Don Fehr rumored to be stepping down as MLB union chief!

[salsadancer7]

You're confusing two different issues. The owners worst deed is strong arming local communities to get new ballparks built. While it is arrogant that people like George Steinbrenner demand that taxpayers build him a new stadium things like this don't directly undermine the game. Having a union boss that fights against drug testing so that people like Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens can enrich themselves and completely distort the game does hurt baseball.

On the contrary.....trying to bring you up to speed. I stated that this union has definately had issues....but the owners are their OWN WORST ENEMY by 1st holding cities/government hostage, then colluding, then weakening the position of the commissioners office TO THEIR BENEFIT and all in the mean time...begging for mercy and crying poverty.

..Fehr did what EVERY LAWYERS does, look out for the best interests of his client/s. YOU and ME may not like it...but that is THEIR JOB. I will never side with the owners because they have NEVER shown in anyway, shape or form that they can be trusted.

You bring up this issue of steriods....where were the owners trying to stop this...??!! They were smack dab in the middle of it because as the freaks, McGuirre and Sosa and Palmiero were hitting homers galore....the money was coming in like a down pour....

...so please spare the whole 'union allowed steriods' song and dance.....the owners knew, and turned their face other way because their pockets were getting bigger for it.

 

[SandraC]

Before Congress got involved, anytime the owners would bring up testing during collective bargaining, Fehr and his buddies would say 'Thanks, we're done here', pack up their briefcases and end the meeting on the spot.


Sandra

 

[anders5189]

Before Congress got involved, anytime the owners would bring up testing during collective bargaining, Fehr and his buddies would say 'Thanks, we're done here', pack up their briefcases and end the meeting on the spot.


Sandra

Exactly. That or they'd threaten to strike again. It's one thing for a union boss to fight for higher salaries, that's what they're paid to do, but it's another thing when a union boss defends cheating. Fehr would have defended the 1919 Black Sox throwing the WS.

 

[SandraC]

Exactly. That or they'd threaten to strike again. It's one thing for a union boss to fight for higher salaries, that's what they're paid to do, but it's another thing when a union boss defends cheating. Fehr would have defended the 1919 Black Sox throwing the WS.

Well I agree with salsadancer in that defending his constituents is his job. That said, what I don't agree with is the premise that Fehr and the union is beyond reproach because owners hold up cities for tax dollars. Apples...oranges...straw men...

The fact remains the owners tried to bring in steroid testing and the union wouldn't even talk about it...until congress forced them to.


Sandra

 

[salsadancer7]

Before Congress got involved, anytime the owners would bring up testing during collective bargaining, Fehr and his buddies would say 'Thanks, we're done here', pack up their briefcases and end the meeting on the spot.


Sandra

...When the owners put a strong commissioner in place...and not one of their own....then come talk to me..

..I can't think of a single owner that has paid for a stadium by himself....can you? Oh wait, Joe Robbie is the ONLY professional sports franchise owner that I know of that built a stadium with NON-TAX payer money.

 

[salsadancer7]

Well I agree with salsadancer in that defending his constituents is his job. That said, what I don't agree with is the premise that Fehr and the union is beyond reproach because owners hold up cities for tax dollars. Apples...oranges...straw men...

The fact remains the owners tried to bring in steroid testing and the union wouldn't even talk about it...until congress forced them to.


Sandra

AGAIN, I have said the union has their issues....ESPECIALLY the whole steroids issue. The ONLY reason the owners tried to do anything is because it was becoming more and more clear that they were no gonna say a word while the money was flowing into their pockets.

 

[salsadancer7]

Exactly. That or they'd threaten to strike again. It's one thing for a union boss to fight for higher salaries, that's what they're paid to do, but it's another thing when a union boss defends cheating. Fehr would have defended the 1919 Black Sox throwing the WS.

They are lawyers.....jesus, mary and joseph!! What part do you not get?! That is there job.

....see Donte Stallworth....

 

[anders5189]

They are lawyers.....jesus, mary and joseph!! What part do you not get?! That is there job.

....see Donte Stallworth....

I could make a crack at lawyers, but I won't. My point is that these things are part of a negotiation. Fehr's postion was always my way or the highway and we strike. The #1 issue for the players has always been money, ie. salaries, free agency. It wouldn't have cost them much to allow for drug testing in return for avoiding a salary cap. Plus it wouldn't hurt a union boss to factor in the public perception of balloon heads like Bonds and how fans thought of them. Would he concede a minor issue in order to protect the reputation of players as a whole? NO! It was like Victor Conte, the owner of BALCO, was speaking for the players.

 

[SandraC]

...When the owners put a strong commissioner in place...and not one of their own....then come talk to me..

..I can't think of a single owner that has paid for a stadium by himself....can you? Oh wait, Joe Robbie is the ONLY professional sports franchise owner that I know of that built a stadium with NON-TAX payer money.

For me, the fact that owners hold cities up for ransom makes them greedy business people. But it doesn't mean they're wrong about everything.


Sandra

 

[SandraC]

I could make a crack at lawyers, but I won't. My point is that these things are part of a negotiation. Fehr's postion was always my way or the highway and we strike. The #1 issue for the players has always been money, ie. salaries, free agency. It wouldn't have cost them much to allow for drug testing in return for avoiding a salary cap. Plus it wouldn't hurt a union boss to factor in the public perception of balloon heads like Bonds and how fans thought of them. Would he concede a minor issue in order to protect the reputation of players as a whole? NO! It was like Victor Conte, the owner of BALCO, was speaking for the players.

The funny thing is, at least a few of the players Fehr represents were never on steroids. You would hope so anyway.

Where was Fehr in demanding their right to an equal playing field? Because of Fehr and the union refusing to negotiate, there are probably players who had to use steroids in order to keep up with the guy in the next locker.


Sandra

 

[salsadancer7]

I could make a crack at lawyers, but I won't. My point is that these things are part of a negotiation. Fehr's postion was always my way or the highway and we strike. The #1 issue for the players has always been money, ie. salaries, free agency. It wouldn't have cost them much to allow for drug testing in return for avoiding a salary cap. Plus it wouldn't hurt a union boss to factor in the public perception of balloon heads like Bonds and how fans thought of them. Would he concede a minor issue in order to protect the reputation of players as a whole? NO! It was like Victor Conte, the owner of BALCO, was speaking for the players.

But HOW can you trust the owners with the track record they had AND the fact that they ran out of town, the last strong commissioner this league had....?

Tell me, YOU being the head of the union....would YOU?!! Seriously....??!!!

 

[anders5189]

But HOW can you trust the owners with the track record they had AND the fact that they ran out of town, the last strong commissioner this league had....?

Tell me, YOU being the head of the union....would YOU?!! Seriously....??!!!

It's not about trust. Unions themselves represent distrust of management. That doesn't mean you can't work out a fair deal. Unions fighting for higher salaries is what they do. Unions protecting cheaters is not. What Don Fehr did would be the same as the head of the Teamsters defending people who stole from a company.

 

[salsadancer7]

It's not about trust. Unions themselves represent distrust of management. That doesn't mean you can't work out a fair deal. Unions fighting for higher salaries is what they do. Unions protecting cheaters is not. What Don Fehr did would be the same as the head of the Teamsters defending people who stole from a company.

didn't the owners steal by colluding? Isn't THAT the same thing...?

 

[anders5189]

didn't the owners steal by colluding? Isn't THAT the same thing...?

Collusion is a pretty vague charge. Did the owners collude to not sign Barry Bonds as he claims or did they just not want to deal with all his BS? The reason the union doesn't trust the owners is because of the way players were treated way back when before free agency. Players have memories of cheapskate owners like Charlie Finley who nickle and dimed the A's teams he had in the 70's.

 

[Will94]

Did the owners collude to not sign Barry Bonds as he claims or did they just not want to deal with all his BS?

The owners were found guilty of collusion about 20 years ago. Maybe 1988?!? Anyone?!?

 

[salsadancer7]

The owners were found guilty of collusion about 20 years ago. Maybe 1988?!? Anyone?!?

AND dished out a stiff penalty/fine of 280 MILLION dollars....

Collusion I
The free agent market following the 1985 season was different from any since the Seitz decision a decade earlier. Only four of the 35 free agents changed teams and those four were not wanted by their old team. Star players, such as Kirk Gibson, Tommy John and Phil Niekro, did not receive offers from other teams. The cover of the December 9, 1985 edition of Sporting News asked, "Why Won't Anyone Sign Kirk Gibson?" George Steinbrenner offered Carlton Fisk a contract, then withdrew the offer after getting a call from Chicago White Sox chairman Jerry Reinsdorf. Teams also reduced team rosters from 25 to 24 players.

In early 1986, the MLBPA filed their first grievance (Collusion I).


Collusion II
The free agent market following the 1986 season was not much better for the players. Only four free agents switched teams. Andre Dawson took a pay cut and a one year contract to sign with the Chicago Cubs. For the first time since the start of free agency, the average major league salary declined. Free agent salaries went down 16% even though baseball revenues went up 15%. Three fourths of the free agents signed one year contracts. Star players that ended up back with their old team included Jack Morris, Tim Raines, Ron Guidry, Rich Gedman, Bob Boone, and Doyle Alexander. On February 18, 1987, the MLBPA filed their second grievance (Collusion II).

In the Collusion I case, arbitrator Thomas Roberts ruled that the owners had violated the basic agreement (September 1987).


Collusion III
After the ruling, the owners changed their tactic, but not their intent. They created an "information bank" to share information about what offers were being made to players. Players affected included Paul Molitor, Jack Clark, and Dennis Martinez. In January 1988 the MLBPA filed their third grievance (Collusion III).

On January 18, 1988, damages were announced in the Collusion I case. Roberts determined damages of $10.5 million should be paid by the owners to the players. Seven of the fourteen 1985 free agents were awarded a second chance as "new look" free agents. They could offer their services to any team without losing their existing contracts. On January 29, 1988, Kirk Gibson signed a $4.5 million, three year contract with the Los Angeles Dodgers.

In October 1989, arbitrator George Nicolau ruled that the owners had violated the basic agreement in Collusion II. Nicolau determined damages of $38 million. "New look" free agents included Ron Guidry, Bob Boone, Doyle Alexander, Willie Randolph, Brian Downing and Rich Gedman.

Collusion III damages were $64.5 million. Owners would also have to compensate for losses related to multi-year contracts and lost bonuses.

A final settlement of the three collusion cases was reached in November 1990. The owners agreed to pay the players $280 million, with the MLBPA deciding how to distribute the money to the damaged players.

Fay Vincent to the owners:

The single biggest reality you guys have to face up to is collusion. You stole $280 million from the players, and the players are unified to a man around that issue, because you got caught and many of you are still involved.

The MLBPA filed collusion charges, arguing that Commissioner Peter Ueberroth [8] and team owners had violated the collective bargaining agreement in the 1985-1987 seasons. The MLBPA won each case, resulting in "second look" free agents, and over $280 million in owner fines.[9]

Collusion and expansion
According to former baseball commissioner Fay Vincent baseball expansion in the early 1990s was used to raise money for the owners to pay off their collusion debt. In actuality, the owners still saved money from their collusion. The money was simply money that would have been paid in salary during the three seasons, but was not, due to collusion.[citation needed] Even more, this number was arrived at in a settlement, meaning that it was likely a judicial or arbitrator's decision would have placed the damages above $280 million dollars. Essentially, despite the fine the owners still saved money and were never penalized for their collusion.


[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball_collusion"]Baseball collusion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

YEAH, "pretty VAGUE charge" huh?!

 

[salsadancer7]

Collusion is a pretty vague charge. Did the owners collude to not sign Barry Bonds as he claims or did they just not want to deal with all his BS? The reason the union doesn't trust the owners is because of the way players were treated way back when before free agency. Players have memories of cheapskate owners like Charlie Finley who nickle and dimed the A's teams he had in the 70's.

You really must have not read ANYTHING I have posted. Fay Vincent HIMSELF said that was THE MAIN REASON the players did not trust the owners. Your reason is peanuts compared to that. Then the owners CEMENTED it by weakening the commissioners office with ONE OF THEIR OWN.

It is simply amazing how people think the players are the bad guys when what THEY do is no different than what YOU and I do, but at a grander scale....

....try to be the best that you can be at your position and get paid accordingly. IF you are the best pizza maker in the city of Provo, Utah...you should be paid for it.
...IF you are the best catcher in the league, then you should be paid accordingly...

And yet, the owner that wants you to pay $9 for a 16 ounce bottle of beer and $8 for a cheese burger...a burger that's no better and McDonalds....tells a city he "supposedly" loves, that the city and state HAS to build him a stadium because if not, he will move to another town...and teachers, cops and firemen are losing their jobs....and this guy is supposedly actually looking out for both the game and the fans......:rant::haha:haha

...again, you guys keep believing in that crap....

 

[SamCdbs]

The owners were found guilty of collusion about 20 years ago. Maybe 1988?!? Anyone?!?

This is the forgotten piece that set the stage for the lost strike and the broken economic system. The teams were found "guilty" of this collusion, with no evidence whatsoever. Just the supposition that they "had" to be colluding because they were not willing to pay the players fantastic pay that could not be recouped at the current price levels.

Baseball had to pay off the "damages" with the over-expansion that followed, and the lost strike and the $400 tickets and taxpayer extorted stadiums followed.

People that dismiss the broken economic system as somthing the owners can do something about by just bidding responsbably do not know what they are talking about.

As to the steroid cheats, this is the phenomena of unions that has always amazed me. Unions, be it baseball players or the local bus drivers, always protect the lazy, the cheats, the druggies, the thieves, etc. Why would not the union's position be that it wants 10000 forms of drug testings? The say way why should not the coal miners' union position be that it wants guys who find a quiet hole and go to sleep be to get rid of them. But the opposite is always true.

 

[salsadancer7]

This is the forgotten piece that set the stage for the lost strike and the broken economic system. The teams were found "guilty" of this collusion, with no evidence whatsoever. Just the supposition that they "had" to be colluding because they were not willing to pay the players fantastic pay that could not be recouped at the current price levels.

Baseball had to pay off the "damages" with the over-expansion that followed, and the lost strike and the $400 tickets and taxpayer extorted stadiums followed.

People that dismiss the broken economic system as somthing the owners can do something about by just bidding responsbably do not know what they are talking about..

Without going into a politically filled babble.....a down the middle ,arbitrator not some a bunch of sports writers, fans, players or owners....but an impartical arbitrator found enough evidence to see that the collective bargaining agreement was broken.

I am sure that that impartial arbitrator would know alot more about whether the collective bargaining agreement was broken ALOT BETTER than YOU or I.

 

[SandraC]

This is the forgotten piece that set the stage for the lost strike and the broken economic system. The teams were found "guilty" of this collusion, with no evidence whatsoever. Just the supposition that they "had" to be colluding because they were not willing to pay the players fantastic pay that could not be recouped at the current price levels.

When the owners spend too much, they're villified for spending too much. When they don't spend too much, they're guilty of collusion and have to pay anyway...


Sandra