolution.

Dish is in the clear because the output of the STB's can be 1080i, which it may or may not be scaled again by your TV.

I don't think so. The content is provided to them in HD resolution, and they reduce it. (We'll bypass the messy Voom situation for now, since both parties are pointing their fingers at the other).

We can't simply look at what the receiver is outputting. Otherwise, they could drop the resolution of all their programming to 480i (or less), since it would just get up-scaled by the receiver.

Hmm, maybe that's a good marketing hook for them. Set your receiver's output to 1080i, and all channels are now HD. That would certainly make them the HD leader!

Scott

 

[Smith P.]

Scott, quick hide the idea from public ! - It will be real disaster for all consumers.

 

[dslate69]

Still no discernable difference between 1080i and 1080p?
http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/11/13/still-no-discernable-difference-between-1080i-and-1080p/

I guess this may be irrelevant since this in no longer an argument for quality but instead "truth in advertising", but it is very interesting that going strictly by "the numbers" you don't get the whole story. I admit I can tell the difference in True-HD and HD-Lite depending on the program today, maybe tomorrow with some DISH improvements I won't be able to.

Someone that is going to argue that even 1919x1080i is HD-Lite since it is less than the standard may technically be right, but can they tell the difference?
Answer: NO

Why would DISH take a line of resolution away from us?
Answer: To free up bandwidth to give us more HD

If you can't tell the difference and get more HD doesn't everyone win?
Answer: YES

 

[Smith P.]

I'll give a little more fuel for your flame

Dish doing a few HD LiL in MPEG-4 [H.264] with 1440x1088 and suppressing 'Interlaced' Flag , ie using unusual value = 0.

 

[retorq]

You do realise 1080 is really 1088:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATSC#TV_Resolution_Overview

1080-Line video is actually encoded with 1920×1088 pixel frames, but the last eight lines are discarded prior to display. This is due to a restriction of the MPEG-2 video format, which requires the number of coded luma samples (i.e., pixels) to be divisible by 16.

 

[Smith P.]

I do, but there're more things then just 16x size; all other 1280/1440/1920x1080i channels posing the exactly numbers in MPEG headers.

 

[retorq]

Interesting, I've never actually looked at a TS file header to see . . . carry on . . .

 

[Smith P.]

not TS, but ES !

 

[Ronald_Jeremy]

So what, most HD is not shot in 1920x1080i anyway. It is scaled up to 1920x1080i and downscaled to 1140x1080i by Dish and then upscaled back to 1080i or 720p by the STB's.

The HD-Lightweights need to sue the guys who converted the film to "HD-Lite" or shot the damn video in "HD-Lite" in the first place. Dish is in the clear because the output of the STB's can be 1080i, which it may or may not be scaled again by your TV.

Have you ever watched Starz HD? The picture is not bad until things start moving. Then it goes to crap. Same with Showtime HD, NGHD, and DisoveryHD.

I for one have grown tired of it all. And it just cost them some money and I let them know why. I downgraded my HD package and am considering fropping HD alltogether until my contract expires.

I have an idea that would be an interesting experiment. For those that get their locals in HD over DISH. Record the same program over the dish and OTA and compare them. I guarantee you will see what Dish does to degrade the picture.

I wish there was a way to rip the videos so the comparison can be uploaded somewhere.

HD quality is why 80% of my viewing is done with my OTA locals.

A good candidate for the experiment to accent the differences would be CSI Miami. When they come back from commercials they usually pan around high rise condos on the beach at a very fast pace. The picture over the dish will get all pixellated. It will look like someone pasted a buttload of different colored post-it notes on your bigscreen.

 

[whatchel1]

Don't see it here

Have you ever watched Starz HD? The picture is not bad until things start moving. Then it goes to crap. Same with Showtime HD, NGHD, and DisoveryHD.

I for one have grown tired of it all. And it just cost them some money and I let them know why. I downgraded my HD package and am considering fropping HD alltogether until my contract expires.

I have an idea that would be an interesting experiment. For those that get their locals in HD over DISH. Record the same program over the dish and OTA and compare them. I guarantee you will see what Dish does to degrade the picture.

I wish there was a way to rip the videos so the comparison can be uploaded somewhere.

HD quality is why 80% of my viewing is done with my OTA locals.

A good candidate for the experiment to accent the differences would be CSI Miami. When they come back from commercials they usually pan around high rise condos on the beach at a very fast pace. The picture over the dish will get all pixellated. It will look like someone pasted a buttload of different colored post-it notes on your bigscreen.

I get my HD CBS from NY right now. My local station is LP SD and so I by hook and crook I got a waiver that is allowing me to get HD out of NY (unless we loose DNS. Anyway I have had no trouble w/CBS NY pixellating like you are talking about.

 

[Ronald_Jeremy]

Here is the Jessica Simpson DirecTV commercial.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nf9jaZy3pYU

 

[Madtown HD Junkie]

Here is the Jessica Simpson DirecTV commercial.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nf9jaZy3pYU

Which I love

 

[riffjim4069]

My wife saw the Jessica Simpson commercial the other night and told me that I could never order DirecTV.