EHD questions for Hipkat/Boston or any experienced member

Umm. Believing post #4 was nice and neat. And to the point.
That is a trait of mine. To try to be helpful as a hobbiest. And a person who doesn't have a phud or ever planned a mission to mars. I do have a sohk and practical experience.
School of hard knocks. Who found and developed good practices conveyed to others. It worked.
In a one on one with a person who in a "it's okay?", or "yaaaa...go ahead it's cool" situation that could be wrong.
Yeah. I'll probably step up. And counter the perhaps bad procedure. Which is obvious here.
I would suggest getting that bad T fixed asap. Some phenomenal BT keyboards out there. Even small ones that would overlay your existing lappy one. Why stress? And perhaps a stop at the neighborhood cali. dispensary.
Taxes are stressy, yes. How the heck did that migrate here? And being the state of you can't even fart without wearing activated carbon shorts. No malice meant. Really.

Post 4. Short and to the point. And very very correct. No matter if you never stop completely at a right on red, drive 26 thru a school zone.
Please don't down a person who pop's up a quote here and there. Mine? Not just a quick Google and grab the first one.
If that has to be done, dude. To support a subject. Comes from a list of similar or identical subjects.
Do not remove or disconnect internal or external storage unless safe to do so.
Of course there are certain configurations where it may be acceptable.
If a utility or function of the connected device is available. Always use it.
Post #4 . Pretty slick.
(And don't my T work so good??).

PHUD and all aside. If you can't take a Bill Burr or perhaps Kat Williams stand up show. You cant take me either.
Valid gripes in a mix of wallflowers.

Known:
120GB hdd for example. Does never start out with 120GB of space. There is actually a larger amount on it.
Not like a 60 pg. notebook that gives you 120 pages of usable writing space.
Even during manufacture not all of the disk space is perfect. And is marked as such by it's firmware.
With excess and not reported, etc. physical territory on those platters. As it ages. "Blocks" and "Sectors" that are found and marked as bad....are. Because of the overhead.
You never see in your face that your 120GB drive suddenly shrinks to 118, 113, 104, etc.
Because as bad "pages" are identified, new ones are brought in to replace them. An analogy, of course. From "the bank" of overhead.
Not for a long, long time. Until one day it starts clicking on you. Or worse.
And. By simply divorcing electricity or disconnecting the communication bus w/o properly telling the drive electronics to close out its tasks and park the r/w heads, etc.
You are asking for trouble. Not today, not tomorrow, not while you sail through a rolling right on red to get your next phud to become yet another engineer. Hell. You don't have to wipe. But you do. Do you ever skip one? Bet not.
Option 1. Do it right. Option 2. Tap out.
Later. I tap out of this one. Do it your way and rock on.

Yes, I know it's good to counter a bad procedure but the problem is those options aren't available and will probably confuse the OP more. As for the bad T, none of these companies that sell the keys have responded yet as they do not have phone numbers and the only way to contact them is using a form on their website. The reason I need a response from them before ordering is while I have found the correct mounting style for the key, they appear to have both a Dell XPS 15 9570 and a Dell XPS 15 9570 Touch which appears to have two different parts. I had never seen a Touch model and neither has either Dell's Support or Google so I don't know if the Touch means one has a touch screen display or not as I do have a 15.6" Ultra HD 4K 3840x2160 Touch display even though I hate using the touch features of the screen.

Originally I was thinking of buying a new same Part number keyboard and just borrowing a key but the problem with that is the same part number can have different vendors which all might have the same keys when physically looking at it, the way it attaches is different between each vendor and there is no way to tell which vendor I actually have or which vendors part I will get and that's talking about the keyboard only. The other issue is you know there is the blinking cursor when typing a message, only thing is right now it works but a lot of times, it was invisible so I couldn't even tell where my current cursor position is and then if I am typing, I could be typing this sentence and the next thing I know, it inserts itself like at the word "PHUD" which is actually something in the quoted section you wrote and the typing would continue from there which seems to be caused by house the mouse pointer can drift and land somewhere which I can understand but how it clicked in that area is a mystery. The only way I even know where I was typing is using the undo or the other arrow a few times as I will see where what I was typing is not even a word and then continue from there.

And you know Dell XPS 15 9570s suck in the thermal design department so basically the CPU will be running at 90C-100C most of the time which is fine after rebooting but a few hours later, the computer will be extremely sluggish because the CPU has gone into thermal throttling which makes the CPU run at 90-100% as Windows will basically lag in everything and things will freeze + stop responding and the only way to fix it is to restart as it is not the memory or anything else. Undervolting is one solution but Windows 11 due to all the new security features appears to block things like throttlestop from working since it will not give access to the MSR if you turn on any virtualization features. There are sometimes when the lag will fix itself and the CPU % goes back down as seen here since when I typed the previous message, it was stuck at 99% CPU and lagging and also showing freezing in the browser tab and I did not restart afterwards, that's probably why Unix based OSes are better while the only real good thing Windows has is really the library of applications which is only available for Windows. You would think that Windows 10/11 would have improved in stability and performance by now but I think the only way Windows will be good is if they start using a Unix based kernel where I think is where most of the issues originated from:
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which can be a day or two later but ofcourse the same issue will still come back even after the fix so basically I will try restarting using the restart option after one day or so but if I needed the computer like I am doing something that requires one session that I am unable to resume, then I have no choice but to just use it without restarting. I have managed to get the "T" key working by using a piece of clear packing tape on the left side of the key so atleast it works when striking it once and won't fly somewhere afterwards from the rubber cup that acts like a spring in the middle, other than it looking like a unbalanced scale with the left heavier than the right side.

Then it doesn't help when the forum software randomly decides to all of a sudden, the browser tab stops responding or it will say "Oops, something went wrong" and then it will say I do not have permission to access the server. In the last two, the firewall for the forum basically blocked me and the only fix is to delete the cookies and data for this site in the browser which obviously will make the forums work again but in a logged out state so I have to login again. As for the taxes, I am just telling you that due to time constraints as the data for taxes is what I am working on and was only supposed to briefly take a break here when reading the posts.

So when you add up all those, it does get frustrating especially when you are trying to finish the post fast and get things over with which was supposed to take only minutes but now a few hours of time is gone for that one post. I also sleep 1-2 hours every 2 days which used to be easier at a younger age.

So while what you said about post #4 is correct, it's only possible if those options were available which was why I was trying to explain why it wasn't with the DISH DVR's, no different than I wish it showed the uptime after the last reboot or atleast show a time stamp of the last reboot.

A 120GB HDD will always be bigger than 120GB but those are usually hidden and ofcourse the advertised capacity is usually the unformatted capacity and not the formatted capacity. I liked the old days when people were actually able to low level format the drive and there were tools like Peter Norton's non-destructive Calibrate that did exactly that or there was Steve Gibson of Gibson Research who had something called spinrite which took forever to do that. The format options in OSes are usually high level formats. a 120GB drive is not 120GB in reality anyways as not sure exactly when, originally it used to be 8 bytes=1K but then later, storage manufacturers decided that 10 bytes=1K so drive when sold will show a bigger capacity than it really is. The clicking you had mentioned reminds me of the infamous IBM Deskstar 75GXP where every drive made in that series will all suffer the clicking death and how it got the name DeathStar. In my experience with drives failing, I never got to experience the click of death yet as they all had problems and a sudden death without any warning.

As far as DISH goes, it seems with the state of devices, they all do not really get powered off so it is still powered on even in the standby state or what we think is off so one little mistake and you can literally kill the electronic device and hopefully not the data on it as fixing the hardware is a minor issue compared to the data loss but with DISH, you will eventually not have access to the data anyways one way or another since it only works with the same account # so you can imagine if you decide to cancel service, cancel service and then sign up again in the future, DISH no longer supporting EHDD by turning that feature off in the software or DISH somehow went under. In all those instances, it's going to be the same as kissing goodbye to the data even though it's on the EHDD so there data is there, corrupted or not but there is no way to use the data or make it work so basically all you have are a worthless bricks assuming you will not reformat and use them for something else but that is still destroying all the data. And ofcourse, when the device is external instead of internal, there will always be people out there who will disconnect it from USB without thinking if it is right or wrong because remember USB is marketed to people as being a connection that you can plug in and disconnect while the device is still powered on which unlike things like SIM Cards and MicroSD cards on a phone, they even warn you to never do that as it will damage either the cards or the phone if you did that.

And then you have this...

In any case, with DISH DVR's when one does not have options and remember the only way to turn off power is to unplug it from the wall as it is still on even in the off/standby mode or else it won't be able to display the screen saver on the HDMI output and also record while it is in off/standby mode. But if you think about it, the EHDD's should be safe to remove since you will not suffer data corruption unless there was something written to the EHDD since the only available options available is to play the recordings including pausing them - whether you watch it or not is another issue and the only time I can think of that would involve the EHDD's in a writing mode are when you transfer recordings to it from the
DVR and remember with that, the way DISH DVR's are designed is that until it finishes 100% and completed successfully, you will not even see that recording on the EHDD and still on the DVR's own internal HDD which is probably why in this scenario, it would be safe to disconnect because what data will you lose as the partial recording will obviously be deleted anyways automatically when the original on the internal HDD will still be available until you 100% successfully transferred the recording to the EHDD which meant it had already finished with the writing operations.
 
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Okay friends. The latest.....

Got my package today. Attached that WD 2 TB ext. hd to my laptop. The format came as NTFC. (with 1.81 tb available.)
Connected that baby to the first port on Wenter brand powered usb hub. 5 ports. 4 of them are for usb devices and the last is to charge a device. 5 individual on/off buttons. Ports are not numbered. So, I used the closest one to the section where cables are attached. Let's call that port 1. Pressed the on/off ind. button. I heard the WD Element spinning gently.
Connected its usb cable to top usb port behind Hopper3. (I am using the bottom port for antenna.Called air tuner?). I fired up the tv and Hopper3. Nothing on tv that Hopper recognizes ehd!! Ugh, bad sign.

Went to dvr. Picked a folder I created and named 'Nature". Bunch of Hopper created folders in there and each holds different numbers of episodes. Selected options/manage recordings. Highlighted one folder and clicked 'transfer to exd. hd'. Ugh number 2!!
Hopper showed 'ext. hd not available. Plug a usb drive into one of the ports' (not exact words).

I switched the usb ports behind hopper3. Now usb hub is attached to the bottom usb port on Hopper3. Same steps. Nope. Hopper is still not wanna dance.
Turned tv and Hopper off, unlugged the surge protector. Waited about 25 seconds. Plugged it back. That didn't solve the problem either. Still no recognition.

Decided to use a different port on the hub. Connected WD to port #2. pushed the on/off button. Few seconds later tv screen showed Hopper was ready to format it!! No idea why port 1 didn't work but port 2 did.
I formatted WD.
Back to dvr. Same steps. Picked about 9 recordings and started transferring them. Very slow process. Perhaps, that's normal. It took about 18 minutes. After it was finished, I picked a bunch from the same folder. Now, the progress bar is showing 198 minutes left. Guess I need to be patient and let Hopper do its thing.

After transferring what I want I will pick one show from ex hd and watch/delete.
I will leave my impressions as always.

Thank you folks for all the help I received..
Glad to hear you got the package.

The 1.81TB which is translated as 8 bit or 1024 = 1 is actually 2.0TB because storage manufacturers uses 10 bit addressing so that the number of bytes is divided into 1000 instead as I am sure when you look at it in bye size, it will start with a 2 so for example, 403,762,810,880 bytes would be translated as 403GB by storage manufacturer standards but when you use normal computer definitions which is taking the same number and dividing it by 1024, it would be 394.299620GB, I guess marketing would make you think the drive has a bigger capacity than reality.

As for the recognization, it depends on the drive as what happens is you will see the lights blink of the EHDD which can either be seconds or up to maybe 5-10 minutes before you get a successful message that External Device x is connected. If you press DVR, the detection part will not continue and you will never see the device show up as it seems like pressing DVR does something to the detection processes if it did not finish. When it doesn't finish, you can disconnect the EHDD or turning it off in your case and back on and then it will do the detection again but do not hit DVR until you get the message and there are times when it won't show the message and the only fix is to reboot the hopper with the EHDD connected which may or may not work but if the EHDD is disconnected (off button on the hub), then rebooting the hopper and after the hopper starts up, connecting it (pressing on button on the hub), then it should detect successfully. The older WD My Passport Ultra has a bright white led that can be easily seen far away but the current My Passport model has only a very dim light that is visible only if you are maybe 6 inches from it so it would be hard to tell if it is blinking or not. Not sure how the lights are on a WD Elements.

I hope Port 1 is not defective as when you have time since the drive is formatted and usable, you can see if port 1 will detect the drive successfully and allow you to access it.
 
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The transfer is a very slow process. You really don't want to transfer more than, say, ten shows at a time. Not only is doing more very slow but you have a better chance of corruption in the transfer. Even if you have hundreds to transfer patience is a better virtue. Keep in mind that you don't want to transfer more than a total of 999 programs to the EHD. While the programs will actually transfer to the EHD you will not be able to see anything over that 999 programs. It is a limitation of the system.
I have a question, I know it's not good to transfer more than x shows at a time but since like for shows with multiple episodes, you will have the transfer the entire show so what if there was like 100 episodes for that show, wouldn't that also be a problem and how would one actually do the transfer in that case as you can't choose the episodes to transfer so it's all or none. And in the case of 999 programs to the EHD, are they talking about 999 individually displayed items or 999 total items where like if you had episode folders, you had like 20 of them and each of them contained 50 episodes which is 1,000. Does that count as exceeding the 999 programs?
 
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Hold it right there, Navychop!! The fat lady still sings until Bobby quits answering my questions!!:bluesbros

one interesting observation. There were few minutes left before the transfer of about 10 episodes today. The progress bar stalled. The minutes left stayed the same. I waited about 30 minutes. Nothing. So, I went back selected a bunch to transfer. The bar showed 0 minutes left. 1/2 hr later still the same. I rebooted Hopper3 by unplugging and plugging it back. Picked the same shows. They are moving to the ehd now.
Yes and there is a workaround for that which was shared by bookworm370 that I successfully was able to use the other day except in my case, it was because the transfer failed with errors which they call successful even right after rebooting. Before you do the transfer, play any recording on the Hopper internal HDD and then play any recording on the external HDD(s) - I don't know if it has to be done on only the EHDD you are transferring to or all EHDD's that are connected and then basically make sure you stop out of the recordings you want to transfer and then do your transfer, this apparently allows the transfers without the hanging issue or errors as it clears out some buffers.

So anyways, when you have a stuck process like that, it means somehow the Hopper has stopped communications with the EHDD as on the Hopper, you cannot add to a existing transfer until that transfer is finished so even if you selected new things to transfer and click on transfer, it doesn't actually add it to a queue to start after the existing transfer is finished so when there is a transfer done that has not completed, you will get that same progress screen for the first transfer whether you select DVR followed by other devices or in the later case, you select recordings and then transfer where it will still ask you to select the target EHDD except the watch screen is still the progress bar for the original transferred that stalled and not the one you just were trying to transfer. Also, the way to tell if the transfer is working or stalled is the time remaining should change periodically every few seconds as the percentage bar should also move slowly. Also, before you click on watch, sometimes it helps to let the progress bar show the initial green to make sure it even started as sometimes it will hang without progressing.
 
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I have a question, I know it's not good to transfer more than x shows at a time but since like for shows with multiple episodes, you will have the transfer the entire show so what if there was like 100 episodes for that show, wouldn't that also be a problem and how would one actually do the transfer in that case as you can't choose the episodes to transfer so it's all or none. And in the case of 999 programs to the EHD, are they talking about 999 individually displayed items or 999 total items where like if you had episode folders, you had like 20 of them and each of them contained 50 episodes which is 1,000. Does that count as exceeding the 999 programs?
Because you can't transfer a folder, just the programs within it, each event counts as 1. So, using your scenario if you had 20 folders with 50 programs in each, you are going to see just 999 out of that 1000. Mind you that extra one is still on the EHD but you will be unable to see it unless you delete one of the others or transfer that other back to the Hopper.
 
you can't choose the episodes to transfer so it's all or none.
I was able to! For instance, a Hopper3 created folder named 'nature'. (Not one of my own.) Episodes from different seasons are in there. The folder icon is colored and how many shows are included inside that folder is shown at the right bottom section of the folder.

I opened that folder, selected 10-12 at a time and transferred them.
Only one recording from that folder wouldn't transfer! It plays without issues. When I attempt again, same warning comes to the screen.
Not the end of the world since all these recordings have different subjects. (It would be annoying if the storyline continued with the same subject.)

It took me all day. I managed to empty almost 65% space from Hopper3. Now, it shows 23%. I am happy about that.

WD ehd is still attached to port 2 on the hub. I pressed the on/off button next to port 2. It is quiet and no more spinning. I might try port 1 (which was initially unresponsive) to see what happens.

Bobby mentioned that you cannot create folders with ehd. I was curious and tried. Yes, ehd won't show it. But, hopper3 dvr will! (Between two options, Hopper3 and ehd 1 I selected ehd 1 when I did this.)
I ended up deleting that folder.
 
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I was able to! For instance, a Hopper3 created folder named 'nature'. (Not one of my own.) Episodes from different seasons are in there. The folder icon is colored and how many shows are included inside that folder is shown at the right bottom section of the folder.

I opened that folder, selected 10-12 at a time and transferred them.
Only one recording from that folder wouldn't transfer! It plays without issues. When I attempt again, same warning comes to the screen.
Not the end of the world since all these recordings have different subjects. (It would be annoying if the storyline continued with the same subject.)

It took me all day. I managed to empty almost 65% space from Hopper3. Now, it shows 23%. I am happy about that.

WD ehd is still attached to port 2 on the hub. I pressed the on/off button next to port 2. It is quiet and no more spinning. I might try port 1 (which was initially unresponsive) to see what happens.

Bobby mentioned that you cannot create folders with ehd. I was curious and tried. Yes, ehd won't show it. But, hopper3 dvr will! (Between two options, Hopper3 and ehd 1 I selected ehd 1 when I did this.)
I ended up deleting that folder.
You are right that one can transfer selected episodes from the folders as one just needs to go inside the folder first before hitting options then Manage recordings. I have one recording with the incorrect title so I was thinking of moving everything to the EHDD as it is adding 3 new recordings per day, new episode daily with 2 being re-runs of the same episode daily. I am just hoping your port 1 works since it's bad to have a item when port(s) don't all work. You can create folders on the Hopper 3 internal HDD but I had tried in the past and also just tried it where I first select the EHDD, 3 in my case, hit options, then manage folders where it will show existing folders with names that are on the Internal HDD and I click on Create Folder and then named it 1, the created folder is on the Hopper 3's internal HDD and not on the EHDD 3.
 
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I have a 4 TB EHD which is 98% full with 254 program tiles and 1,858 programs, so the 999 limit doesn't apply to total number of programs.
Correct, consolidated programs appear as one tile. So, 30 Black Lists count as one tile. What I have found to show more is to switch out the sort order on the EHD display. If you show by date recorded, you show the latest 999 recorded shows. If you show by name, you show the first 999 shows alphabetically. So, there is a way to see even more. But it's still a ton to look at.

If I'm sure I have something, I just do a search for the title on the search bar, and if it's recorded, it will generally pop up as recorded. Sometimes, it doesn't work, as maybe the title I'm using isn't exactly what it is on the EHD.

But if you are considering recording a new show, you can call up the record options screen and hit info. If you already have it (regardless of the 999 limit) it will show up on the Recordings tab at the top of the display. So if I want to record something like the X-Men, I just go to the record screen and tab up to recordings if it's there. If X-Men is on the EHD, it will show it there regardless if it's past the 999 limit.

Or I just record it anyway, transfer it to the EHD and then show the recording on the EHD by the date recorded. If there is another, it will pull it into a consolidated tile. I can look at which one might be in HD or SD or recorded from a non-commercial channel or regular commercial channel. So, I just delete the one that's the least attractive.
 
WD ehd is still attached to port 2 on the hub. I pressed the on/off button next to port 2. It is quiet and no more spinning. I might try port 1 (which was initially unresponsive) to see what happens.
You might want to wait and listen to the drives. All my WD MyBook enclosures will auto-spindown after a while. Also, the enclosure I used for my 6TB drive will also spin down if not accessed in a little while.

This is the enclosure I used for my 6TB surveillance drive that I used. It's can handle a lot more R/W cycles, but it was a cheap buy, so no real reason I chose it. I would also not spend the money on 7200rpm drives. The USB 2 interface even won't keep up with 5400. The surveillance drive spins at a weird 6xxx rpm speed. But the enclosure will also spin it down.

Generally, the Hopper won't tell you, but if you call up a recording or directory on an attached Joey and the drive is spun down, you'll get a message on the joey to wait until the drive spins up.

26 bucks, and I like it because, unlike many HDD enclosures, this one has an activity light on the front so I can see if it's spun down, running or transferring. Different colors for down, spinning or flashing if accessing. I also like it because it has an internal fan you can turn on or leave off. I just leave mine on.

Fideco External Enclosure
 
Thanks Bookworm370.

Here's today's question.....
If you have an older internal drive from old desktop or laptop and you have no reason to recycle it you buy an enclosure like the one you suggested. $27 gives you more space to save your files.
If you buy the same enclusure and 8 TB WD internal drive for $130 your total bill is $157. Another option is the same size and brand ext. hard drive that costs #160.

So, what is a better option if you don't have a spare internal drive (old) to use?
 
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If you buy the same enclusure and 8 TB WD internal drive for $130 your total bill is $157. Another option is the same size and brand ext. hard drive that costs #160.
Two things.
  1. There is a limit of 7TB max EHD on the H3.
  2. You can buy a disk inside an enclosure for about the same as the drive alone.
I got a smashing deal on a 6TB Seagate with build-in USB3 hub and highly recommend it.
 
Thanks Bookworm370.

Here's today's question.....
If you have an older internal drive from old desktop or laptop and you have no reason to recycle it you buy an enclosure like the one you suggested. $27 gives you more space to save your files.
If you buy the same enclusure and 8 TB WD internal drive for $130 your total bill is $157. Another option is the same size and brand ext. hard drive that costs #160.

So, what is a better option if you don't have a spare internal drive (old) to use?
Krell answered the question of the 7TB total limit on all connected EHD's. But they don't make 7TB drives that I'm aware of unless you get SMR drives (bad news for PC's and servers but probably OK for an EHD), but I'm not sure if they even make 7s in those. It seems the industry went up by 1TB for years and then decided to skip seven and go to 8TB and above.

It depends on how much available spinning storage you want at any time. It's been documented that even with 6TB drives, you can easily exceed the 999 title limit for the directory screen. If you want 6TB, getting reasonably refurbed 3TB drives might make more sense, and then you can mitigate the 999 show display limit. I went the 6TB route and didn't find out until I started to load it up about only displaying 999 in the directory. At the moment, I have the 6TB, two 2TB's and 3 1TB drives. So, with the switched hub, I can use either the 6TB or any one of the 1TB drives. Or, if I drop off the 6TB, I can use any three of the aforementioned drives.

Oh, and for another limit, unless it was abolished, there is also a limit of three physical EHDs connected at any one time. So, 1+1+2 will work. 1+1+2+2 won't. So, I classify my drives as per genre. Christmas shows stay spun down until 'She that must be obeyed' starts to record and watch her Christmas shows. Concerts, News and Current event broadcasts, a couple of others and the 'catch-all' 6TB drive that is mostly just box office or older TCM movies.
 
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