HD-Lite Class Action

[SRW1000]

Thank You! I asked this question twice now and most the HD-Lightweights have not responded:

If Dish and DirectTv were both to give you full rates and rezzes right now, will they have enough bandwith? Will they have to remove some channels?

Instead they call names and become insulting and invite fighting. So I ask those people again:

If Dish and DirectTv were both to give you full rates and rezzes right now, will they have enough bandwith? Will they have to remove some channels?

Yes, some channels will have to go. If they are reducing the resolution by 33%, it's fair to say that 1/3 of the channels would have to disappear for now. That doesn't rule out some channel sharing, so that some might air from 6:00 AM to 6:00 PM and others from 6:00 PM to 6:00 AM.

Of course the flip side of the argument is that since the downrezzed HD Lite channels aren't broadcast in HD now, the actual number of true HD channels would increase. But I don't think that's what you meant.

Scott

 

[foghorn2]

Yes, some channels will have to go. If they are reducing the resolution by 33%, it's fair to say that 1/3 of the channels would have to disappear for now. That doesn't rule out some channel sharing, so that some might air from 6:00 AM to 6:00 PM and others from 6:00 PM to 6:00 AM.

Of course the flip side of the argument is that since the downrezzed HD Lite channels aren't broadcast in HD now, the actual number of true HD channels would increase. But I don't think that's what you meant.

Scott

So you are advocating millions of subs to loose channels so a few (the ones with 1080i sets that are obsessed with the specks) can get a few channels in "true hd". You've got to be kidding? Are the HD-Lightweights gonna choose which channels we will loose?

Its a good thing Dish does not take the HD-Lightweights seriously. They would certainly go bankrupt.

 

[whatchel1]

I agree

So you are advocating millions of subs to loose channels so a few (the ones with 1080i sets that are obsessed with the specks) can get a few channels in "true hd". You've got to be kidding? Are the HD-Lightweights gonna choose which channels we will loose?

Its a good thing Dish does not take the HD-Lightweights seriously. They would certainly go bankrupt.

I would say that 98% are going to agree w/this.

 

[Smith P.]

And again for you, whatchel1. Those 1440 and 1280x1080i modes are for non-square pixels TVs, like CRT only, since there're 99% of LCD, plasma HD TV sets had square pixels. Now take a look in previous table - Source ...

 

[dslate69]

I would say that 98% are going to agree w/this.

Absolutely. It goes without saying that this is not a cowboy move by Charlie to provide HD-Lite because he can and doesn't care if we like it or not.
It is a logical business decision. And it would make zero business sense to mirror cable and offer no reason for potential subs to come to the DISH-Side. As for DirecTv, they offer HD-Lite and few HD channel choices so Charlie is using this time to gain subs. This is why the HD-Light obsessed change their argument from quality, to truth in advertising, to anything but a logical business decision.
Although I do applaud SRW1000 for finally verbalizing some semblance to an alternative plan when saying possibly some channels could time share. But in reality if HD-Light did not exist for DISH, their would be no reason not to go with cable since DISH would just be Cable with rainfade.
It would also make since that DISHs HD channels would have been set long before any of the recent additions. With no NFL-HD, no ESPN2-HD, no room for INHD or any near future additions, I think Charlies plan is a lot more flexible and appealing.:up

 

[whatchel1]

Have it your way

And again for you, whatchel1. Those 1440 and 1280x1080i modes are for non-square pixels TVs, like CRT only, since there're 99% of LCD, plasma HD TV sets had square pixels. Now take a look in previous table - Source ...

Whatever I'm getting bored w/ the constant same ole same ole of this thread. BTW the shape of the pixel makes no diff. The circuitry of the sets are going to interpet those to fit the screen. That is what scaling is all about. As I said in an earlier post on this thread that you seemed to have ignored I think that any standard less than 1920 x1080 is HD LITE. So I appoint you KING of the HD LITERS. Now I will continue to look at this thread but it is becoming very obvious that about 3 of you guys will not even agree to compromise until there is more bandwidth. I also have said to keep gripping about it so that when the time comes up that something can be done about it, we can make sure that only the best is presented. I'm just tried of the repetitive banter of this thread. It is going nowhere.

 

[SRW1000]

So you are advocating millions of subs to loose channels so a few (the ones with 1080i sets that are obsessed with the specks) can get a few channels in "true hd". You've got to be kidding? Are the HD-Lightweights gonna choose which channels we will loose?

First, we're dealing with a lot of speculation here. Do we know how many actual HD subscribers Dish has? I know how many total customers they have, but I don't recall seeing how many of those subscribe to HD.

Second, There are already a number of people that are missing HD channels, due to either the tiered HD programming packages, and/or not owning MPEG4-capable decoders.

Third, how many of those consumers would be upset to learn that up to a third of the resolution they think they are getting is tossed out?

We don't have answers to these questions.

So, since we're all just speculating here, I'll offer a solution:

Kill the HD demo channel. The last I heard, this is one of the few channels Dish broadcasts in true HD resolution (look at what we're not going to give you). I don't think many people would miss it.

Next, set the following channels up on alternating schedules, either alternating blocks during the day, or even alternating days/weeks. The goal wold be to reduce the actual amount of content shown by 66%. Since so much of the programming is composed of repeated material, the actual impact would be minimal:

Rave HD
Equator HD
Animania HD
Rush HD
Ultra HD
Kung Fu HD
Film Fest HD
HD PPV Movies
NFL Network HD
Voom World Sport HD
Voom World Cinema HD
Voom Family HD
Gallery HD
Voom Treasure HD
Voom GamePlay HD

Scott

 

[SRW1000]

I would say that 98% are going to agree w/this.

I'm not sure where you get 98% from, but based on polls conducted here and on the AVS Forum, the majority of people would rather have fewer true HD channels than more HD Lite channels:

15 HD or 21 HD-Lite? Which VOOM would you prefer?

More HD channels or Better HD Picture Quality?

More HD Channels or Higher Res HD?

Scott

 

[SRW1000]

Absolutely. It goes without saying that this is not a cowboy move by Charlie to provide HD-Lite because he can and doesn't care if we like it or not.
It is a logical business decision. And it would make zero business sense to mirror cable and offer no reason for potential subs to come to the DISH-Side. As for DirecTv, they offer HD-Lite and few HD channel choices so Charlie is using this time to gain subs. This is why the HD-Light obsessed change their argument from quality, to truth in advertising, to anything but a logical business decision.

If a business has to rely on deceiving its customers, is that a logical business decision? I don't think it would fly in the company I work for.

But in reality if HD-Light did not exist for DISH, their would be no reason not to go with cable since DISH would just be Cable with rainfade.

I disagree. There are a number of reasons to choose Dish. Some people hate the cable monopoly, others can't get get cable.

Also, Dish started competing against cable based on a quality argument. Remember those days? X number of channels in crystal clear digital quality. Well those quality days have long since disappeared, but they could always go back in that direction.

Then there's the issue of pricing. Dish used to have a clear pricing advantage over cable. That too has faded in the past few years.

There are ways to complete without having to tell your customer that they're getting something that they actually aren't.

Scott

 

[Smith P.]

OK, I'm done - probably it's nice to sit in warm mud and tell everyone how good is there, but I'd like different places. Bye.

 

[SRW1000]

Now I will continue to look at this thread but it is becoming very obvious that about 3 of you guys will not even agree to compromise until there is more bandwidth.

I've offered up a couple of compromises: Eliminate the useless and redundant programming, or start telling customers that they aren't actually receiving most of their channels in HD. Instead, we're getting denial from DirecTV and Dish, and some kind of double-talk between Voom and Dish (regarding the fiber feed "problem")

I also have said to keep gripping about it so that when the time comes up that something can be done about it, we can make sure that only the best is presented. I'm just tried of the repetitive banter of this thread. It is going nowhere.

The time to do something about it is now. If we don't protest now, if this lawsuit goes nowhere, if consumers simply decide to roll over, I think we will eventually see the end of true HD over satellite and maybe even cable.

The parallel to DBS SD programming quality is clear. If we just sit back HD Lite resolutions could become legitimate industry-recognized HD resolutions. At that point, true HD is dead. And all of this will happen as the CE companies continue to design and manufacture cheaper, better, and higher-resolution HDTV sets.

That's why this is so important, and why I'll continue to post replies here. I'd like to think that I've added to the debate, and maybe educated some people along the way. In any case, I have tried to do something to protect HD for the future.

Scott

 

[foghorn2]

All I have to say is that its a shame that HD-Lightweights are advocating Dish to offer me and a majority of Dish customers to loose channels we pay for for the sake of the few with 1080i sets.

Don't mess with the channels I and a majority of subs willingly pay for. I'm sure most of the HD-Lightweights have access to cable and HD-DVD players.

 

[dslate69]

I'm not sure where you get 98% from, but based on polls conducted here and on the AVS Forum, the majority of people would rather have fewer true HD channels than more HD Lite channels:

Scott

As long as you believe the forum dwellers are the majority of DISH subs your conclusions will always be flawed. Not to mention, I like a good debate most that are content with how Charlie is handling the HD do not take part in those polls. The outspoken minority scew many polls.

 

[dslate69]

If a business has to rely on deceiving its customers, is that a logical business decision? I don't think it would fly in the company I work for.

Obviously DISH is gaining more subs from HD-Lite than losing them. That is what I mean about business decisions. If you can't admit that we have come to an impass.

 

[dslate69]

... how many of those consumers would be upset to learn that up to a third of the resolution they think they are getting is tossed out?
...

Evidently none of you that are so upset have left DISH, so this supports the contention that from a business decision HD-Lite it working. It is your weakest argument that everyone is being decieved and that they would all be upset if the ones in the know like yourself are content enough to stay what makes you think any other sub would have a different take.
Come on admit it... You love HD-Lite, that's why you are still my DISH brother.

 

[whatchel1]

Made my day

Evidently none of you that are so upset have left DISH, so this supports the contention that from a business decision HD-Lite it working. It is your weakest argument that everyone is being decieved and that they would all be upset if the ones in the know like yourself are content enough to stay what makes you think any other sub would have a different take.
Come on admit it... You love HD-Lite, that's why you are still my DISH brother.

Too bad sounds don't go along w/ this forum. I wanted to hear a drum roll and a TAH DAH at the end of the statement. Had to just imagine it.

 

[foghorn2]

The fat lady has sung and the HD-Lightweights are loosing the argument that we willing subscribers to DishHD should loose channels for their (minority) benefit. :


Drum roll please!

 

[foghorn2]

As long as you believe the forum dwellers are the majority of DISH subs your conclusions will always be flawed. Not to mention, I like a good debate most that are content with how Charlie is handling the HD do not take part in those polls. The outspoken minority scew many polls.

There are only 60 members on the HD-Lightwieghts StopHdlite website forum.

60 Members on the HD-Lightweights side in their eyes constitute a majority of Dish customers in their eyes

 

[Petrovich]

Here’s what I think of all of this.

Dish is currently in the process of testing how aggressively they can downrez the HD channels. They will go down to as low resolution as most of HD subscribers are going to accept. As long as people keep their HD packages Dish are happy.

I personally regret having subscribed to Dish HD, I seldom watch it preferring HD OTA. If both quality and content do not improve I will drop it as soon as my contract expires. And the current trend is not making me feel optimistic.

Here’s my vision of the future:

OTA HD is expanding pretty fast. Here in Atlanta area more OTA HD is added about every month. NBC, for instance, is having virtually non-stop HD each day starting at 7 pm and going after 1 am. Other channels are joining the competition too. It is very realistic that in a year from now we will have 4-5 (or more) OTA channels each providing at least 6 hours of HD programming every day. All free.

Of course, many households cannot get OTA. Well, they still have the following option.

Hi Def DVD market offering stunning HD quality will start to expand. With the prices dropping and more content becoming available it will be an excellent choice for true HD lovers.

What is going to happen is that those who value true HD vs HD Lite will be dropping Dish so called "HD" service in favor of OTA and Hi Def DVD. If the amount of those is significant, Dish of course will try to improve their HD programming. Otherwise, HD Lite is there to stay but without me having to pay for it.

 

[foghorn2]

Here’s what I think of all of this.

Dish is currently in the process of testing how aggressively they can downrez the HD channels. They will go down to as low resolution as most of HD subscribers are going to accept. As long as people keep their HD packages Dish are happy.

I personally regret having subscribed to Dish HD, I seldom watch it preferring HD OTA. If both quality and content do not improve I will drop it as soon as my contract expires. And the current trend is not making me feel optimistic.

Here’s my vision of the future:

OTA HD is expanding pretty fast. Here in Atlanta area more OTA HD is added about every month. NBC, for instance, is having virtually non-stop HD each day starting at 7 pm and going after 1 am. Other channels are joining the competition too. It is very realistic that in a year from now we will have 4-5 (or more) OTA channels each providing at least 6 hours of HD programming every day. All free.

Of course, many households cannot get OTA. Well, they still have the following option.

Hi Def DVD market offering stunning HD quality will start to expand. With the prices dropping and more content becoming available it will be an excellent choice for true HD lovers.

What is going to happen is that those who value true HD vs HD Lite will be dropping Dish so called "HD" service in favor of OTA and Hi Def DVD. If the amount of those is significant, Dish of course will try to improve their HD programming. Otherwise, HD Lite is there to stay but without me having to pay for it.

Why don't you drop the HD channels Dish offers you and go AT-60 or whatever is the min and you can still get the HD OTA with their box?