Future of C-Band Paid Programming

[wallyhts]

I own a small fiber company and when I mean small we pass 50 houses and business right now. Fiber is cheap the construction is a lot. We are lucky and don't have much rock so it's about $10 a foot to drill and pull. However if you hit rock it costs $70 a foot. So personally I don't see fiber everywhere I think satellites we be around for a long time.

 

[truckracer]

I own a small fiber company and when I mean small we pass 50 houses and business right now. Fiber is cheap the construction is a lot. We are lucky and don't have much rock so it's about $10 a foot to drill and pull. However if you hit rock it costs $70 a foot. So personally I don't see fiber everywhere I think satellites we be around for a long time.

Agreed.

 

[Lone Cloud]

Even at 70 bucks per foot, it doesn't take long for customers to pay that off. Sure, the more remote, rural places will be a big investment for fiber. But then the arithmetic of the situation will have the corporates asking if it is worth launching satellites for the few out in the countryside. Alaska did so for a time, with its stations up on 137 west, but those are gone now. Louisiana still has its PBS at least. Sorry, but all the thought, innovation and investment is focused on the internet . So much video is on there right now.

I see further internet expansion by the proliferation of fiber. Moore's Law is still holding up so there will be that much more video capacity ahead. Satellite designing, launching, maintaining and replacing is not getting cheaper. I am not bullish on the viability of our hobby. for the long term

 

[FaT Air]

Who were all the naysayers when WSTV went dark? I think it's better now if you're C band equipped. Sure it will all disappear at some time. But don't think it will be in our lifetimes. We have to get past DVB-S3, don't we?

 

[armadillo_115]

I don't know how long FTA will last.But...how many of us will be around in 15 or 20 years to care? We are an ageing group like Amateur Radio and CB. Heck,even desktop computers are on the way out.The days of installing an application on the PC are fading fast.Youth today want to do everything in the 'Cloud'.(I'm old-fashioned....I want my crap where I have control of it) Try to find a small appliance repair shop or shoe repair shop.I hope to be around a good while longer and hopefully FTA will last at least that long.

The sad thing is: FTA could have been better utilized.Imagine if K band carried the major networks ITC and the Public was informed on the equipment needed.The initial cost wouldn't be that much greater than setting up a long range FTA system,maybe less.Maybe the Feds could have given partial vouchers for K band systems to rural users instead of those digital converter vouchers which were useless in areas with no/limited OTA reception! TV's could sell with onboard FTA receivers installed.Not only would the rural population benefit ,but the internet backbone would be less stressed from the video downloading that is happening now.( Interesting side note: I have not watched Netflix since setting up the bud! I'm sure I will eventually,but so far the bud has prevented me from streaming 20 or 30 movies.Youtube use is down as well) HOA's should prefer small dishes to large long range OTA antennas mounted at heights.I'm not against OTA...I just can't receive it in my location.

Why does a commercial on FTA have any less advertisement value than watching it on OTA? The wife wants that incredible, amazing 'swirly mop thingy' she saw on FTA just as much as if she saw it advertised elsewhere. I'm stupid I guess...but why wouldn't broadcasters WANT FTA'ers to watch the programming and ads.(I'm not talking subscription channels here)

The fact is that neither private corporations nor the politicos are overly concerned with the rural population.Not enough financial gain for the former,not enough votes for the latter.Rural areas will gradually be left further and further behind in the race for internet bandwith.

I don't believe that the 'old-fashioned' concept of streaming channels will continue many more years.Video on demand is what the younger generation want.Like being on a morphine drip in the hospital and the nurse gives you the feed button....happiness is just a click away.

How many more years does OTA have left as well? And will there be anyone left that cries at the funeral? I still listen to AM radio quite often....but how many people would even notice if it disappeared tomorrow?

I'm not saying the Future will be bad...but it will be a heck of a lot different.

And now if you vote me for President, I promise.....

 

[norman881]

I don't know how long FTA will last.But...how many of us will be around in 15 or 20 years to care? We are an ageing group like Amateur Radio and CB. Heck,even desktop computers are on the way out.The days of installing an application on the PC are fading fast.Youth today want to do everything in the 'Cloud'.(I'm old-fashioned....I want my crap where I have control of it) Try to find a small appliance repair shop or shoe repair shop.I hope to be around a good while longer and hopefully FTA will last at least that long.


I'm not saying the Future will be bad...but it will be a heck of a lot different.

And now if you vote me for President, I promise.....

I just turned 54, so I hope to be around another 20 years.

Norman

 

[Lone Cloud]

How many more years for FTA ?? I don't know but I doubt more than 10.

The sad part is how the world seems to be stuck in the age of German rocket scientists out of the nazi era. A lot of people thought in the 1960s that some kinds of new, advanced rocketry would be zipping tourists to the Moon and Mars by this date. Nope. Liquid fuel and solid fuel chemical rockets are all we have -.expensive chemical rockets.

A friend of mine in the fiber industry (Verizon) advised that the glass fibers used have a much longer lifespan than copper. We all know about the huge bandwidth advantage of optical over electrical. They figure maintenance costs for fiber will be a fraction of what it was for copper land lines. So, while technology has stalled for decades in rocketry, the march of progress in internet technology continues with urgency.

Don't count me as one who is looking forward to the demise of FTA. I like it. I especially love finding stuff on there that nobody in a mile radius has any idea of. My analysis is not based on what I'd like to happen to this hobby. It's based upon the facts I see on the ground. I hope satellite FTA won't end, but if it does, I will mourn its loss. .

 

[radio]

Satellites seem the best "mass" distribution method YET today for many services. I echo the sentiments above...I love the "oddities" it brings to me as a viewer, and the hobby of "finding" signals is the fun part. Last subscribed to C-band via HITS a few years back.

On the topic of us being an aging group ("like CB's and Amateur radio") I'd point out that today, the "ham" operator can have a hand-held radio more tech-filled than ever, and that I'm seeing younger people taking the test to be an operator. It's all about EDUCATION for young people. Get them interested YOUNG. If we want FTA to survive, the same applies to FTA. No longer do we have to have a room full of tubes to talk to the world!

A friend who is a radio engineer for us noted at a local school library that there were NO radio or electrical engineering books, basic, mid, or advanced level on the shelves! If we don't INTRODUCE young people to satellite, to traditional radio, to the concept of them learning how to ENGINEER our future electronic toys and gadgets, and to electronics in general, we'll fall even FARTHER behind as a country in engineering savvy and innovation. Do some of you remember the books you read as a kid that may have led you toward (some leg of ) electronics as a hobby, like FTA is? Mine was, "A Boy's First Book of Radio and Electronics" which was OLD when I read it in about 1974....but it SO intrigued me, I learned! Recently, the same radio engineer who observed the lack of books in the library gave me a copy of that book as a gift. It was like GOLD and one of the nicest gifts I've ever gotten as it brought back memories!

Check your local school's library and see if they have similar books TODAY to intrigue young minds in the field of electronics and engineering. The kind that would be applicably interesting and challenging for today's readers, (not necessarily the antique variety like the one I read) If not, find some for them...and why not bring along the young people on your next dish-hunt and install to show 'em what this hobby is all about. Maybe send them home with a book or magazine about satellite communications!

Here's to YEARS of FTA yet to come! Even "network" delivered FTA...which is enough to keep me watching for it's quality!

 

[Titanium]

Heeellllllooooo Chicken Little's!

You be the one to tell Elon Musk that his investment in hurling satellites into orbit at a fraction of the historical cost is an investment into old and dying technology. The cost for multi-point distribution downlinks gives a significant advantage to satellite. Friends in the uplink industry indicate satellite bandwidth usage is at the highest levels ever. Carriers and modulation types shift, but we still have data that needs to be distributed and broadcast. We may have a different receiver (or other yet to be developed device) in ten years, but some of us will always be monitoring the feeds and broadcasts.

Bookmark this post for a time capsule review in 10 years and we will either reminisce on how quickly the sky fell and how naive Brian was or laugh about how little things have changed... My money is on the latter!

 

[armadillo_115]

Best I can use is an example.Getting youth interested in the older tech after they have experienced the internet is comparable to going back to 1950 and convincing people that horses are better than automobiles.It ain't going to happen.

It isn't right or wrong...it just is.

I'm already loving FTA and will certainly voice my support of it to all who will listen.

I just hope FTA is around until the last remaining enthusiast can turn off the lights.

And that,my friends is deep thinking for someone who has trouble understanding basic dish alignment. lmao

 

[KE4EST]

FTA itself will be around a long time for years to come in some shape or form.
You use the analogy of cars to horse and buggy.
That is not an accurate analogy though, in this situation.
FTA used to be analog receivers and satellites transmitting analog.
Things started moving toward Digital and is now almost all digital. Did people stop trying to see what was up there or what they could get for free, just because of the digital change?
No, they moved on to newer receivers and followed the technology. Satellites will be up for many many years to come. Technology may change and you may need a newer receiver of some sort, but it will still be there for a long long time.

On the other thing that got mentioned.
There are still a few CBer's out there, but that died many years ago for the most part.
Amateur radio is currently growing and for the same reason, the tech is changing and new radios and repeater systems are out to keep up.
There are tons of activities that attract young people into it and it is integrated into the internet now.
It is not just a bunch of old guys setting around tuning on old 1960's radios. It is that and a plethora of other things.

 

[truckracer]

FTA itself will be around a long time for years to come in some shape or form.
You use the analogy of cars to horse and buggy.
That is not an accurate analogy though, in this situation.
FTA used to be analog receivers and satellites transmitting analog.
Things started moving toward Digital and is now almost all digital. Did people stop trying to see what was up there or what they could get for free, just because of the digital change?
No, they moved on to newer receivers and followed the technology. Satellites will be up for many many years to come. Technology may change and you may need a newer receiver of some sort, but it will still be there for a long long time.

On the other thing that got mentioned.
There are still a few CBer's out there, but that died many years ago for the most part.
Amateur radio is currently growing and for the same reason, the tech is changing and new radios and repeater systems are out to keep up.
There are tons of activities that attract young people into it and it is integrated into the internet now.
It is not just a bunch of old guys setting around tuning on old 1960's radios. It is that and a plethora of other things.

Exactly, look how far we have come to this point. We used to use LNA'S that were 100 degree rated on c band only button feed dishes with hospital bed cranks to move the dish manually.
Now we have dvb s2, diseqc switches, blind scan and low noise lnbs.

 

[armadillo_115]

I don't mean to be argumentative here...just a healthy discussion.

KE4EST asked: 'Did people stop trying to see what was up there or what they could get for free, just because of the digital change?'
But actually,by and large they DID stop trying a long time agtherwise there wouldn't be abandoned dishes dotting the landscape.There would be American companies still manufacturing large dishes if there was a large enough demand.We wouldn't be limited to the 2 main Satellite service providers that dominate today.Googling for Sat parts/equipment wouldn't turn up links to companies that are mostly defunct.Heck.a noobie like me has to wade thru tons of dead Satellite groups and hacker sites before finding a group like this one.I almost gave up before I even got started in FTA.

I hope y'all are right that Satellite uplinkers still need and will fight for the bandwidth.Our FTA viewing alone weighs poorly against the wireless entities that desire our bandwidth when the politicos start making decisions.We need big money on our side as well !

This topic (and group as a whole) has been very enlightening! I've learnt more about the Satellite industry in the last couple of weeks than I acquired in my previous 53 years.I never had a BUD BITD.

We need the enthusiasm found here in the general population as well.

I am speaking with deep respect for all you folks who have kept the hobby going.You're diamonds amongst the quartz.

I'll shut up now.

 

[KE4EST]

Oh no worries was not meant to be argumentative.
I was just adding to the discussion.
I will add this. You talk about all the abandoned dishes. Those are left that way because those people were not true FTA feed hunters etc.
They moved on to get those thousands of channels with no effort, and nothing wrong with that if that is what you want.
I was talking about the guys that as a hobby seek out what others don't...the ones that are still alive from early 80's and capable are still hunting.
also like you plenty of new guys are still coming along.

 

[N6BY]

I agree. I got rid of paid programing because it all sucked! Discovery and TLC went all "reality". I don't care who the LardASSians or KardASSian's are or who they are dating either. Pay TV is all dumbed down for the masses.....

Discovery doesn't suck. Does every show always make everyone happy? No. That's why they have a variety of shows for different interests! No, I don't watch the show you're referring to but there are other shows that make it worthwhile for me, like Gold Rush, Bering Sea Gold, Deadliest Catch, etc. It just depends what your interests are.

I subscribe to cable because of National Geographic, Discovery, History Channel, HDNet Movies and a few other channels. Its actually a good deal in my area because we have fiber optic service and have TV, phone and internet for $130 a month total. Its a far better deal than Dish Network was, because it alone was $100 a month.

The only thing that 'sucks' to me is that you can't just pick the channels you want and not pay for all the rest in the bundle.

 

[danristheman]

The other day I went to Walmart the girl in electronic department had no clue about cable modems. I helped her out then I told her about my fta system she thought it was illegal I said no. Stealing from dish or from paytv companies is wrong. She got hooked on the fta bug wanted something at her apartment. She even wanted to come over with her boyfriend to check out my setup.

 

[Titanium]

The primary driving force behind the transition from the 8-10' dishes to Dish and Direct is the large dishes extremely poor WAF performance. This often overlooked measurement has been confirmed in countless studies. I believe that it could ultimately also lead to the elimination of the small dish subscription providers as we have often observed the WAF to be a major arguement in the attempts of HOAs to regulate dish size, quantity and placement. By comparison, the WAF on copper, fiber and wireless is quite high!

 

[fred555]

I was thinking about the days when Discovery was about.. well.. Discoveries.
And The Learning Channel (TLC) was about .. well... learning, Not Honey Boo Boo and some drunken Gypsy sisters.
And when the History Channel actually had ... well ... lots of actual History.

I know the programmers have to put out what sells, "reality", but the ratio of Discoveries, Learning and History vs scripted reality went below my personal threshold over the past 15 years. I'm happy you can find something enjoyable to watch but I couldn't.

The only thing that 'sucks' to me is that you can't just pick the channels you want and not pay for all the rest in the bundle.

I wish they would let you pick too. I suppose if they could make money that way, they would have.
If they went alacarte, I wonder how many of the lesser channels would disappear?

And a lot of the marketing is based on "We have more channels than the other guy."

 

[danristheman]

Brian what's waf?

 

[fred555]

This?

Wife Acceptance Factor, Wife Approval Factor, or Wife Appeal Factor[1] (WAF), are design elements that increase the likelihood a wife will approve the purchase of expensive consumer electronics products such as high-fidelity loudspeakers, home theater systems and personal computers. Stylish, compact forms and appealing colors are commonly considered WAF.[2] The term is a tongue-in-cheek play on electronics jargon such as "form factor" and "power factor" and derives from the gender stereotype that men are predisposed to appreciate gadgetry and performance criteria whereas women must be wooed by visual and aesthetic factors.[3]