To my knowledge and the specs I have seen; the processor is fine, it can process the information for mpeg 2 and 4. The problem is the 921s and 942s are either using a PCI slot or slow AGP which won't allow for the retransmission of the information from the processor out to the tv. No sort of software will solve this as it is a problem hardware end which is why all the current recievers will need to be replaced. And aphio, I'd watch what you say, Crystal was a csr at one of the centers and they threatened her with termination for being on this site, something about the media disclosure doscument that was signed upon hiring.
Has any news leaked about the future MPEG4 recievers?
- Thread starter markusian
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Actually, drod, IIRC, Crystal later claimed to be a college student running a psychology experiment or some such on us. It may have been someone else that claimed to be from E*, but that's the way I remember it.
In any event, if he really is E* (I doubt it big-time), you're right, he's now subject to termination.
And of course, you're right in that the main processor in an E* box is NO WAY fast enough to do software decoding of MPEG-4 - Charlie's too cheap to drop a 3GHz chip in there. Just look at the 921 - it's got the cheapest junk obsolete CPU he could find.
I'm not sure, tho, but I think you might be wrong on the bandwidth available on PCI/AGP. Remember - high-resolution computer displays are putting out as many or more pixels than HDTV.
In any event, if he really is E* (I doubt it big-time), you're right, he's now subject to termination.
And of course, you're right in that the main processor in an E* box is NO WAY fast enough to do software decoding of MPEG-4 - Charlie's too cheap to drop a 3GHz chip in there. Just look at the 921 - it's got the cheapest junk obsolete CPU he could find.
I'm not sure, tho, but I think you might be wrong on the bandwidth available on PCI/AGP. Remember - high-resolution computer displays are putting out as many or more pixels than HDTV.
Maybe the latest 942 delay was because they are quickly soldering in that new faster chip before it get rushed out of the door. 
But seriously, knowing Dish, they might try to pull some trick like this one: Modify the hardware without software support, for now. Try to support it later with a software upgrade.
Of course, they will discover that they've missed something and it does not work.
-Mark
But seriously, knowing Dish, they might try to pull some trick like this one: Modify the hardware without software support, for now. Try to support it later with a software upgrade.
Of course, they will discover that they've missed something and it does not work.
-Mark
942 MPEG-4 Compatibility
Below is a quote from "Jonathan H" at E*:
"Thank you for your email. Currently, there is no information regarding whether or not the 921 will be mpeg4 compatible; however, the 942 is mpeg4 compatible."
Below is a quote from "Jonathan H" at E*:
"Thank you for your email. Currently, there is no information regarding whether or not the 921 will be mpeg4 compatible; however, the 942 is mpeg4 compatible."
It's pretty interesting that the replies from certain E* people continue to tell people when asking about the 942 is that it's MPEG4 compatible.
I wish they would be more specific, but if this is what they've been told to tell people I may start to believe the 942 swap out.
They should say something like this. "While the current 942s cannot receive an MPEG4 stream, the MPEG4 DVR that's being built will enable us to swap out existing 942s for the new model."
I wish they would be more specific, but if this is what they've been told to tell people I may start to believe the 942 swap out.
They should say something like this. "While the current 942s cannot receive an MPEG4 stream, the MPEG4 DVR that's being built will enable us to swap out existing 942s for the new model."
lolgpflepsen said:You sir, are not a true satelliteguy. That thing would have priority in my life.
aphiohokie said:
aphiohokie,
Thats right the 942's software could be updated to work with MPEG4 but since all of the softwares' command set to make it work depend on alternate processors and other components all current receivers don't have so MPEG4 with current models WILL NOT work.
Just because a receivers software can be replaced in all Dish equipment does not mean its hardware can support it.
Your assumption could be made about other receivers as well. How come all Dish's SD receivers can't be upgraded to output HD with a Software update. The answer is the same, that receivers hardware will not support that or those additional functions regardless of the software in the receiver.
Software is only the instruction set for the hardware and components on the system board, if the board lacks the hardware to do a function then all the software in the world will not be able to add that function.
Dish Engineers have told us again and again ALL current hardware and boards in all Current receivers will NOT be able to support MPEG4. MPEG4 support will REQUIRE hardware replacement.
John
SimpleSimon said:
And this "E* guy" has hokie in his nickname. Hmmmmmmmmm
BTW - Frenchinia Tech (as in traitors!) can @!#$!@#$!@#$@!#$ themselves.
There - that should rile the masses a bit...
Again I have met FACE TO FACE with Mark Jackson and Charlie Ergen about this. The 942 is NOT software upgradable to MPEG4!
Scott Greczkowski said:
Hm, I also work at a high tech company that designs and builds computers. I've rarely found that our CTO/CEO have any clue what the products they sell can really do. In the case of Dish this would be the same CEO who told us a month ago on Charlie Chat "no new HD until MPEG4".
From a technical perspective, the entire key is the decoder chip. Neither the input section (tuners and stream disassemblers) nor the output section (the components that contain the frame buffers generating the image for the display) care about the format of the compressed stream. Generally speaking there is an ASIC (either as licensed IP or as a discrete component) in the box somewhere that gets the compressed stream fed and writes the product to a frame buffer. There are several manufacturers for MPEG2 ASICs and also licensable cores for MPEG2. Some have announced MPEG4 ASICs that offer both MPEG2 and MPEG4 in the same form factor (pinout) as existing MPEG2 ASICs. The system software (which runs on the main CPU) needs to send PIO or MMIO commands to the decoder to select the decoding modus.
So, all that being said, I don't know what Dish has in there. Should they have future proofed this thing, it is conceivable that the MPEG ASIC in there can be switched to MPEG4. Given the time frame of initial production, it's possible.
As an alternative (albeit an expensive one) they might have implemented the MPEG decoder as an FPGA. In this case the entire "chip" can be reloaded with a different decoder algorithm.
In either case, I'm pretty sure that the main CPU does not handle decoding. Considering the work this CPU has to do moving data streams from tuners to the disk and streams from the disk to decoder/display stages, it just doesn't have the bandwidth to handle decoding (for two streams, no less) as well.
I remember the old computer days even recently with US Robotic Modems.
When you need to do an upgrade to used a Chip Puller to pull the EEProm out and then you put in a new one.
Maybe thats how the upgrades to Mpeg4 will be done. You mail them in, they put in the new chips and then they over night air them back.
When you need to do an upgrade to used a Chip Puller to pull the EEProm out and then you put in a new one.
Maybe thats how the upgrades to Mpeg4 will be done. You mail them in, they put in the new chips and then they over night air them back.
Since MPEG4 is relatively new in the DBS industry, I sincerely doubt that the 942 has adequate hardware to support MPEG4 even if drivers and other software for MPEG4 for the 942 are available. At the same time, I don't know how Voom's STB's can *supposedly* be just reflashed or reprogrammed to do MPEG4 with current receivers. An example of E* releasing new features and future-proofing their receivers is the 522 when it got Single User Mode and NBR. But! Given E*'s track history, you usually don't get all the features implemented on the final release of the product: big example being the 921. Chances are that the 942 was solely designed for MPEG2 and has no more room to be able to process MPEG4, which requires more processing by the GPU or CPU, memory, and bandwidth across chipseats. The good thing for MPEG4 is that maybe a 250 GB HD can now store roughly 60 hours of HD instead of 30! This is all my speculation, by the way. Take it with a grain of Morton's.
SummitAdvantageRetailer said:
Huh? The bandwidth into the decoder is actually lower with MPEG4, the bandwidth out of the decoder is set by the video format (1920x1080i, 60 fps or whatever). What do you base your statements on? Assuming that the decoding is done by decoder ASIC, the rest of the hardware doesn't care.
Today's decoder chips are standalone CPUs in their own right so they dont have to bother the main system CPU. Thats being done now in today's Intel chipsets with multimedia PCs.
The main system CPU, bus, memory, drives, chassis, and software do NOT need to change! They just need to change out tuner cards. I think if someone pops open their 942 and takes a hard look they can see the 2 tuner cards that need to be replaced. Dish will tell you its a hardware change and it is, and it is not user serviceable (at least most users). But it will allow a receiver exchange program and refeeding the refurbs back out.
The main system CPU, bus, memory, drives, chassis, and software do NOT need to change! They just need to change out tuner cards. I think if someone pops open their 942 and takes a hard look they can see the 2 tuner cards that need to be replaced. Dish will tell you its a hardware change and it is, and it is not user serviceable (at least most users). But it will allow a receiver exchange program and refeeding the refurbs back out.
I think this statement to be true IMO. I'm not a techie when it comes to computer components, but I would think that E* had in mind mpeg4 when designing the 942. I beleive the 942 will have to be swapped out but I think we will find it to have pretty much the same appearent design as what you are seeing now. I think the first wave of 942's will be altogether new mpeg4 STB's. However once they get enough of the used 942's it will be easier and more cost efficiant to open them up and make the needed changes to send them right back out. I'm just usin my common sense on this since I'm not a computer wiz when it comes to the hardware. Does anyone else agree with this?? Sure it is total speculation, but to me it seems logical and economical as well. Any opinions??dmodemd said:
