EchoStar/Dish raises doubts about 'ability to continue as a going concern'

[nelson61]

November is only 3 months away, so we shall know relatively soon if they have successfully rolled over their debt and at what cost.

"Because we do not currently have committed financing to fund our operations for at least twelve months from the issuance of these condensed consolidated financial statements, substantial doubt exists about our ability to continue as a going concern. Based on our cash forecast, we do not currently have the necessary Cash on Hand and/or projected future cash flows to fund fourth quarter 2024 operations or the November 2024 debt maturity. Additionally, our cash forecast contains estimates and assumptions, and we cannot predict the timing of all cash receipts and expenditures with certainty. Variances in timing from our estimates and assumptions may adversely impact our liquidity prior to the fourth quarter. To address our capital needs, we are in active discussions with funding sources to raise additional capital. We cannot provide assurances that we will be successful in obtaining such new financing necessary for us to have sufficient liquidity. Further, if we are not successful in these endeavors, our ability to fund the expenditures necessary to meet some of our future FCC build-out requirements and wireless customer growth initiatives will be adversely affected."

Second Quarter 2024 SEC 10K Link

 

[nelson61]

 

[navychop]

Thank you very much for posting the actual statements made.

I hope they get funding somehow. It would be especially nice if Dish continues business.

 

[dishdude]

Dish is not shutting down anytime soon, they still have 6 million satellite subs and that side of the business is profitable. My best guess is there will be a reorg and the mobile business is sold off.

 

[GuyWhoMoves]

Dish is not shutting down anytime soon, they still have 6 million satellite subs and that side of the business is profitable. My best guess is there will be a reorg and the mobile business is sold off.

I would like an explanation of what is the "mobile business" Sorry, if this has been explained b4. I will tell all once I know this.

 

[dishdude]

I would like an explanation of what is the "mobile business" Sorry, if this has been explained b4. I will tell all once I know this.

I would consider it 2 parts, Boost as an MVNO and separately the 5G towers and spectrum.

 

[GuyWhoMoves]

I would consider it 2 parts, Boost as an MVNO and separately the 5G towers and spectrum.

OK, here is the truth. We have a RV and in March 2022, we switched the satellite receiver from Direct TV to Dish. We purchased the receiver for $3700 and the equipment for about $900. At the end of 2022, we purchased a house in Junction City, OR and the RV is now in storage, and has not been used. The RV is in storage with 30AMP service. For a number of years we spent the winters in Casa Grande, AZ. So what does all this mean to us, that is a very big question. On the surface it looks like we could be screwed.

 

[dishdude]

OK, here is the truth. We have a RV and in March 2022, we switched the satellite receiver from Direct TV to Dish. We purchased the receiver for $3700 and the equipment for about $900. At the end of 2022, we purchased a house in Junction City, OR and the RV is now in storage, and has not been used. The RV is in storage with 30AMP service. For a number of years we spent the winters in Casa Grande, AZ. So what does all this mean to us, that is a very big question. On the surface it looks like we could be screwed.

Dish satellite service isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I'd predict you're good through the end of the decade.

 

[telstar_1]

Looks like it's leveling off at ~5,000,000

 

[nelson61]

Dish satellite service isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I'd predict you're good through the end of the decade.

Just their satellite tv group has something like 8 billion in annual sales. It going to be around for a long long time.

 

[MikeD-C05]

IF DISH satellite keeps losing about a million subs each year they have less than 6 years till there is no more subs- unless they merge with Direct tv subs then maybe a little longer. Because they are not growing new subs. So 2030 or sooner.

Sling TV might continue on its own. Only 2 million Subs and they change all the time as people come in and leave the service. My advice is to take Sling TV and make it as good as You Tube TV with the good color guides, channel logos, etc & add some order to the channels. Right now the Guide is a mess of mixed channels and free view channels. I would like it better if you could clean some of that up.

Make it more like DISH satellite guides and menus and just change the name to Sling TV and you would have it. There is one thing that Sling TV has that most streaming services don't have. The ability to break up the programming into smaller groups and pay for what you want. (Like DISH Flex pack with sub packs) The ota locals part is good if you can afford the Air Tv devices and install your own antenna. The no extra FEES is the best part to me.

 

[Bruce]

IF DISH satellite keeps losing about a million subs each year they have less than 6 years till there is no more subs- unless they merge with Direct tv subs then maybe a little longer. Because they are not growing new subs. So 2030 or sooner.

Actually, it is when they do not have enough subscribers to be profitable, so, a little sooner then 2030.

Same for DirecTV, who is believed to be right around 10 Million subscribers currently, they are losing about 2 Million a year, so in about 2-3 years, they will no longer be profitable.

I have seen stories that YTTV is about to turn profitable, they have 8 Million subs, also do not have a lot of costs that a Traditional Service has, along with less channels, if it takes over 8 Million to be profitable, what does that mean for Cable/Satellite?

 

[Yespage]

2nd Quarter is out, lost $205,591,000, which is up from the first quarter, where they lost $107,376,000.

All services lost subscribers except for Sling, whose gains helped offset Dish’s losses.

Once again, TV Services had a profit, their other ventures is causing this downtrend.

EchoStar Announces Financial Results for the Three and Six Months Ended June 30, 2024

/PRNewswire/ -- EchoStar Corporation (NASDAQ: SATS) announced its financial results for the three and six months ended June 30, 2024. Six Months Ended June 30,...

www.prnewswire.com

EchoStar Announces Financial Results for the Three Months Ended March 31, 2024

/PRNewswire/ -- EchoStar Corporation (NASDAQ: SATS) announced its financial results for the three months ended March 31, 2024. Three Months Ended March 31,...

www.prnewswire.com

The big problem is the mobile numbers. They can't afford to be losing revenue there if that is the direction the company is supposed to be heading. I think Echostar needs a cell phone guy very near the helm to manage that.

 

[Bruce]

The big problem is the mobile numbers. They can't afford to be losing revenue there if that is the direction the company is supposed to be heading. I think Echostar needs a cell phone guy very near the helm to manage that.

They need to show that the service ( all of their wireless holdings) can be profitable, so someone(s) will loan them the money before the first debt payment is due in November, not just to cover that payment, but next year’s and future operations

And all I keep hearing is Dish/Boost is the #4 Provider, like that is a good thing, it is not.

This is just the United States rounded off

#3 T-Mobile 98 Million
#4 Boost 7 Million ( down from 9 Million since Dish took over)

 

[Yespage]

They need to show that the service ( all of their wireless holdings) can be profitable, so someone(s) will loan them the money before the first debt payment is due in November, not just to cover that payment, but next year’s and future operations

And all I keep hearing is Dish/Boost is the #4 Provider, like that is a good thing, it is not.

It is a good thing. It means there is a tremendous amount of growth. But Echostar/Dish appear to be fumbling it. If they doubled the subs, that'd change the math greatly, but there is no growth and it is actually contracting. And they continue to not monetize the 5G spectrum.

 

[Bruce]

It is a good thing. It means there is a tremendous amount of growth. But Echostar/Dish appear to be fumbling it. If they doubled the subs, that'd change the math greatly, but there is no growth and it is actually contracting. And they continue to not monetize the 5G spectrum.

The question is, how do they do that?

We are already in the 2nd or 3rd marketing attempt since Dish took over, the results have been a loss of almost two million subscribers.

If they start to receive a large increase of new customers, the top three will notice, better their deals, snuff out Dish.

 

[MikeD-C05]

The question is, how do they do that?

We are already in the 2nd or 3rd marketing attempt since Dish took over, the results have been a loss of almost two million subscribers.

If they start to receive a large increase of new customers, the top three will notice, better their deals, snuff out Dish.

So what do you advise Charlie to do in this situation? Should he sell off his cell phone business , towers, spectrum ? Makes the debt problem go away, but he is still going to lose his satellite business sooner than later. Sling TV isn't enough to keep him afloat. How does he make his remaining company profitable for the long term?

 

[Yespage]

The question is, how do they do that?

Convince people to use Boost and Sling, preferably as a pairing. Market Boost and Sling well instead of poorly as Dish has typically done.

If people actually own Apple Watches, Dish/Echostar can sell Boost, but you need the right people to do it.

 

[dishdude]

How have they built out all this spectrum and have no way to monetize it? Why haven't they launched a home internet product with video delivery?

 

[Bruce]

So what do you advise Charlie to do in this situation?

The only choice is Chapter 11.

Should he sell off his cell phone business , towers, spectrum ?

Cannot sell the majority of spectrum due to FCC rules of when they can do so.

Makes the debt problem go away,

Even if he gets a loan(s), investors, whatever, the debt is not going away, trading in what they owe now for a possible higher form of interest debt later.

but he is still going to lose his satellite business sooner than later.

I do not know how many subscribers Dish needs to still be profitable, along with investing in the company (TV side) to keep it running.

Sling TV isn't enough to keep him afloat. How does he make his remaining company profitable for the long term?

That is why the 2nd Quarter report was terrible, Dish still lost almost 200,000 subscribers, while Sling gained, but you still lost the higher revenue that Dish subs provide.