EchoStar/Dish raises doubts about 'ability to continue as a going concern'

[AZ.]

You have services like MAX, Peacock, Paramount plus and even Disney + that are all not doing well and most of them have already raised their rates a few times already.

Except for Peacock (which I watch WWE Wrestling events on) the others I sign up for a month and cancel them, then go back and subscribe again a few months later and watch the new stuff they added... and then cancel again. If you are happy to wait you can watch everything and only have to be subscribed for 4 months out of 12.

My wife did upset me though the other day, she changed our Netflix account from the one with 4K included down to the basic one that is given to T Mobile subscribers. I would often use the 4K stuff to test out equipment. She didn't tell me she did it until I was looking for a new 4K / Atmos Title that was supposed to be good. Oh well I will survive.

WWE is moving to Netflix in January, so after that won't need Peacock anymore either.

Dont worry they way I see it every streaming company as soon as the eliminate the middle man, and will jack prices up right to where we are now, and will control the market and all content!

 

[Yespage]

Exactly. They were publicly TRAINED not to stay by the general loss of good regard for the provider (vs. competitor) owing to their customer-negative business practices, said training then being REINFORCED by increasing freebies handed out for switching providers. IOW DiSH found itself attempting to PURCHASE goodwill through, like with addiction, dumping increasing amounts of "crack" on new signers, to compensate for its having thrown away traditional values of customer-centered service in a prioritization of signups over servicing. Death spiral. Sure, there would regardless today be effects of "cord cutting," etc., but they would in all likelihood have been able to remain a "going concern" for years longer despite market difficulties simply by having done the viewing public right in the first place.

I rarely saw people leaving here because of customer service. Generally the angriest people were complaining about not getting a sweetheart deal. And if anything, Dish's chat team, both here and online was awesome!

 

[Yespage]

Dont worry they way I see it every streaming company as soon as the eliminate the middle man, and will jack prices up right to where we are now, and will control the market and all content!

It doesn't need to be evil corp raises prices. It can be as simple as Amazon is spending a fortune to broadcast one stupid NFL game a week! I don't want my rates increasing for that. But we are, oddly enough, going back to bundling already, but it is a bit worse as it is more fragmented regarding who has access to what. I'd say access to older content is increasing, but new content is decreasing, and sports are being split apart.

What I see coming is ads only packages, with no future option for DVR'ing, without a notable premium.

 

[AZ.]

It doesn't need to be evil corp raises prices. It can be as simple as Amazon is spending a fortune to broadcast one stupid NFL game a week! I don't want my rates increasing for that. But we are, oddly enough, going back to bundling already, but it is a bit worse as it is more fragmented regarding who has access to what. I'd say access to older content is increasing, but new content is decreasing, and sports are being split apart.

What I see coming is ads only packages, with no future option for DVR'ing, without a notable premium.

You said evil, I call it greedy! Find it funny people hammer pro ball players making millions yet they are the top .01%, yet golden parachutes, and CEOs and CFOs make a thousand times more than the average worker who works for them.(and not a peep) Again, take a loss now so you eliminate all competition and middleman, control all content between just a few companies...

 

[Yespage]

Worked for Uber.

 

[telstar_1]

with all of the scams & hacking of credit cards, banks, etc., who can blame them
I know some people that rarely purchase anything on line, but have had their credit card used for purchases they didn't make

I wouldn't say it's just for reasons of security, though regular credit card use itself is much lower for older seniors. Mainly it's simply in having to deal with both technical aspects such as using a "smart" TV and in managing disparate subscriptions. They really just want to watch TV, and something like DiSH or cable is itself quite techy enough, thanks.

 

[meStevo]

What I don't see coming however, is those content providers closing up their direct to consumer shops and sticking with the middlemen. They will adjust, bundle and merge to find the right mix to create a sustainable business model. They aren't going back to only the middlemen, and as a result consumers are leaving for more attractive options and alternatives. Just like the traditional services they are replacing it will take time but they will be profitable, in whatever form they settle on going forward.

Those services are built for the 'sub for x month(s) and stop' customer and churn level that is fatal to the traditional companies and that is bad news for those who prefer those older services. As I said before, it remains to be seen what will be left when that market hits bottom. We're not there yet (not even close it seems) and as a result we have threads like this and open discussions of their business no longer being viable as-is.

 

[telstar_1]

I rarely saw people leaving here because of customer service. Generally the angriest people were complaining about not getting a sweetheart deal. And if anything, Dish's chat team, both here and online was awesome!

I am NOT blaming their frontline workforce, and in many cases they too were victims. On a different DiSH-oriented dealer board the guys on there would regularly ridicule DiSH CSRs and co.-direct installers. But the reason the CSRs did and acted as they did, in customer- (and dealer-) negative ways was because that was their training and the policies they had to either follow & implement or else be out of the job. Many were regardless soon enough outsourced to India, etc. That was both customer-negative AND bad for the country.

And again, the "angry" people demanding free, free, free were doing so because of THEIR training by DiSH, as I previously described. And in a way, for many of them it WAS actually deficient service that ultimately brought about their cancellations- they wouldn't have been making such exorbitant demands in the first place if they'd been shown more respect during their tenancies, INCLUDING not having to see, day in and day out, NEW subs being plied with all of the freebies while they just sat there paying their ever-increasing bills with apparently little reciprocal loyalty to show for it.

But see, once you take that first step in greed, it's a very slippery slope.

 

[mwdxer1]

Sounds like the buggy whip and wheelwright makers are attempting to merge. What’s the point, at this stage of the game?

They can stay afloat longer. Without the merge, neither may not exist in a few years.

 

[mwdxer1]

This is true... the programmers thought they were smart by selling direct to consumer, and look at the issues they are having now.

I don't blame, Dish, Direct, or cable in most cases. The programmers are killing the golden goose. With everything doubling, there has to be some cut somewhere and with free OTA and streaming, the consumers are moving in that direction.

 

[dishdude]

I don't blame, Dish, Direct, or cable in most cases. The programmers are killing the golden goose. With everything doubling, there has to be some cut somewhere and with free OTA and streaming, the consumers are moving in that direction.

Totally agree, it got out of hand with the consolidation of only a few companies owning all the channels and then adding in multiple channels of the same thing. Do we really need 4 ESPNs, 3 FXs, 4 MTVs all showing the same crap programing that they force the providers to buy and stick in their base package or not get anything?

 

[Nebugeater]

Actually that would be one of the reasons, but not everything.

When I cancelled YTTV earlier this year, went on the site, done.

But when I cancelled Sirius on one of my vehicles, it was completely unbearable, believe it took over 45 minutes, kept offering and offering, also had a very thick accent which made it harder, I kept repeating over and over, “I just want to cancel.”

Buying a new vehicle next week, there is no way I will use the service again, based on what I went though.

YOu can short-circuit the cancellation by telling them you no longer have the vehicle or that it was totaled in an accident.

 

[Bruce]

Totally agree, it got out of hand with the consolidation of only a few companies owning all the channels and then adding in multiple channels of the same thing. Do we really need 4 ESPNs, 3 FXs, 4 MTVs all showing the same crap programing that they force the providers to buy and stick in their base package or not get anything?

They need (want) that advertising money the channels bring in, plus those extra per sub fees, that helps to bring the bill up.

The per sub fee might be $0.25 (or more), so not a lot, but then you have all of those extra channels plus all the rerun channels (where you can find the same content for free on Pluto and the other FAST Apps), that adds up.

So, 100s of channels that barely gets ratings, probably adds at least $25-up to your bill every month.

Then you have the fact that monthly bill keeps going up, yet less and less new content.

 

[Bruce]

YOu can short-circuit the cancellation by telling them you no longer have the vehicle or that it was totaled in an accident.

Telstar already addressed this.

So, the only way to make things easier to cancel is…..lie to them?

Still prefer the streaming services way, go to the site, make the changes with a click.

How Sirius, Dish, DirecTV, Comcast, etc handle that type of thing is archaic in today’s world, probably costs more money maintaining those Call Center Employees and, based on reading posts, would quit upsetting those who have to deal with them, to where they swear off never going back to that service.

 

[dishdude]

They need (want) that advertising money the channels bring in, plus those extra per sub fees, that helps to bring the bill up.

The per sub fee might be $0.25 (or more), so not a lot, but then you have all of those extra channels plus all the rerun channels (where you can find the same content for free on Pluto and the other FAST Apps), that adds up.

So, 100s of channels that barely gets ratings, probably adds at least $25-up to your bill every month.

Then you have the fact that monthly bill keeps going up, yet less and less new content.

I know exactly why they're doing it, their greed destroyed themselves.

 

[Bruce]

I know exactly why they're doing it, their greed destroyed themselves.

I wrote a report about this for my employer, but what I received in response was, no changes planned, going to ride the gravy train to the end.

But they are expecting to shut down certain channels when they hit the unprofitable stage, when advertising revenue and per sub fees are not enough to support the channel.

Part of that process was eliminating all new content being produced for those channels.

But Live Pay TV Services are not innocent in all this, two examples, some of those channels you mentioned, plus a few other, Charter/Spectrum got rid of them last September, so no more per sub fees, did the bill go down, nope, had the normal price increase in January.

Or when Dish got rid of the RSNs, many were posting here the bill would go down, or the price increase would not happen because of the loss of those channels, which had a very high per sub fee, none of that happened, Dish had their price increase as normal.

 

[Mochuf]

And those apps have commercials that are unskippable.

All live tv is like that though. You could DVR the news. But by the time you watch it, anything important will show up on your phone beforehand.

 

[Strega]

I remember one time when I woke up at 5AM to the sound of ducks quacking and things rattling. I thought: Was that an earthquake? Turned on the radio – yes it was. That’s the only time I can recall that it mattered to me whether the news was exactly live or delayed 10-15 minutes. (ie: long enough to make the all commercials skippable.)

 

[telstar_1]

But you turned to the radio first- do you have radio dvr?

Whomever has the science channel has already been at defunding it for awhile.

 

[Strega]

I had a radio alarm clock on my nightstand, so there was no need to even get out of bed.

I used to have a shortwave radio that had timers, and I connected that to a cassette recorder with VOX/voice activated recording, so at one time I did have a radio recorder so I could timeshift BBC radio to convenient times here. Actually this was around the time of the earthquake - mid 1980s I think. No DVRs then - I had VCRs - funny thing about VCRs - I always had them because the technology was cool, but I didn't watch them much because the picture quality was such a drop from live TV.