first-water-powered-car

[navychop]

Ramy & voomvoom-

It takes energy to split water into hydrogen and oxygen. You then get energy back by using the hydrogen by combining it with oxygen, returning it to water. There are losses due to inefficiencies. You can't come out ahead. You will always use more energy than you can get out of the hydrogen.

Now, for mobile uses- You could have a stationary plant somewhere that uses up, say, 100 units of energy to produce 60 units of energy that can be used in the mobile unit (e.g.- car). This loss might be tolerable. But if the conversion from water to hydrogen takes place in the car, and takes more energy than you get out of it, you rapidly lose out. Only the batteries, constantly pumping more energy into the system keep it going. And they run down. You can't use up 100 units of energy to produce a lesser amount in that car, because you will not have produced enough energy to make up as much hydrogen as you have used, much less have enough left over to drive the car.

No conspiracies, just physics. You can't get something for nothing.

 

[gpflepsen]

The bee rapidly flaps it's wings, creating tiny vorticies behind the wing that provide the lift.

The wing exerts a force on the air, accelerating it into a vortex, F=ma. Then that other Newtonian law says that the air exerts the same force in the opposite direction on the wing thus allowing the wing to lift : the bumble bee.

 

[DannyR]

Watching the clip: turns H20 into HHO

*lol* Thats precious.

Yes, its possible to get hydrogen and oxygen back from water. However its IMPOSSIBLE to do so without an energy loss. This is basic chemistry. Combine hydrogen and oxygen and energy is released. To seperate them you MUST add energy back into the equation.

If you have a power source able to break apart the water molecules, it figures that you can probably use it more efficiently to run your motor directly.

--

Hydrogen is a nice clean fuel *by itself*. However hydrogen usually isn't found in a pure form, having already combined with other elements.

Thus it takes energy to obtain pure hydrogen. Its worth knowing that currently the most efficient methods of obtaining pure hydrogen is not by converting water, but by converting natural gas, so even a hydrogen economy won't magically clean up the environment as drilling for oil supplies must still occur. Natural gas reformation to hydrogen also loses 15% of the energy found in natural gas too.

 

[navychop]

There are various ideas/plans to use nuclear power, solar power, or microbes to "release" hydrogen from water. This could then be compressed or liquified or made a hydride or in some way be "volume reduced" to store and dispense to automobiles and trucks. They aren't efficient methods, and involve using more energy than will be obtained from the hydrogen. But they may be cost effective one day and certainly better for the environment.

But for sheer energy stored per unit of volume, liquid fuels are hard to beat. Hydrogen, other gases, and batteries don't approach gas or diesel in this regard. Hydrogen vehicles are expected, at least initially, to have rather short ranges and require more frequent refuelling. Hydrogen storage is a challenge. But there is some hope that some sort of "solid" storage method may reduce the volume required. One idea is the "tablet."

 

[Van]

Well solar, wind and water gravity powered systems would be atleast the cheaper way to go ( I would think insofar as the cost of mining/drilling and enviromental impact) with seperating hydrogen from oxygen as opposed to any petroleum or coal based power plant. There have been some significant advances in solar power in the last 20 years and the gap between efficient and afordable has narrowed significantly atleast on the private home owner end of the market.

Compressing the hydrogen into a tank may be the best bet until you look at the safety issue of every hydrogen vehicle with a compresion tank is now sitting on a rocket/bomb so there would definitely have to be some serious changes made to the tank design to prevent %100 any possibility of the control valves from being knocked or torn off. The other issue with the tanks to is the weight they currently have, recently I saw a new LP tank made out of a partialy clear resin compound though I cant remember where I saw it at but it was clear enough that you could see the LPG in its liquid state.

 

[navychop]

Actually, hydrogen is safer than gasoline. Think about it. Hydrogen vents skyward VERY rapidly. Gasoline spreads on the ground, often spreading fire as it goes, and burns for an extended period.

The entire hydrogen supply was burned or vented from the Hindenburg in something like 60 to 90 seconds. The only stuff burning after that was sheathing and burnable materials inside the ship.

 

[TNGTony]

This is great if true, but I have a big problem with anyone who claims you can get more power out of water than it takes to remove hydrogen from the H²O molecule. Covelent bonds are VERY strong. At leat that is without fission or fusion being placed in the mix.

See ya
Tony

 

[navychop]

Cold Fusion lives?

 

[TNGTony]

LOL... Get in a car wreck and level a city!

See ya
Tony

 

[Peter Parker]

I agree cdru. I'm 51 now, when I was probably 8-10 years old, I was told Helicopters were designed based on the way a Bumble Bee flies, and I was then told, this Myth. And, it seems just as reasonable now, as it did then.

Al

What seems reasonable. All I am telling you is that it was NEVER true that science thought that bumblebee flight was impossible. That was myth pure and simple.

I have no idea if this story is true but using the myth about science not understanding how a bumbleebee can fly is not valid.

BTW I am 51 as well---or will be soon and I remeber both hearing the story---and hearing it disproved back in the 5th grade.

 

[shanewalker]

That video is insane!

It's also funny because just a couple of months ago I stumbled across stories of Stanley Meyer, who purported to develop something quite similar in 1989.

Here's a Wikipedia entry on him:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Meyer

And here's an interesting video excerpt on him and his invention from Equinox, a BBC doc series in the late 80s:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3333992194168790800

Things that make one go hmmm, indeed.

Oh, and Stanley died under mysterious circumstances shortly after this documentary was produced...

 

[dantheman77]

Your brother might be kind and provide a little salt for your words when you eat them.



.

so your saying the car would work with salt water too???

 

[TNGTony]

Could you imagine the weather patern changes if we have all this hydrogen being burned in major cities? Can you say "Blade Runner"?

A little leason for those that don't know... when you burn hydrogen you get water vapor. Lots of water vapor.

See ya
Tony

 

[DannyR]

when you burn hydrogen you get water vapor. Lots of water vapor.

I'll just hook the exhaust up to a condensing unit, and then use the falling water to power a generator to run my home and create more hydrogen for later.