DVR fees?!?
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Because it costs extra money every month and some of us can barely afford TV service in the first place. $10 a month may not seem like a big deal, but if you're in bad enough shape financially, it is. Plus, the thing about getting a DVR receiver is, you get the thing and than you're basically committed to that $10 extra dollars a month unless you pay more money to upgrade/downgrade. You can't even drop it for a month or a few months when money is tight.
And, you know, people say, blah, blah, $10 is just the price of two coffees at Starbucks or this that and the other. But people say that about everything, not just DVR and not just television related stuff. If you get everything people say that about, suddenly it's an extra couple hundred dollars a month easy, which is a huge deal. Little things add up.
I think it's the corporations that have the sense of entitlement. They feel entitled to money from our wallets- and for that amount of money to increase constantly beyond the cost of inflation. Sometimes they even drop channels or programming and raise the rates (Ask the people in NY who can no longer see their local sports on Dish)!
Also, while we're on the subject of promotional rates, I understand why you'd ask "Why would people feel they're entitled to them?". Here's the thing, though, every time Comcast has a rate increase, their public relations rep is quoted in the newspaper downplaying it, usually mentioning that 50-60% of their customers are on promotional rates and won't be effected. When the cost of your package keeps going up and up, to the point where you may not be able to afford it anymore, and you hear that over half the other people on the service are getting a price discount, you naturally are going to call up and want that same discount. I called, didn't get it, and walked, and I felt perfectly justified in doing that.
When I switched to Dish and was upset that they charged me an installation fee and wouldn't hook me up with HD or the free HD for Life they advertised, it wasn't because I in a general sense felt "entitled" to free install or free HD equipment and HD service at no additional charge, it's because they advertised it and other customers were getting it. You see a big ad for something, and you know other people are getting better stuff for less money, and it's natural to be a bit ticked that they "fine printed you" into being a second class customer.
Good for you. Stop using your own happiness as an excuse to call the rest of us "entitled" or "whiners" or whatever this week's buzz word is (I don't really mean to direct that solely at you, I mean it in a general sense- a lot of people say stuff like what you're saying- about a lot of different things). People have every bit as much right to be a little disgruntled as you do to be happy with the state of things. We don't all have to march in lockstep having the same opinions.
Your wall of text has made one thing very clear, some people just should not have pay tv.
True, but their isn't really a lot of good shows on OTA nowadays, are there? For me , the only OTA shows I watch are the CBS sitcoms , that Tim Allen sitcom on ABC, Family Guy on FOX, and that's about it. Although, I understand everybody has different tastes as to what they watch on TV. (After all, somebody must still be watching NBC.
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That's not entitlement, it's business. They feel entitled to our money? They better or they won't be in business, in the case of Dish I want their service so they better want you to pay. And when you say cost to increase beyond the cost of inflation, you just don't understand what doing business entails. If shipping goes up, payroll taxes go up, raw material go up, electric bill, phone bill, fleet maintenance, and a whole host of other costs, prices for the consumer goes up accordingly. I know you don't want to believe it but most often businesses do not go up to cover all their increases of cost because consumer demand plays a role, including competition. So I'm saying your whole premise there is wrong. Where I agree with you if this is what you meant, someone under contract in my opinion should have been let out of it when Dish dropped their RSN(s) like in NYC. To me that's a little different than losing a regular channel and I have posted that before.
Some valid points for me there. I'm guessing you didn't get the free install or free HD for life because you didn't get a high enough package? If so I do think that is unfortunate. While I understand companies want you to spend a certain level to get benefits, sometimes people who just can't afford more could use a little extra as a new customer. Now if you just didn't want to the $99 one time fee, OR use paperless and autopay and that's why you didn't get those things, that would be on you.
Not just Dish, but companies could take a look how they manage current customers vis-a-vis new customers. However I do understand the premise, everyone gets a discount (Assuming they qualify - high enough package or credit etc..) at least once. But the company can not keep giving one in the same way. In the case of Dish, it was free year of Starz most recently, along with some other free programming or reduced cost. Generally some of which is not available to the new customer. Upgrades up until the Hopper seemed to be available to existing customers, not new ones right away.
Balance your overall satisfaction to what is most important to you. If paying less is the main objective and that is your overall satisfaction go to someone else who provides that. If a company won't give you discounts that another one will, go with them. Can't find someone else who will be much cheaper or give you the discounts than that's the going price, and maybe with what you want companies just can not afford to have you as a customer. Not much more complicated than that. Trying to tell a business how to run their business will only end in your dissatisfaction. You should ask for what you want of course. Not getting it doesn't always make the business wrong however, you have choices.
I fully agree you have every right to be unhappy and discuss it just as those who are happy post. I do think you will remain unhappy if you want businesses to owe you anything, and then be unhappy if you don't get it. If they truly are discriminating there are laws for that as well as bait and switch, etc... Short of that, you have the ultimate power, to give or not to give a business your money. (Possible exception- power company unless you are prepared to generate your own power.....
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I agree with the Pretzel.....these are tough times...it has NOTHING to do with entitlements. Dish Network reported $14 BILLION in sales for 2011 and $1.5 BILLION in Profits....not a bad margin....they are not worrying about paying their electric bill....
Forbes : " (Dish Network) is the highest-ranking Colorado business on Forbes’ latest list of the world’s 2,000 biggest publicly traded companies."
Given that 90% of income growth since the end of the Recession has gone to corporate profits and that 75% of the increase in US Corporate profit margins since 2001 have come from depressed wages....Dish will inevitably see a further shrinking of their subscriber base as the middle class loses purchasing power....kind of a Catch 22 situation.
Forbes : " (Dish Network) is the highest-ranking Colorado business on Forbes’ latest list of the world’s 2,000 biggest publicly traded companies."
Given that 90% of income growth since the end of the Recession has gone to corporate profits and that 75% of the increase in US Corporate profit margins since 2001 have come from depressed wages....Dish will inevitably see a further shrinking of their subscriber base as the middle class loses purchasing power....kind of a Catch 22 situation.
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True, but their isn't really a lot of good shows on OTA nowadays, are there? For me , the only OTA shows I watch are the CBS sitcoms , that Tim Allen sitcom on ABC, Family Guy on FOX, and that's about it. Although, I understand everybody has different tastes as to what they watch on TV. (After all, somebody must still be watching NBC.
same here, man. that is why we did the tivo + ota + netflix a while back. we have a free (crappy) cable service here so we had some channels, but overall it just does not compare to dish. the packages are what stinks. for a few channels, you have to have at250. entrapment, lol.....
a SINGLE person could manage just fine with OTA, internet and other entertainment sources. having a family changes things.
damn right! sprint is learning about this since they left a hole in their 2-year agreement. any change to the terms, and a person can get out without paying ETFs. one of these days, though, that will change. it has been very upsetting that Dish has not offered a discount while they deal with their contract disputes. it's not our fault, but we still pay.
downriver said:
DVR fee is $6/month, so I'm not sure what Hanover is getting the $10/month figure. However, let's go with ten for the sake of argument and we'll see that it makes the difference between profitability and operating at a loss.
$1.5 billion, that doesn't sound like a bad margin, but consider it per customer per month: $8.928 profit per account each month. What sort of discount would make everyone happy, $5? Doubtful, but let's use that. Now they're make $4 sub per month and still have all the inherent risks related to being a sat provider. Suppose a future negotiations for a channel raises the rate, they don't pass that on to consumers until the February price increase. (that's just one hypothetical scenario, I'm sure people can think up others better ones.)
Remember, this is a business. No profit means they'd shut down. Sorry, but price increases higher than inflation have to be attributed to the content providers and not distributors like Dish and Direct. Costs go up, and they have to pass they one or they wouldn't stay in business.
Seems kind of arrogant for someone to be telling other people what they should and shouldn't have, doesn't it?
While I don't understand the ins and outs of the television provider business, I do understand that Dish's quarterly earnings reports keep showing huge profits, even during quarters where they lose a lot of subscribers. They're pocketing a lot of the extra money we're paying them. Not singling out Dish here, all these major providers seem to do it. There could be lower monthly rates if they reduced their profit margin a tad (And it might even pick up more people and not impact that profit margin as much as it would seem at the onset).
Nope, failed a credit check. Not even bad credit anymore, unestablished credit. I loath the entire credit system with a passion at this point. It used to that if you had unestablished credit, someone would give you a low-limit credit card and you could reestablish it, and you didn't even need good credit for much (Just car/house loans), now you need it for almost everything and they're like "Send us $300 as collateral and we'll give you a secure card and not even take what you spent out of the $300, we'll keep the $300 as long as you have the card and you still have to pay the card off with other funds". Then if you go through the process, they won't even guarantee it'll make your credit good or get you a real card (Which is a very real concern, because I'm low-income enough that they might just say "We're not giving you sh*t no matter what your history of on-time payments is"), they just say it *might*. Screw that.
That's what I'm doing. But it means I'll likely keep bouncing from provider to provider every couple years. It seems like it'd have been easier for, say, Comcast to just give me a better every day rate versus losing my television business for two years and then me maybe coming back on a promotional rate for a year or two after, and they leaving again, etc.. I mean, I went 6 months without Internet from them, came back 6-months later and got a promotional rate that was like a third of their normal cost to provide Internet for a year, and then I'll probably roll into a bundle with returned tv and keep getting that cheap, and so on and so forth. If they had just given me a bit of money off tv and internet each month when I called and asked, I probably would have stayed in the first place and they'd have made a lot more $$, and wouldn't have to keep sending out install and uninstall guys out. Would have been better for them and less of a hassle for me.
When Comcast's PR people keep saying in the press that more than half their subscribers are on a promotional rate, it's sort of a clue that their regular rate isn't so much their regular rate so much as what people pay who aren't paying attention and don't keep jumping through to different promotions or churn occasionally and come back. I was struggling to pay it and felt like a sucker, so I jumped ship.
Can't find someone else who will be much cheaper or give you the discounts than that's the going price, and maybe with what you want companies just can not afford to have you as a customer. Not much more complicated than that. Trying to tell a business how to run their business will only end in your dissatisfaction. You should ask for what you want of course. Not getting it doesn't always make the business wrong however, you have choices.
I fully agree you have every right to be unhappy and discuss it just as those who are happy post. I do think you will remain unhappy if you want businesses to owe you anything, and then be unhappy if you don't get it. If they truly are discriminating there are laws for that as well as bait and switch, etc... Short of that, you have the ultimate power, to give or not to give a business your money. (Possible exception- power company unless you are prepared to generate your own power.....
I basically agree with that. The one sort of caveat I might toss in there is that I do think consumer protection laws in the US are very weak relative to say, Europe, and many regular business practices here would be considered discriminatory or bait and switch overseas. I don't dispute that they can legally do this stuff here, but that doesn't mean it's ethical. Of course, expecting ethical behavior from a large corporation is like expecting mathematical computations from a walrus.
It probably just isn't that realistic.
I suggest that some people do a little more research on how the TV industry works before they criticize why a company does what it does. TV providers have to deal with a lot more than just offering you channels and taking your money. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the majority of the complainers here are not involved in any type of business or management.
This is a very good point. People don't want to pay a little less for Sat TV, but a lot less. These same people lost their lunch over Netflix unlimited streaming/DVD rental going up to $16 a month. In order to get prices down to the basement where some want them, there would be no making money at all.
Personally, Dish offers the most packaging options. They go from bare bones through to just about everything. Directv has fewer options in between.
no, their income should be doing that, but that is just the problem with a lot people these days. they see other people with something, and they have to have it too- whether or not they can afford it. (then cry for a bail out....)
geez, would hate to hear what you think about fuel prices.......
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I have no problem with Dish Profits...the point is that the more the consumer is squeezed...like Pretzel....the more subscribers they will lose.
downriver said:
I don't disagree with that, but at the same time, they're in a catch 22. If they decide to use hardball negotiations and temporarily/permanently drop channels to reduce rate increases, people howl and switch to providers that offer the missing channels.ay TV bills are going to continue to skyrocket unless retransmission rates are somehow brought under control.
What more do I really need to know than to see those billion dollar a year profit margins?
The problem with a lot of people these days is they have more than other people and like to trash those people as being irresponsible or not working hard enough in order to pad their already substantial egos and make themselves feel better about having more, instead of just being humble and grateful that they are better off and realizing that if one or two things had gone differently in their lives, often things beyond their control, they'd be in a very different position. They not only can't understand what it's like to be a member of the long-term poor, they kind of like that some people are in that group because they can look down on them and call them names and feel better about themselves.
I would think higher fuel prices are predominantly being driven by oil speculators who will never take delivery of product, and that sort of oil speculation should be banned. Supply is up and demand is down, prices should have gone, but it's the speculators who are driving the prices up. Ban oil speculation by companies that aren't truly in the oil business, and we'll have cheaper gas. Gambling in financial markets is what prompted our economic troubles that began a few years ago, and now similar gambling is happening specifically with oil. Until we ban some of this stuff and regulate the rest of it better, we're going to keep running into these issues, but the politicians don't want to talk about it because they're bought and paid for by big monied interests. But I'll stop there, because it's drifting off-topic.
You know, if Dish substantially cut the prices of all their packages and I saw that they were running as a break-even non-profit or as a business with very thin profit margins, and they starting getting in channel disputes with the argument that they're doing it to keep the bills low, I might buy it, because in that scenario they really couldn't absorb the cost increases involved without increasing people's bills. When they're making a billion dollars a year, and actually have a large stockpile of money they're sitting and thinking of using to build a cell phone network, I just don't buy that argument coming from them. They get into these disputes to put more money in their own pockets at the expense of the customer, who they know is often locked in and can't leave due to contractual obligations.
Ugh. You don't think that profit is meant to be invested in making new product and expanding the company? How do you afford to buy other assets if you don't have a profit? Dish is trying to expand it's reach and the only way to do that is to make a profit and invest that profit. You think all the profit is just being pocketed? Think a little more outside the box. I know all you see are dollar signs and nothing for you but there is more to it than you think.
Let's say Dish uses their profits to start a cell phone company. How does that benefit me? Think their cell phones are going to be dirt-cheap no-contract no-credit check smartphones with low, low monthly fees? I highly doubt it. They'll likely be just as bad or worse than the rest of them. I'd rather they not expand into other things and just focus on providing better television at a lower cost at the expense of their huge profit margins.
Why are all of their profits suppose to benefit you? Some should be reinvested to make a better product for current customers of course, that would benefit you. The rest is to make their company better. They are in business for themselves not for you. Obviously they need to make things worth while for customers like yourself or they wouldn't be in business to begin with but I think you fail to understand what their objective is.
It seems there are 2 main viewpoints on this thread at the moment, those who are in business or at least understand it and those who are not and think businesses are suppose to bend over backwards for them no matter what the costs. I know the saying is "the customer is always right" but I now days I think it's getting further from the truth. Customers are getting more demanding and they feel more entitled than ever before. I know that times are tougher and that has a lot to do with it, but this trend started before the economy went to crap. Its a generational thing.
It seems there are 2 main viewpoints on this thread at the moment, those who are in business or at least understand it and those who are not and think businesses are suppose to bend over backwards for them no matter what the costs. I know the saying is "the customer is always right" but I now days I think it's getting further from the truth. Customers are getting more demanding and they feel more entitled than ever before. I know that times are tougher and that has a lot to do with it, but this trend started before the economy went to crap. Its a generational thing.
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