First Look: Dish Network's DTVPal Digital Converter

Malouff -
That's sort of what I was thinking, too.
Guide update messed with timer display.
My "foolproof" timer procedure (described
above but still being tested) may help
avoid this by using a "warm up" timer to
"take the hit" from the Guide update.

Also, see TVGOS update above ( link )

And now a word from our sponsor... - - >
 
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two timer trials

two trials, f100tcgh-n software

both manually set, once, 5 or 10 minutes into future, 5 min duration, box powered off state

1) previously tuned to station with good signal, turned on minute or two before and shows countdown, changed channel at set time, didn't turn off at end of duration

2) i have two antennas with switch, last tuned to station on antenna 1, set timer for station receivable on antenna 2 and powered off, switched to antenna 2, box comes on with error screen 'lost signal on channel so tune to something different', never see countdown, box doesn't change channel at set time, didn't turn off at end of duration

above suggests that timer may not function if comes up in any error state. one reason that box turns on maybe 2 minutes before channel change might be to give it time to get program data and get rid of that screen which might keep it from doing channel change just like error screen, just speculating.
 
DTVPal timer tests "half-time" update

I'm having trouble getting the DTVPal timer to either succeed consistently or fail consistently, so it's hard to isolate the causes, but I'm still working on it. I've noticed some of the same things johnpost reported. I still expect testing to continue through at least Monday or Tuesday before I can reach conclusions.

In the meantime, I've found another bug that someone else can confirm for me:

When you set a timer through the Guide for a show starting at Noon, then edit it, you may find it is set for 12:00am, not 12:00pm.
 
Another timer bug

Here's another one:

Create a timer any way you wish, from scratch or starting from Guide. Set it to Weekly, then adjust the starting time to something a few hours earlier than the current time (in other words, the timer is set to start operating 7 days from now). Be sure to remember the exact time you have set it for. Select DONE, then check the timer setting. You may find it is now set for 3 1/2 hours earlier than what you set it to. [??!?!?]

This happened on BOTH of my DTVPals, so someone else should be able to confirm this one.
 
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Maybe we're getting closer to figuring this out?

aha1tcgh-n
1812tcgh
still can't duplicate any of the reported timer problems
"aha1tcgh" - it can't be AHA1, it's beta designator. :confused:
Must have version F1.00 or F1.01
I have the same and mine doesn't turn on for any timers that I've tried.
Smith, P.: Sure, this can be true; pabeader & n0qcu have beta test units.

Everyone: The conclusion I draw is that success or failure with timers happens regardless of the software versions out there so far, whether aha1, f1.00, or f1.01.

So what accounts for the success for some and failure for others?
Best guesses: Weak signals or bad PSIP data sent out by broadcasters is causing DTVPal memory to get corrupted for some people but not for others. - OR - Conflicting time signals sent by broadcasters in some areas cause DTVPal to reset its clock and erase timers.

n0cqu: Try unplugging your DTVPal for 30 seconds, then plug back in and wait for reboot. (You won't lose settings.) Press SELECT to check if DTVPal clock is set to correct time and date. Set a timer on a station that appears to have a strong signal and good PSIP for just 15-20 min. or so in the future, but set Frequency to DAILY. Turn DTVPal off. If I'm right, this may get your DTVPal to turn on with the timer. If not, turn DTVPal on and check if the timer you set was erased (which is why I asked for a DAILY timer; otherwise, it wouid be correct behavior for a ONCE timer to disappear).
 
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i only get a few channels. they are only 10 miles away. the signal is strong all the time now. usually in the high 80s. It appears that the Pal uses the best time it can find. It will use the time from the psip on whatever channel you were tuned to last before you turned off the unit. Unless there is a better source. If you loose connection with the last channel you were tuned to, it appers to lose it's mind. I will attempt to test this once the wife wakes up.
 
Ha! (and Aha!)

If you lose connection with the last channel you were tuned to, it appears to lose its mind.
That made me laugh, AND it is also a good clue as to what we should be looking at in figuring out the timer problems. Thanks!

Also, since all your signal strengths are in the 80s this helps confirm one of the theories I'm working on, that people having no timer problems are getting all strong signals, all the time.

Incidentally, my current tests are running about 9 hours each; I'm finding the longer the time before the timer triggers, the larger the chance of failure. So testing is necessarily proceeding slowly at this point. Having 2 DTVPals to test at once helps some.
 
Seems to me it is not equal.
Dish never reuse same version to same SW or for different boxes. That's the RULE.

Would be binary available for compare ?

i'm sorry, i can't be any more specific, but...

i KNOW for a fact that
aha1 = f101
as far as software is concerned.
 
WCCO has fixed my DTVPal

DTVPal Timer Testing - Special Report (still not my final results).

OK, the bold title of this post (assuming you bothered to read it) is intended as sort of a "shocker tabloid headline." It has some truth in it, but it's a bit misleading.

The only very technical terms I'm using here are "PSIP" and "TVGOS." For anyone new here that doesn't know, PSIP refers to the data sent with digital TV broadcasts, including the upcoming broadcast schedule. This data is displayed by converter boxes' EPG (Electronic Program Guide), including the DTVPal's Guide. TVGOS is "TV Guide On Screen," and is only used by people who have a "guide-enabled device" (a small minority). It is a completely different system than PSIP, but DTVPal is somewhat involved with TVGOS also, because it helps analog TVGOS devices get data from digital stations.

Now, on with the report:

WCCO-DT (channel 4.1, "actual" channel UHF 32) is the local CBS affiliate that happens to transmit digital TVGOS (although I don't have any evidence that TVGOS transmission is directly involved in what happened to my DTVPal). I do know from my testing that the PSIP coming from WCCO (or perhaps it was some missing or random data inserted where PSIP was supposed to be) was one of the causes of some timer problems on my DTVPal, and those particular problems, at least, have disappeared.

Just to be clear, I am quite certain that there was NO DTVPal SOFTWARE UPGRADE transmitted to me, just other changes at WCCO that improved the PSIP they are sending.

Here's what happened:

On Wednesday, July 2, when I got my DTVPal, WCCO was sending out apparently normal PSIP.

Then, maybe late Friday or sometime Saturday, it began sending NO PSIP. This was not the default "DTV Program" PSIP, but "No Information Available," the same thing DTVPal puts in the Guide grid when a station's signal is too weak. But in this case, WCCO had a strong signal, there just was no PSIP, or, at least, none that the DTVPal could interpret.

During this time of no PSIP from WCCO, certain DTVPal problems were easy to reproduce. One in particular was the one where, after turning off the DTVPal for a only a short time, say 10 to 30 minutes, the Guide would always load data when it was turned back on. Also, the timers that had been set always had their channels changed in the timer list. A timer set for WCCO (4.1/32) would always change to KSTP (5.1/50). WFTC (29.1/21) would always change to KARE (11.1/35). A timer set for KSTC (45.1/44) would disappear completely. This was all easily reproducible, and happened every time the DTVPal was turned off and back on (although some delay was required; it didn't happen if the DTVPal was turned back on immediately). Also, I found I could delete WCCO from the DTVPal channel list, and that would stop these things from happening. (That was not a good permanent solution--I would lose my only CBS station when WCCO was deleted.)

I wish I had better recall of what was happening when WCCO was still sending PSIP data on July 2 and July 3. The DTVPal was new, and I didn't know what I was looking for yet. But I believe I was already having these same problems, at least part of the time.

Sometime today, Tuesday, July 8, WCCO's PSIP came back. And the excessive Guide loading, and the timer channel replacing and timer erasing have gone away.

So, it could be that WCCO became aware they were sending out bad PSIP, and then shut it down for a few days to track down and correct the problem.

Since WCCO also sends digital TVGOS, they should be very aware of the right way to do these things, so it's even possible they were intentionally sending out bad data for awhile, followed by no data for 3 days, for some sort of diabolical experiment. As dagger666 would say, "very suspicious." ;)

I'm doing more testing now to see if additional problems have also gone away. I had the most timer failures with Daily or Mon-Fri timers that I had set early in the evening to be triggered and recorded 9-12 hours later, just before I'd get up in the morning. That length of time seemed to give DTVPal enough time to get screwed up and fail.

Tonight's test will tell me just how much difference the change at WCCO has made.

Of course, even if all my timers work perfectly from now on, the DTVPal software should still be upgraded to resist the effects of bad broadcasts!
 
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