Dish TV and Cable Internet install

[Trmbne2000]

Hi, we've have Comcast for the past 10 years, and are finally fed up with their 'customer service' and prices ($150 a month for TV and internet). So, we have decided to look into getting Dish. However, we're going to keep the cable internet because of the speed.

We currently have 1 HDTV and 1 SDTV, and are adding 2 more SDTVs. We want to be able to watch different programs on all of them (ViP633/322). The HD and cable modem are connected to a single cable jack via a splitter. All of the cable runs in the house terminate at a box on the ouside wall.

What has to be done to the wiring to make the internet still work once we get Dish?

thanks,
Andrew

 

[webbydude]

Ugh...it can be tricky. But since your HD and your cable modem share the same coax, I'm willing to bet your installer should be able to diplex (combine and then separate) the two signals. All of this is assuming you only have two spots (at the HD tv/cable modem and outside) that are split by the cable company.

 

[gadgtfreek]

If I understand you correctly and all your feeds (from evey jack) terminate outside the house then it should not be too bad. My inlaws house had all the feeds in the attic.

We ran his D* wires into the attic and tied into the feeds so the boxes could connect neatly at the coaxial outlets throughout the house. The Comcast incoming was left connected to the one pc of coax that fed the room with the modem.

 

[harshness]

The cabling system can be used to deliver satellite and carry the TV2 signals, but not combined with the Comcast signals.

The cable modem uses frequencies in two bands and while the first is in the VHF range, I'm not sure where the other one is. I'm doubtful that you'll be able to connect the Comcast feed into the the Dish cable due to interference from the cable modem and the HD channels.

In my own installation, I subscribe to Comcast's HSI and lifeline TV and the Comcast signals run on dedicated cables. I use an OTA antenna for my locals.

Remember that each of the receivers must have a path to the TV2s that it will be supporting. If you play your cards right and get the right kind of distribution amplifiers, you can tune into three (maybe four) Dish channels on every TV in the house.

 

[Roadwarrior]

I always just drop a seperate line for Dish. It is the simplest solution. Dropping it down the wall may cost you a few bucks extra, but nothing major.

 

[dishcomm]

Ugh...it can be tricky. But since your HD and your cable modem share the same coax, I'm willing to bet your installer should be able to diplex (combine and then separate) the two signals. All of this is assuming you only have two spots (at the HD tv/cable modem and outside) that are split by the cable company.

Cable modem and Satelite CANNOT BE ON THE SAME CABLE..Period..Another run of coax must be installed.

 

[sbsi]

It will work the same. I had cable + cable internet, then I switch to dish network and the cable internet work the same. The cable company want me to go back with them, no way. Rude cable customer service, good internet technology.

 

[RandallA]

Cable modem and Satelite CANNOT BE ON THE SAME CABLE..Period..Another run of coax must be installed.

Absolutely not true. Yes, you need to know what you're doing but it's possible to do it. I've been doing this for over 3 yrs. with no problems using diplexers. I've had all kind of Dish Network receivers on the same line with the Cable Internet and no issues at all.

 

[Scott6760]

I have shared both a sat feed and a TV2 feed on the same line as cable. I would rather use a seperate line for reliability, but when you're working in a million dollar house and the customer has only two feeds from the outside to the smart box, refuses to let you run another line, and you need one for each receiver, you don't have a whole lot of choice.

 

[Roadwarrior]

I guess that's the customer choice. I have cable internet and Dish, and I don't even like a splitter in the line. Maybe you could talk the customer into going DSL. I never diplex the modem line into anything. I really don't like using diplexers period. It's just another thing that can go bad in the system.

 

[dishcomm]

Absolutely not true. Yes, you need to know what you're doing but it's possible to do it. I've been doing this for over 3 yrs. with no problems using diplexers. I've had all kind of Dish Network receivers on the same line with the Cable Internet and no issues at all.

I disagree.....No one I have EVER worked with in 9 years inb this business has ever tried this without causing the cable internet to not work properly..I think you'll find the general consensus is that we don't do it..But you are welcome to keep on doing it.......Especially the part "you need to know what your doing"...What might that be?....Are you using some sort of special piece of EQ?...BTW, how does this work on a dual tuner reciever where you are using a diplexer for your tv back feed?...

 

[RandallA]

"BTW, how does this work on a dual tuner reciever where you are using a diplexer for your tv back feed?..."

That of course might not work and I'm not doing it. I don't like to combine the RF output (TV2) of a satellite receiver with CATV or OTA. Some people do but I don't. I understand that Dish Network installers will not do it for obvious reason (avoid trouble calls) but to say that it's not possible it's incorrect. A lot of people on the forums have been doing it for a while now.

When I say you need to know what you're doing, it's because you need to monitor the signal levels on the CATV side not the Satellite. For the cable modem to work the SNR needs to be over 30. And there are other factors that may affect the signal level on the cable modem. How the heck do you monitor those readings? You go into the cable modems diagnostics screen and read the levels. Usually at http://192.168.100.1 If they're borderline then yes the cable modem will not sync. Satellite signal will not be affected at all.


Here is some reading for you:

What kind of signal levels do I want on my cable modem? (#3412)

Downstream Power:
You generally want between -12db and +12db. Most modems are rated from -15 to +15. Anything less or more than that and you may have quality issues.

I personally prefer to not have less than -7db. If you want to raise your signal level a bit, check my troubleshooting and splitter section.

Downstream SNR:

This number is best over 30, but you may not have any problems with down to 25. Anything less and you will probably have slow transfers, dropped connections, etc.

See my "Downstream SNR" definition for more information on this.

Upstream Power:
The lower this number is, the better. If it is above 55, you may want to see if you can reconfigure your splitters. Anything above 57 is not good and should be fixed ASAP. (This is getting pretty close to not being able to connect.)

Upstream SNR:
Anything above 29 is considered good. The higher this number is, the better. If this number is below 25 and 29, you have a minute amount of noise leaking in somewhere. If it's anything less than 25, you want to get it fixed as you may have a lot of packet loss or slow transfer rates.

See my "Upstream SNR" definition for more info.

 

[dishcomm]

"BTW, how does this work on a dual tuner reciever where you are using a diplexer for your tv back feed?..."

That of course might not work and I'm not doing it. I don't like to combine the RF output (TV2) of a satellite receiver with CATV or OTA. Some people do but I don't. I understand that Dish Network installers will not do it for obvious reason (avoid trouble calls) but to say that it's not possible it's incorrect. A lot of people on the forums have been doing it for a while now.

When I say you need to know what you're doing, it's because you need to monitor the signal levels on the CATV side not the Satellite. For the cable modem to work the SNR needs to be over 30. And there are other factors that may affect the signal level on the cable modem. How the heck do you monitor those readings? You go into the cable modems diagnostics screen and read the levels. Usually at http://192.168.100.1 If they're borderline then yes the cable modem will not sync. Satellite signal will not be affected at all.


Here is some reading for you:

What kind of signal levels do I want on my cable modem? (#3412)

Downstream Power:
You generally want between -12db and +12db. Most modems are rated from -15 to +15. Anything less or more than that and you may have quality issues.

I personally prefer to not have less than -7db. If you want to raise your signal level a bit, check my troubleshooting and splitter section.

Downstream SNR:

This number is best over 30, but you may not have any problems with down to 25. Anything less and you will probably have slow transfers, dropped connections, etc.

See my "Downstream SNR" definition for more information on this.

Upstream Power:
The lower this number is, the better. If it is above 55, you may want to see if you can reconfigure your splitters. Anything above 57 is not good and should be fixed ASAP. (This is getting pretty close to not being able to connect.)

Upstream SNR:
Anything above 29 is considered good. The higher this number is, the better. If this number is below 25 and 29, you have a minute amount of noise leaking in somewhere. If it's anything less than 25, you want to get it fixed as you may have a lot of packet loss or slow transfer rates.

See my "Upstream SNR" definition for more info.

Ok..the fact that you can't or won't do it on a dual tuner /diplexed line is essentially probelmatic..For if you are going to to run one new line to feed tuner two, you may as well run two to avoid interfering with the broadband line. Very few of us have the type of testing EQ you describe and even less of us have the time to screw with it...Do the right thing and run the line..What's the big deal.

 

[Roadwarrior]

"BTW, how does this work on a dual tuner reciever where you are using a diplexer for your tv back feed?..."

That of course might not work and I'm not doing it. I don't like to combine the RF output (TV2) of a satellite receiver with CATV or OTA. Some people do but I don't. I understand that Dish Network installers will not do it for obvious reason (avoid trouble calls) but to say that it's not possible it's incorrect. A lot of people on the forums have been doing it for a while now.

When I say you need to know what you're doing, it's because you need to monitor the signal levels on the CATV side not the Satellite. For the cable modem to work the SNR needs to be over 30. And there are other factors that may affect the signal level on the cable modem. How the heck do you monitor those readings? You go into the cable modems diagnostics screen and read the levels. Usually at http://192.168.100.1 If they're borderline then yes the cable modem will not sync. Satellite signal will not be affected at all.


Here is some reading for you:

What kind of signal levels do I want on my cable modem? (#3412)

Downstream Power:
You generally want between -12db and +12db. Most modems are rated from -15 to +15. Anything less or more than that and you may have quality issues.

I personally prefer to not have less than -7db. If you want to raise your signal level a bit, check my troubleshooting and splitter section.

Downstream SNR:

This number is best over 30, but you may not have any problems with down to 25. Anything less and you will probably have slow transfers, dropped connections, etc.

See my "Downstream SNR" definition for more information on this.

Upstream Power:
The lower this number is, the better. If it is above 55, you may want to see if you can reconfigure your splitters. Anything above 57 is not good and should be fixed ASAP. (This is getting pretty close to not being able to connect.)

Upstream SNR:
Anything above 29 is considered good. The higher this number is, the better. If this number is below 25 and 29, you have a minute amount of noise leaking in somewhere. If it's anything less than 25, you want to get it fixed as you may have a lot of packet loss or slow transfer rates.

See my "Upstream SNR" definition for more info.

That info was actually pretty useful. Thanks.

 

[RandallA]

Ok..the fact that you can't or won't do it on a dual tuner /diplexed line is essentially probelmatic..For if you are going to to run one new line to feed tuner two, you may as well run two to avoid interfering with the broadband line. Very few of us have the type of testing EQ you describe and even less of us have the time to screw with it...Do the right thing and run the line..What's the big deal.

I don't disagree with you on running a second run, that's the way it should be done. I disagree with you when you said that it is not possible and that is not correct, it's possible with the right knowledge. That's all.

When someone asks this question, I always say try it. If it doesn't work then it doesn't work and they don't need to even check signals or anything else. They just know they need to run the second cable. It only cost you a pair of diplexers to try it.

 

[Trmbne2000]

We have a fairly unique area in that our two options are Comcast cable internet or satellite. Even though Verizon owns the phone lines, we can't get DSL through them or any other provider, nor can we get FiOS.

Also, I believe that we've decided to just pay to have a second hole punched in the wall of the basement and run the satellite feeds from the dish to the 622 and leave the cable modem plugged in like it is. The upstairs hole would be punched into the attic, where I am terminating some new cable runs to rooms that previously didn't have TV.

 

[dishcomm]

I don't disagree with you on running a second run, that's the way it should be done. I disagree with you when you said that it is not possible and that is not correct, it's possible with the right knowledge. That's all.

When someone asks this question, I always say try it. If it doesn't work then it doesn't work and they don't need to even check signals or anything else. They just know they need to run the second cable. It only cost you a pair of diplexers to try it.

That's fine if you're getting paid on a retail job. You can bill the cust for the extra time/materials or aggrevation.
But in my case I am on a flat fee job. I don't have time for "experiments"..I go with what works..Time is money and business is business...If there's a trick or shortcut I haven't seen or heard of I'll try it. But only if I see it in action first.
"that's the way it should be done."....That just about sums it up right there..

 

[Claude Greiner]

The solution is simple, you keep cable internet and the satellite installer runs new lines to the televisions getting DISH.

 

[dishcomm]

The solution is simple, you keep cable internet and the satellite installer runs new lines to the televisions getting DISH.

Thank you...That was the point I was trying to advance..

 

[BSparks294]

Have you looked into DSL--qwest now has 7.2 MBS speed on their platinum service. I am switching over from comcast because of the cost also. I can get the $36.99 price for life. Will then have Dish and qwest high speed internet.

Brad