Dish to unveil 4k?

[Stargazer]

By the time more content becomes available advanced compression schemes beyond h.265 will probably be available to make up for the extra bandwidth that HDR uses. Most would probably appreciate an improved HD picture at 1080 instead of 720 at this point.

 

[dare2be]

It was mentioned on the forums that with the new h.265 compression techniques that it would only take twice the compression of the current HD streams with h.264 Does HDR and WCG make it three times the compression instead of two?

??? I'm not understanding your question.

H265 allows for about 1/2 the bandwidth used for a similar quality H264 encoding (I would bet real-world usage would be less dramatic)

So a 1080/h264 will take twice the bandwidth as a 1080/h265

4K data streams by definition use 4 times the bandwidth, so:

4K/h265 would use 4 times the bandwidth as 1080/h265
4K/h265 would use about twice the bandwidth as 1080/h264

As you said in your latest post, I would rather see a full implementation of 1080/h265 delivery (improve the quality/reduce the bandwidth of existing content) before any large 4K rollouts occur.

 

[harshness]

It was mentioned on the forums that with the new h.265 compression techniques that it would only take twice the compression of the current HD streams with h.264 Does HDR and WCG make it three times the compression instead of two?

I speculate that the additional information could add another 50% to the compressed payload. Did you expect that they could include all of the extra color and brightness detail for little to no additional cost?

 

[harshness]

H265 allows for about 1/2 the bandwidth used for a similar quality H264 encoding (I would bet real-world usage would be less dramatic)

Not to mention real-time usage.

 

[Troch77]

I do. I think it looks like trash. I don't believe a higher res panel can make a lower res content better, no matter what the image processor does.

I do believe the image processor can do all sorts of tricks to display the 1080i or 720p content better, but that's not the panel res.

Agree, I've seen enough of them that I don't need to buy one to be fooled.

I have family that sells these things daily. I've been in his store multiple times a month.
And when he's is telling me don't waste my money I'm going to listen to him.
Especially when I can see it first hand for myself.
And yes Real 4K is different from 1080p, Not by a significant margin, but noticeable.

But not upconverted 1080p to 4k.
That's just a sales pitch .


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[JM42]

And yes Real 4K is different from 1080p, Not by a significant margin, but noticeable.

But not upconverted 1080p to 4k.
That's just a sales pitch .

Pretty much my take after looking at 4K. I don't need a new TV but like the latest and greatest, but just couldn't justify it. If I were buying a new set, I'd probably go 4K if the price spread between two comparable quality sets were reasonable.

I have doubts about 4K becoming a general broadcast or cable/sat standard anytime in the next 10 years.

There will be plenty of 4K content and some niche channels but I doubt we will see TVLand UHD.

The quality difference between average SD and average HD was pretty dramatic and the government was speeding things along. I don't see either being the case for HD to UHD.

 

[harshness]

The quality difference between average SD and average HD was pretty dramatic and the government was speeding things along.

The government had little to do with the "HD transition" in an of itself. The FCC is all about freeing up bandwidth to sell at auction and that was their primary motivation for the DTV conversion.

The ATSC, a non-profit consortium of TV industry players, established broadcast standards that were adopted by the FCC.

 

[Stargazer]

4K broadcast tv in local markets won't take off near as quickly as cable and on demand channels because they have already had the cost to upgrade their equipment to HD.

 

[tigerfan33]

Any "High Speed HDMI" cable should be sufficient. That they've added a specific UHD certification is a crime (of Monster Cable proportions) when the High Speed HDMI cables must meet and test to the same specifications.

Not really. 18gbps vs 10.2gbps. Both are high speed but not the same.
Longer cable runs(15ft) will be a tad more touchy also.

 

[sam_gordon]

4K broadcast tv in local markets won't take off near as quickly as cable and on demand channels because they have already had the cost to upgrade their equipment to HD.

I don't understand. Haven't locals (the majority of them at least) AND cable/satcos ALL upgraded their equipment to HD?

 

[JM42]

The government had little to do with the "HD transition" in an of itself. The FCC is all about freeing up bandwidth to sell at auction and that was their primary motivation for the DTV conversion.

Granted, but it was marketed as "Don't buy SD, SD TVs won't work in x years due to the FCC mandate." Hell, they were saying this to push TVs that didn't even include an HD tuner (they were "upgradable").

Without the cover and force of a government mandate, broadcasters will be following the trend, not leading it. I doubt the most broadcasters will change until a majority of TVs in use are 4K reception capable, and any era of simulcast will be brief if it exists at all.

That doesn't mean content creators won't produce in 4K. They see what has happened to the value of their SD catalogs and realize it's best to future proof the content.

 

[navychop]

The government had little to do with the "HD transition" in an of itself. The FCC is all about freeing up bandwidth to sell at auction and that was their primary motivation for the DTV conversion.

The ATSC, a non-profit consortium of TV industry players, established broadcast standards that were adopted by the FCC.

Remember how they seriously considered a hybrid system at first? Didn't they have to actually disband that committee to put a stake in its heart?

And remember the guy that came up with, and demo'd, a way of overlaying the signals so both NTSC and ATSC would work with the same signal? A day late, thankfully.

NTSC: Never Twice the Same Color

 

[Brussam]

Remember how they seriously considered a hybrid system at first? Didn't they have to actually disband that committee to put a stake in its heart?

And remember the guy that came up with, and demo'd, a way of overlaying the signals so both NTSC and ATSC would work with the same signal? A day late, thankfully.

NTSC: Never Twice the Same Color

Yes they did try to embed HD inside SD just like they did with Color into B/W to "protect" the citizens investment in existing TVs. But there was no way to do it. Thank goodness or we would would still be on the oldest transmission standard on the planet.

But the push into DTV wasn't just for bandwidth sales. A major driving force was to clear the lower VHF for use by First Responders because VHF signals have more range and penetration. As it was, the changeover was delayed from 2004 to 2007 so the Converter Box rebate could be implemented, a great waste of money. No body got a credit for UHF converter boxes when they came out.

 

[navychop]

Reminds me. I oughta go crank up that converter box to see if it still works.

36" CRT TV with converter box. $50. I pay you. You haul!

:haha it's gotten that bad!

 

[sam_gordon]

No body got a credit for UHF converter boxes when they came out.

There were specific UHF and VHF converter boxes? I don't remember that.

 

[harshness]

Not really. 18gbps vs 10.2gbps. Both are high speed but not the same.

Yes, really. Much as you can wring 10Mbps or 100Mbps out of CAT5 using 10baseT and 100baseT, a cable that passes testing for High Speed HDMI will pass 10.2Gbps using HDMI 1.x and 18Gbps using HDMI 2.0. A different scheme is used to put more data on the very same cable.

 

[harshness]

I don't understand. Haven't locals (the majority of them at least) AND cable/satcos ALL upgraded their equipment to HD?

Yes, and they'll be writing it off for years to come.

 

[harshness]

They see what has happened to the value of their SD catalogs and realize it's best to future proof the content.

Your assuming that broadcasters have libraries of programming. I sincerely doubt that is the case.

 

[tigerfan33]

Yes, really. Much as you can wring 10Mbps or 100Mbps out of CAT5 using 10baseT and 100baseT, a cable that passes testing for High Speed HDMI will pass 10.2Gbps using HDMI 1.x and 18Gbps using HDMI 2.0. A different scheme is used to put more data on the very same cable.

Setup a 4K projector with Roku 4 or a forth coming uhd blu Ray player and then come back and post

 

[Hall]

36" CRT TV with converter box. $50. I pay you. You haul!

:haha it's gotten that bad!

People post old CRTs for sale on local Facebook garage sale pages all the time and I never see any takers. If they're 27" and smaller, the garbage collectors will take them. Bigger that that, they won't... At least most people are reasonable in the price they ask, $20, $25, and so on. I did just see one a few days ago - 32" and the guy wanted $75 ! I laughed at that and jokingly asked my wife how much a similarly sized LCD goes for, figuring less than $200.